It makes a lot of sense to me in a point where they showed us how Type is basically burning for desire right now...…
Let's be clear. Type is not "understandably terrified of gays". Rape is not about sexual attraction, it is about POWER and dominance. His fear is unfounded.
I posted elsewhere about this but I actually have first hand experience with this issue. I dated a guy that was abused as a child. Long story short, I can assure you that abuse survivors are conflicted about their sexual desires. On one hand, they want to have sex, on the other hand they feel dirty and they sometimes have flashbacks to their abuse (like Type did when Tharn hugged him). It is a mess. I don't wish this inferno on anyone. It is sad as hell.
Anyway, I would say that I agree that they have put that aside. However, none of the events that have happened so far are impossible. Unlikely maybe, but not impossible. Type is gay. He will want to explore that too. What will drive him to experiment is his desire and this will override any trauma he had, for now.
Believe it or not, it also has to do with what role they played when they were abused. So for him, oral sex could be perfectly ok. It may not be something he did with his abuser so he may not have flashbacks or feel dirty about it. Usually the flashback thing is very specific to trigger words, trigger objects, and yes, positions, etc. I would imagine that sex itself could be another issue for him.
So I think so far they have done a pretty good job. Good, not perfect. They need to address this issue or else this show won't have any re-watch value for me! Like many ppl here, I am waiting for them to address this issue!
Damn, many people in this comment section cannot distinguish certain facts.I would like to bring down some points…
I agree with many of the things you say here. I wish I could write a post about the differences between how gay relationships are portrayed in BL shows and real life.
We have been given PLENTY OF HINTS that Type likes Tharn. I will give the nay sayers one simple piece of evidence. TWICE, not once, but TWICE (and maybe more?) Type had the opportunity to switch rooms and he said NO. Not only that, but the director and the actor both made sure that we get to see this look on Type's face that clearly shows that he is conflicted.
Another hint is that we don't know if Type has imagined many of those scenes were Tharn kisses him at night. In fact, some have said that what we have seen in the shower scene could be an erotic dream that Type is having.
I think the shower scene represents the culmination of the sexual tension between them.
i don't want to be too graphic, but I also want to point out to the women here screaming rape, that unlike you guys, men get what we call an erection which means that for Tharn to go down on Type, Type has to have been a willing participant. Now, I know, some may say that a man can still be raped because the body responds, and blah blah, but this does not apply here (I can say why on another post, if someone want to know what the heck I am talking about).
So, anyway, at this point let's throw the "the shower scene is rape" down the trash bin and discuss why Type did in fact want to have sex with Tharn. Could it be a dream? Yes. Did the author overlook her own subplot about child abuse? Maybe, but it is too early to know.
Can someone harboring childhood trauma be attracted to someone like Tharn? Hmm, yes. yes. 100% yes. Is it healthy? Oh, IDK, that is another question.
Iam from Puerto Rico and I can't wait to see this series. I saw the trailer and just got hook with the script…
Hey, i am from PR too! Now I live in the us mainland but I was born and raised in PR!
I am also awaiting this with a lot of anticipation! I even got teary eyed while watching the trailer.
Did you notice towards the end a couple of familiar faces from other Thai Lakorns and movies? The one guy who was the dad in Love of Siam is going to be on this and I think the girl who played a minor character in Love Sick is also on this!!!
Anyway, saludos! I am going to send you a friend request or whatever the equivalent is on MDL. :) We are a minority!
You and your policly correct friends don't understand humans mind, inteligent , humor and how the world really…
OMG I was thinking that Tharn is like Brian! In fact, when Tharn goes down on Type, the whole way that was filmed remind me so much of that first scene in the american QAF when we meet Brian and some guy is giving him head!!!
I was thinking that this will dethrone LBC and MIR as the QAF of the BL world :) Yes, I consider some scenes of MIR to be VERY reminiscent of QAF too....
It is true that BL dramas have a HUGE problem with the concept of consent. Majority of them have a message "if…
My point is that other shows and other genres don't do it any better.
Disney shows are notorious for portraying women as damsels in distress that need saving. BL does the same exact thing with boys.
Disney shows portray boys who pursue girls who initially don't show interest in them. Same here.
I am not talking about other shows. I am simply drawing comparisons.
You do have the right to complain about it here. By no means was I encroaching on your rights to do so. I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of decrying the portrayal of sexual violence in this show while not decrying it in others or, and this is one thing I have said elsewhere here, not decrying the blatant sexism and racism that exist within Thai BL . I am not saying it shouldn't be criticized but I can't help to roll my eyes here thinking, so now you complain?
