And you are here because of what?Trying to preach a certain dogma about certain religions you have?I bet you probably…
I agree. I am not feeding the troll.
@ammmz The more you argue and counter-argue and go on tangential diatribes, the more you weaken your position and the less likely anyone scrolling down this board is likely to read your post. You made your point, move on. (Didn't I already said this to you? I think I did.)
@Slythe We don't want to make this type of long back and forth posting in this board because then folks wanting to talk about this EXCELLENT show will probably just go somewhere else. So yes, let's not feed the troll !!! :) If you read back, I cut off someone like this earlier because of the same reason. I just said, I made my point, you made yours, let's move on. Its the best attitude you can show. Its classy, mature and just plain civil if you ask me.
(@Slythe I can't wait for Episode 5. I have a feeling my heart will ache a little bit because I am starting to see where this is going. I think we are all thinking Tharn is bad, Type is a poor wounded bad-boy wanna be but in reality I am afraid that Type is using Tharn for his own sexual gratification. Victims of abuse often don't make that connection between sex and love. For them is just something they do, like a chore. So, I am wondering a lot about it and if its going to break my kokoro. Anyway, I don't take credit for this, someone else mentioned it here or on youtube.... )
OK. I will be honest. Some stuff in your posting does not make sense to me. What I get is that you are concerned…
"i'm obviously not preaching to the choir. particularly because your last line is actually incorrect. while men learn these behaviors socially it is not just straight men--men of all sexualities enact their power over women all the time"
Yes you are preaching to the choir when you are talking about consent in a forum which is almost exclusively used by straight women and gay men.
As a gay man I am very supportive of women's rights. I know how I grew up and I am conscious of my behaviors.
"--and they learn that when one is weak (or impaired) they can take advantage of that"
Oh dear. Read that sentence again. You make it sound like gay man have interest in sexually assaulting women who are weak. No, we don't
". assault, rape, control, abuse has no gender but is compounded by gender and its politics via white supremacy, capital, colonialism, you name it we got it. so, yes, all eyes on it matter. and how we interpret it matters. i reject the interpretations that people think acceptable to say. i just wanted one comment to state that in a sea of good comments. if it is something you're unable to understand or cannot handle, that's on you."
Yes, throw the kitchen sink too, maybe Buddhism since we are talking about Thai culture?
I think I get what you are trying to say with that but I also get the sense that at that point you are lost. As a teacher, I can sense when a student has reached the limits of his/her knowledge about a topic and I sense you just got to that line so you threw everything you got and hoped something sticks.
Look, you are not making a terrible argument so just stick to the basics. Yes, power structures built into societies all across this globe do perpetuate misogynous attitudes towards women. But one thing you may not know is that not all societies do this and that change takes time.
You know why I think I like Thai BL? Have you look at its history? Do you know it? Thai BL has its roots in YAOI, which in turns has roots in SHOJO manga. In some sense these genera represent a relief valve through which women in Japan write their own stories, fantasies, and through which they can share their concern, hopes and desires. Whatever you want to say about BL, or Thai BL, you can't deny that almost all these stories were written by women. Thai BL is one of many vehicles that can help move society forward and create change. The change you want to see...
If a women is writing a story that features a (semi?) non-consensual sex act, what does that tell you? I am not going to answer that question for you. I will leave you with that.... I think that this is something you need to consider before you start throwing everything but the kitchen sink at this story and before you start labeling this story as "just anotherBL" showing misogyny, etc.
edit: i literally wrote one thing and critiqued it. you cannot be that upset over me stating an opinion on this…
"please grow up and stop replying to me telling me why you think rape is okay. thanks."
No one said "rape is ok". Don't try to use false equivalents yourself.
You said this: "it's not great but what bl rly is."
That comment made me think you don't like BL.
You are not the first person to come here and criticize this show for the issues it has with consent (or rather the issues you have with how consent is handled in this show).
I will tell you what I told the last person who kept insisting on this: I have my opinion, you have yours. We expressed it. Let's move on.
I agree that your comment could use some editing, it is quiet long but I did read it.I think I get your main point,…
I don't know man, I can tell you that if my husband was acting in an intimate scene, I rather it be with a girl than a guy. So if I was a women and my straight boyfriend/husband had to act in an intimate scene, I rather it be with a man, no? :P
edit: i literally wrote one thing and critiqued it. you cannot be that upset over me stating an opinion on this…
OK. I will be honest. Some stuff in your posting does not make sense to me. What I get is that you are concerned about how consent is depicted in this show (it also sounds like you are not a fan of BL which makes me wonder, why are you here again?).
Anytime someone has to claim moral or intellectual superiority over an issue, it usually indicates a problem. If you can't articulate what's wrong with something then, well just don't.