Sorry, I am sure you are a fellow BL lover and I don't want to come off the wrong way. :) Let's just agree to disagree ! Let me keep watching and enjoying this show! You are welcome to stay and see how I, and others, end up feeling about this show when its all said and done. Maybe I will change my mind.
BTW This issue is important to talk about as you pointed out. It is not just common in Thai BL but it is was has always turned me off about the original BL from Japan. When I first watched Love of Siam, no one was talking about Thai BL. Back then few people considered the movie BL. I watched a Yaoi-based movie and couldn't even finish it. It was terrible. I watched a Japanese gay-themed movie, that I now know is considred Yaoi, and I liked it but I wasn't crazy about it. Then one day, after watching a couple of doramas (J-dramas) on Netflix, and having TRIED to watch Underwear and Hormones (I didn't like them), my Netflix "suggested" I watch I show called Lovesick: The Series. The rest, like they say, is history. I fell in love with the show. I am here because of Lovesick. That's the kind of BL I like. No violence, very little sex... Romantic, like my j-dramas. :) Just wanted to point that out!!!
Following your example, so when someone tickles you, you stay there laughing without moving?! Now that's an odd…
Well, here I get where you are coming from and I agree with part of your statement BUT keep in mind that you are actually incorrect in that some rape victims react to a repeated assault by disconnecting themselves from reality, going to a safe place in their mind, etc. So the issue of first putting resistance, then not putting resistance is not that unrealistic.
Is Tharn an aggressor? Maybe. Is Type still playing the victim role here or is he playing with Tharn? That is possible.
This is why I say I can't judge yet until I see the entire show. We can't judge a character by his actions or reactions without knowing what else is going on. I feel like we only have a slice of their story....
You and your policly correct friends don't understand humans mind, inteligent , humor and how the world really…
I should add, just in case you are thinking about it @whathever2, that depictions of men raping other men should not have a negative effect in men's attitudes about women BECAUSE we know that the effect of women watching violence against them is neither positive nor negative. So we can make the assumption that for heterosexual men (and some homosexual men, and yes it would depend on whether they are mostly tops or bottoms) watching violence in BL has 0 effect.
About the only group that this could have a negative effect would be a small subset of the beefy tops (semes) who watch this. So, you would have to be gay, a top, and someone who can't differentiate fantasy from reality and who believes this is somehow based in real life. An abysmal small number would be my guess.
BTW As I am sure you know, a lot of this BL stories are written by women and as a GAY men I CAN TELL. I know they are a women's version of gay relationships but that's another post....
You and your policly correct friends don't understand humans mind, inteligent , humor and how the world really…
@whatever2 Let's deconstruct your argument and then create some counter arguments, from a couple of different angles:
First, let's be clear that what you are arguing FOR is what we call censure. We already have to put up with Thai censors, so I am not sure what we need is more censorship. Besides, at the very core of your argument is whether it is ethical to censure ART. (Keep in mind how it looks from the other side. BL would have no place if censors would have acted on their impulse of forbidding the transmission of homoerotic material)
Second, the evidence to which you point out is NOT conclusive. One study does not make an argument by itself.
Third, the dots you try to connect, that the representation of rape in BL equates the representation of violence against women in mass media is a logical fallacy. The violence/rape depicted here is a man against another man. Thus, you can't say that it has the same effects in viewers as violence against women. You may think I am being picky, but this is actually nontrivial because depictions of certain stereotypes serve to reinforce them. The media doesn't usually create these stereotypes but serves to reinforce them.
Fourth, (geeez, I should not count them but oh well), the biggest problem with consent and date rape is the objectification of women. Here, media seems to play a role but interestingly, even watching sports is associated with higher objectification of women. (see https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-22934-001). I suspect this has to do with more what people watch and their attitudes than the effects of what they watch on them (e.g. those who follow more gender conforming roles such as males who watch sports, tend to objectify women).
Lastly, yes I have a nail in the coffin of your theory, BL is targeted to women. Most BL audience is female. Every study I looked at show NO EFFECT of media depiction of dating violence on women's attitudes about it.
Now, I know you will say but what about the 5 straight guys who watch this show? I doubt they will be watching this thinking they can get on and bonk their friends so I will ignore those guys, sorry.
What about the few gay men, like me, who watch this? There is little data on this. My guess is that, just like with heterosexual man, a lot depends on whether the viewer can separate reality from fantasy (This is a Lippincott study but I don't have the link). I am pretty sure that with the very negative experiences we have with straight men, most of us instinctively know this is a fantasy.
So there you go. I think we can safely say that the folks who made this show won't be negatively impacting society with their depictions of violence and rape (if you could call them that because i think personally that what we have seen falls within the grey area. I mean, I kiss my husband all the time while he is sleeping, I don't think that makes me a creep. I also say things to him while he sleeps, like "You are so cute" or "I love you so much". So is that creepy?)