I am neither stupid, nor ignorant of implied or explicit consent. I know what's wrong with this show, heck with this genera but I still watch. You know why? Because, regardless of what you think, this kind of show is actually a GOOD THING. You see, I am gay. I can't find this kinds of stories in mainstream American TV. I like how these stories normalize gay relationship and gay love so that the younger generation can see that love is just love. And I like how they give me different love stories that are romantic, or that are pure fantasy; Fantasies that I can't have in mainstream TV. Its funny to me, because a lot of this complaints about consent keep coming from women. Yet, they don't complain about the misogyny in Thai BL. Go figure. I think misogyny and homophobia in Thai BL make me more uncomfortable than the few times I have seen an obvious violation of consent.
Many women seem to love SOTUS. I rather have a gritty, sexually tantalizing show that pushes the envelops and dares us to think about the grey line between implied and explicit consent, than a rosy, fluffy, cheesy show about two castrated guys who fall in love.
Most of us who watch TharnType do not learn about informed consent from TV. Moreover, since women and gay man are about the only people watching it, I am not sure that much is lost by having scenes like this. Straight men, who perpetrate most of the consent violations, do not watch Thai BL.
Very true...there are maby edges of BL WORLD or we can say LGBT which this real world need to know. These queer…
I should have added White and Captain to that list of honest and sweet, but Captain lately barely smiles so I don't know if he is a sweet as he used to be back in the LS days. White is as handsome as ever but I am biased because I have a thing for White. He flashes a smile and my heart skips a beat ;) But yeah, I do think he is a nice and sweet guy but it could be biased.
Very true...there are maby edges of BL WORLD or we can say LGBT which this real world need to know. These queer…
You know, its interesting but I don't ship any couples current or otherwise...
Perhaps the closest I have ever come to shipping is that I do actually believe the rumors surrounding the OhmToey affair. Or perhaps is just me wishing that Ohm and Toey were gay for real, since they are two very attractive guys. Well, Toey was very cute back in the day and Ohm was awkwardly cute but he turned out to be a really handsome man.
A lot of people ship OffGun as a real couple and I don't know. I would love if it was true but I don't care either way. I see Off as someone who knows how to monetize his fame and Gun as someone who can act so well that I just don't believe him at all. He is too good of an actor and I think people forget that. Now, I am not saying anything bad against him... He is a nice guy and may well be the sweetest guy ever but my impression is he knows how to use his charms...
The only guys that come off as being super honest and sweet (in my eyes) are Gunsmile, Sing, and Tay (New too, he is just a bit more on the shy side I think). Everyone else in the BL world pretty much knows that if they fake a relationship they can make money out of it...
let's not forget, the actors are at some fault for this too... !!
Who else here wants to see him in his own BL series? I know we all want him with August but I don't care, it could be anyone else. I just think he deserves his own show!
I am fan of BL , but for this what's happening, tharn just smile all the time and type is angry or crying all…
Tharn has shown a range of emotions. Mew as an actor has been rather subtle with his emotions but I think they are there. You can criticize his style of acting and say he is a minimalist when it comes to showing emotions but I think he has shown them...
Type hasn't but I think that's on purpose.
Type is a survivor of sexual abuse so he is going to show a lot less range of emotions for now.
I think that Tharn is going to help him heal. Eventually we should see some emotions from Type as well.
I really like episode 4 and I have many points I have to share. But yes, I am with you when you complain about…
I agree that your comment could use some editing, it is quiet long but I did read it.
I think I get your main point, which is that people should just stop shipping BL actors as a couple and that the BL industry should hire more gay actors to plays these characters. I agree.
I also agree that a "defense" against being "accused" of being gay is that the actor has a "girlfriend". This is annoying mainly because I don't understand why being gay is so bad that it needs "defending". So if you want to "defend" Mew or Gulf against the rumors that they are gay, you should never consider yourselves a supporter of the LGBQT community....
Lastly, I also agree on the outing of girlfriends, it is wrong and people should stop making assumptions. I once saw a video about Ohm Pawat that someone made based on (I think) IG pictures of him and some girl who apparently has been to many of the same places he has. He posted pics side by sides of him and the girl's IG to proof that they are a couple. This made me mad because I think it is disrespectful to the actor. Regardless of if this is just a friend or a girlfriend, it is clear this is someone he is trying to protect, so why out them like that? On IG, I have observed on multiple ocassions that BL actors often make sure their friends accounts are private and I am pretty sure many actors have 2 accounts. They want and need their privacy but for some reason some fans think they are public property. I don't know who is worst the Thai fans or us, but I think they can both be bad.