Whew, 3 episodes and we're 800+ comments deep! Usually the fun part about watching currently airing shows is dropping…
hahaha This show is going to be one of those that you either like it or you hate it and I predict it is going to generate a cult following within Thai BL.
So far this show has been way more thought-provoking than Theory of Love. ToL had a top notch supporting cast while this show has an OK supporting cast. The leads here are really delivering in terms of acting, the support cast is "just ok". The story has just enough shades of dark to make it interesting.
Oh at the risk of getting some hate, I like this story so far better than ToL, DBK and Thank God Its Friday (I didn't watch 2M2 or The Effect).
I also like the fast pace here more than I liked He's Coming To Me, which BTW so far wins it all in terms of being the best BL I watched this year. HCTM has just enough fluff to keep you happy and just enough dark stuff to keep you interested. And then there is the fact that you get to see Ohm Pawat kissing Singto.
Following your example, so when someone tickles you, you stay there laughing without moving?! Now that's an odd…
you don't want to know the answer :P
JK
Maybe the issue is I wouldn't say stop... :P
No, I get what you are saying but I think people need to get off their high horses and understand that BL is BL. It has its tropes, it has its defects. For example, what about the fact that Type is supposed to be dark and handsome? Why is it that Thai BL has a lack of diversity in terms of shades of dark and in terms of ethnic groups represented?
Or better yet, should we talk about the issue of gender representation within Thai BL? Why is it that in many Thai BLs women are minor characters, often the villainous, selfish and are usually catty and just in general, very unlikable characters?
You see, this issue with consent, even if it was an issue here which I don't think it is, is just one of many issues. This is a work of fiction, and is a work of art. Art is not required to be illuminating, nor is it supposed to educate us. If someone watches this and thinks it is OK to rape someone in their sleep or try something creepy like brush your roommate's hair or kiss his or her cheek while they sleep, and then they get in trouble, well that is their problem.
When Superman first came out, parents were concerned that kids would try to jump off roofs to try to fly. Ah, this is the same thing. If someone is stupid enough to believe that any of these is real, well then that's a bigger issue. So don't worry about people following in the footsteps of Tharn, it is not going to be a problem.
iv'e seen the last episode already 4 times..it's very good. the scene in the shower made perfectly- the combination…
agreed. I have some issues with the script but the acting here is very good. I really like Gulf a lot. Plus, he is such a looker. I could stare at him for hours :) haha
1 
I posted elsewhere about this but I actually have first hand experience with this issue. I dated a guy that was abused as a child. Long story short, I can assure you that abuse survivors are conflicted about their sexual desires. On one hand, they want to have sex, on the other hand they feel dirty and they sometimes have flashbacks to their abuse (like Type did when Tharn hugged him). It is a mess. I don't wish this inferno on anyone. It is sad as hell.
Anyway, I would say that I agree that they have put that aside. However, none of the events that have happened so far are impossible. Unlikely maybe, but not impossible. Type is gay. He will want to explore that too. What will drive him to experiment is his desire and this will override any trauma he had, for now.
Believe it or not, it also has to do with what role they played when they were abused. So for him, oral sex could be perfectly ok. It may not be something he did with his abuser so he may not have flashbacks or feel dirty about it. Usually the flashback thing is very specific to trigger words, trigger objects, and yes, positions, etc. I would imagine that sex itself could be another issue for him.
So I think so far they have done a pretty good job. Good, not perfect. They need to address this issue or else this show won't have any re-watch value for me! Like many ppl here, I am waiting for them to address this issue!
We have been given PLENTY OF HINTS that Type likes Tharn. I will give the nay sayers one simple piece of evidence. TWICE, not once, but TWICE (and maybe more?) Type had the opportunity to switch rooms and he said NO. Not only that, but the director and the actor both made sure that we get to see this look on Type's face that clearly shows that he is conflicted.
Another hint is that we don't know if Type has imagined many of those scenes were Tharn kisses him at night. In fact, some have said that what we have seen in the shower scene could be an erotic dream that Type is having.
I think the shower scene represents the culmination of the sexual tension between them.
i don't want to be too graphic, but I also want to point out to the women here screaming rape, that unlike you guys, men get what we call an erection which means that for Tharn to go down on Type, Type has to have been a willing participant. Now, I know, some may say that a man can still be raped because the body responds, and blah blah, but this does not apply here (I can say why on another post, if someone want to know what the heck I am talking about).
So, anyway, at this point let's throw the "the shower scene is rape" down the trash bin and discuss why Type did in fact want to have sex with Tharn. Could it be a dream? Yes. Did the author overlook her own subplot about child abuse? Maybe, but it is too early to know.