Anyway, my 2c. I guess my post turn out pretty long too, didn't it :)
Its a term from Japanese manga, just like the terms seme and uke. A tsundere is a character who is cold in the beginning but then becomes warm and nice later... Think of Boys Over Flowers or Itazura Na Kiss...
Anyway, many people have described Arthit in SOTUS as being a tsundere. However, in many Thai BLs, the real tension arises not from a cold leading man but from a love-hate relationship just as you described.
IDK I think if there is a tsundere in this show, it probably would be Tharn and not Type but it all depends on how you analyze it. Type is not cold but he shows only one emotion: hate. Type has no "warm side". Even by Episode 4, I don't feel like we have seen a warm/touchy/feely side to Type. In that sense, if we do eventually see a warm and emotional Type, he too is a Tsundere.
Ohhhh, and the episodes on TVLine has more than 5 million views!!!
As of last night, Episode 4 on LineTV had about 400k views and on youtube it has about the same number of views. So close to 800k views for Episode 4.
There are multiple videos of ep 4 on youtube so its hard to know the real total but this show could definitively become a record breaker for this year.
I agree.At first it was really bugging me, but now that Type has accepted the intimacy with Tharn and is no longer…
My 2 cents: Type had a different kind of sex with his abuser than what he is having with Tharn. This is why it is easy for him.
The show is not making a distinction and it bothers me a little but I think it is at least not making it look like all gays are pedophiles. It may have taken one step back but it took a couple of giant leaps forward.
1 
@ammmz The more you argue and counter-argue and go on tangential diatribes, the more you weaken your position and the less likely anyone scrolling down this board is likely to read your post. You made your point, move on. (Didn't I already said this to you? I think I did.)
@Slythe We don't want to make this type of long back and forth posting in this board because then folks wanting to talk about this EXCELLENT show will probably just go somewhere else. So yes, let's not feed the troll !!! :) If you read back, I cut off someone like this earlier because of the same reason. I just said, I made my point, you made yours, let's move on. Its the best attitude you can show. Its classy, mature and just plain civil if you ask me.
(@Slythe I can't wait for Episode 5. I have a feeling my heart will ache a little bit because I am starting to see where this is going. I think we are all thinking Tharn is bad, Type is a poor wounded bad-boy wanna be but in reality I am afraid that Type is using Tharn for his own sexual gratification. Victims of abuse often don't make that connection between sex and love. For them is just something they do, like a chore. So, I am wondering a lot about it and if its going to break my kokoro. Anyway, I don't take credit for this, someone else mentioned it here or on youtube.... )
Yes you are preaching to the choir when you are talking about consent in a forum which is almost exclusively used by straight women and gay men.
As a gay man I am very supportive of women's rights. I know how I grew up and I am conscious of my behaviors.
"--and they learn that when one is weak (or impaired) they can take advantage of that"
Oh dear. Read that sentence again. You make it sound like gay man have interest in sexually assaulting women who are weak. No, we don't
". assault, rape, control, abuse has no gender but is compounded by gender and its politics via white supremacy, capital, colonialism, you name it we got it. so, yes, all eyes on it matter. and how we interpret it matters. i reject the interpretations that people think acceptable to say. i just wanted one comment to state that in a sea of good comments. if it is something you're unable to understand or cannot handle, that's on you."
Yes, throw the kitchen sink too, maybe Buddhism since we are talking about Thai culture?
I think I get what you are trying to say with that but I also get the sense that at that point you are lost. As a teacher, I can sense when a student has reached the limits of his/her knowledge about a topic and I sense you just got to that line so you threw everything you got and hoped something sticks.
Look, you are not making a terrible argument so just stick to the basics. Yes, power structures built into societies all across this globe do perpetuate misogynous attitudes towards women. But one thing you may not know is that not all societies do this and that change takes time.
You know why I think I like Thai BL? Have you look at its history? Do you know it? Thai BL has its roots in YAOI, which in turns has roots in SHOJO manga. In some sense these genera represent a relief valve through which women in Japan write their own stories, fantasies, and through which they can share their concern, hopes and desires. Whatever you want to say about BL, or Thai BL, you can't deny that almost all these stories were written by women. Thai BL is one of many vehicles that can help move society forward and create change. The change you want to see...
If a women is writing a story that features a (semi?) non-consensual sex act, what does that tell you? I am not going to answer that question for you. I will leave you with that.... I think that this is something you need to consider before you start throwing everything but the kitchen sink at this story and before you start labeling this story as "just anotherBL" showing misogyny, etc.
No one said "rape is ok". Don't try to use false equivalents yourself.
You said this: "it's not great but what bl rly is."
That comment made me think you don't like BL.
You are not the first person to come here and criticize this show for the issues it has with consent (or rather the issues you have with how consent is handled in this show).
I will tell you what I told the last person who kept insisting on this: I have my opinion, you have yours. We expressed it. Let's move on.
Anytime someone has to claim moral or intellectual superiority over an issue, it usually indicates a problem. If you can't articulate what's wrong with something then, well just don't.
I am neither stupid, nor ignorant of implied or explicit consent. I know what's wrong with this show, heck with this genera but I still watch. You know why? Because, regardless of what you think, this kind of show is actually a GOOD THING. You see, I am gay. I can't find this kinds of stories in mainstream American TV. I like how these stories normalize gay relationship and gay love so that the younger generation can see that love is just love. And I like how they give me different love stories that are romantic, or that are pure fantasy; Fantasies that I can't have in mainstream TV. Its funny to me, because a lot of this complaints about consent keep coming from women. Yet, they don't complain about the misogyny in Thai BL. Go figure. I think misogyny and homophobia in Thai BL make me more uncomfortable than the few times I have seen an obvious violation of consent.
Many women seem to love SOTUS. I rather have a gritty, sexually tantalizing show that pushes the envelops and dares us to think about the grey line between implied and explicit consent, than a rosy, fluffy, cheesy show about two castrated guys who fall in love.
Most of us who watch TharnType do not learn about informed consent from TV. Moreover, since women and gay man are about the only people watching it, I am not sure that much is lost by having scenes like this. Straight men, who perpetrate most of the consent violations, do not watch Thai BL.
So I think you are just preaching to the choir.
Perhaps the closest I have ever come to shipping is that I do actually believe the rumors surrounding the OhmToey affair. Or perhaps is just me wishing that Ohm and Toey were gay for real, since they are two very attractive guys. Well, Toey was very cute back in the day and Ohm was awkwardly cute but he turned out to be a really handsome man.
A lot of people ship OffGun as a real couple and I don't know. I would love if it was true but I don't care either way. I see Off as someone who knows how to monetize his fame and Gun as someone who can act so well that I just don't believe him at all. He is too good of an actor and I think people forget that. Now, I am not saying anything bad against him... He is a nice guy and may well be the sweetest guy ever but my impression is he knows how to use his charms...
The only guys that come off as being super honest and sweet (in my eyes) are Gunsmile, Sing, and Tay (New too, he is just a bit more on the shy side I think). Everyone else in the BL world pretty much knows that if they fake a relationship they can make money out of it...
let's not forget, the actors are at some fault for this too... !!
Type hasn't but I think that's on purpose.
Type is a survivor of sexual abuse so he is going to show a lot less range of emotions for now.
I think that Tharn is going to help him heal. Eventually we should see some emotions from Type as well.
I think I get your main point, which is that people should just stop shipping BL actors as a couple and that the BL industry should hire more gay actors to plays these characters. I agree.
I also agree that a "defense" against being "accused" of being gay is that the actor has a "girlfriend". This is annoying mainly because I don't understand why being gay is so bad that it needs "defending". So if you want to "defend" Mew or Gulf against the rumors that they are gay, you should never consider yourselves a supporter of the LGBQT community....
Lastly, I also agree on the outing of girlfriends, it is wrong and people should stop making assumptions. I once saw a video about Ohm Pawat that someone made based on (I think) IG pictures of him and some girl who apparently has been to many of the same places he has. He posted pics side by sides of him and the girl's IG to proof that they are a couple. This made me mad because I think it is disrespectful to the actor. Regardless of if this is just a friend or a girlfriend, it is clear this is someone he is trying to protect, so why out them like that? On IG, I have observed on multiple ocassions that BL actors often make sure their friends accounts are private and I am pretty sure many actors have 2 accounts. They want and need their privacy but for some reason some fans think they are public property. I don't know who is worst the Thai fans or us, but I think they can both be bad.
Anyway, my 2c. I guess my post turn out pretty long too, didn't it :)
Anyway, many people have described Arthit in SOTUS as being a tsundere. However, in many Thai BLs, the real tension arises not from a cold leading man but from a love-hate relationship just as you described.
IDK I think if there is a tsundere in this show, it probably would be Tharn and not Type but it all depends on how you analyze it. Type is not cold but he shows only one emotion: hate. Type has no "warm side". Even by Episode 4, I don't feel like we have seen a warm/touchy/feely side to Type. In that sense, if we do eventually see a warm and emotional Type, he too is a Tsundere.
There are multiple videos of ep 4 on youtube so its hard to know the real total but this show could definitively become a record breaker for this year.
The show is not making a distinction and it bothers me a little but I think it is at least not making it look like all gays are pedophiles. It may have taken one step back but it took a couple of giant leaps forward.