Can someone harboring childhood trauma be attracted to someone like Tharn? Hmm, yes. yes. 100% yes. Is it healthy? Oh, IDK, that is another question.
Let's just keep watching!!!
I am also awaiting this with a lot of anticipation! I even got teary eyed while watching the trailer.
Did you notice towards the end a couple of familiar faces from other Thai Lakorns and movies? The one guy who was the dad in Love of Siam is going to be on this and I think the girl who played a minor character in Love Sick is also on this!!!
Anyway, saludos! I am going to send you a friend request or whatever the equivalent is on MDL. :) We are a minority!
I was thinking that this will dethrone LBC and MIR as the QAF of the BL world :) Yes, I consider some scenes of MIR to be VERY reminiscent of QAF too....
Disney shows are notorious for portraying women as damsels in distress that need saving. BL does the same exact thing with boys.
Disney shows portray boys who pursue girls who initially don't show interest in them. Same here.
I am not talking about other shows. I am simply drawing comparisons.
You do have the right to complain about it here. By no means was I encroaching on your rights to do so. I merely pointed out the hypocrisy of decrying the portrayal of sexual violence in this show while not decrying it in others or, and this is one thing I have said elsewhere here, not decrying the blatant sexism and racism that exist within Thai BL . I am not saying it shouldn't be criticized but I can't help to roll my eyes here thinking, so now you complain?
Sorry, I am sure you are a fellow BL lover and I don't want to come off the wrong way. :) Let's just agree to disagree ! Let me keep watching and enjoying this show! You are welcome to stay and see how I, and others, end up feeling about this show when its all said and done. Maybe I will change my mind.
BTW This issue is important to talk about as you pointed out. It is not just common in Thai BL but it is was has always turned me off about the original BL from Japan. When I first watched Love of Siam, no one was talking about Thai BL. Back then few people considered the movie BL. I watched a Yaoi-based movie and couldn't even finish it. It was terrible. I watched a Japanese gay-themed movie, that I now know is considred Yaoi, and I liked it but I wasn't crazy about it. Then one day, after watching a couple of doramas (J-dramas) on Netflix, and having TRIED to watch Underwear and Hormones (I didn't like them), my Netflix "suggested" I watch I show called Lovesick: The Series. The rest, like they say, is history. I fell in love with the show. I am here because of Lovesick. That's the kind of BL I like. No violence, very little sex... Romantic, like my j-dramas. :) Just wanted to point that out!!!
Is Tharn an aggressor? Maybe. Is Type still playing the victim role here or is he playing with Tharn? That is possible.
This is why I say I can't judge yet until I see the entire show. We can't judge a character by his actions or reactions without knowing what else is going on. I feel like we only have a slice of their story....
Heck, have you ever watch a Disney show? You know the ones where the boys are fighting over who gets the girl, because the girl doesn't choose...
This issue runs deeper than Thai BL. Criticizing this show for this is hypocritical :(
Sorry, I don't share your views on this.
I didn't find anything wrong with his acting in Love sick or SOTUS. I think his character in SOTUS was not great but I think his acting was good...
BTW Have you heard him sing? He has a really nice voice. Youtube "Gunsmile Passed"
About the only group that this could have a negative effect would be a small subset of the beefy tops (semes) who watch this. So, you would have to be gay, a top, and someone who can't differentiate fantasy from reality and who believes this is somehow based in real life. An abysmal small number would be my guess.
BTW As I am sure you know, a lot of this BL stories are written by women and as a GAY men I CAN TELL. I know they are a women's version of gay relationships but that's another post....
First, let's be clear that what you are arguing FOR is what we call censure. We already have to put up with Thai censors, so I am not sure what we need is more censorship. Besides, at the very core of your argument is whether it is ethical to censure ART. (Keep in mind how it looks from the other side. BL would have no place if censors would have acted on their impulse of forbidding the transmission of homoerotic material)
Second, the evidence to which you point out is NOT conclusive. One study does not make an argument by itself.
Third, the dots you try to connect, that the representation of rape in BL equates the representation of violence against women in mass media is a logical fallacy. The violence/rape depicted here is a man against another man. Thus, you can't say that it has the same effects in viewers as violence against women. You may think I am being picky, but this is actually nontrivial because depictions of certain stereotypes serve to reinforce them. The media doesn't usually create these stereotypes but serves to reinforce them.
Fourth, (geeez, I should not count them but oh well), the biggest problem with consent and date rape is the objectification of women. Here, media seems to play a role but interestingly, even watching sports is associated with higher objectification of women. (see https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-22934-001). I suspect this has to do with more what people watch and their attitudes than the effects of what they watch on them (e.g. those who follow more gender conforming roles such as males who watch sports, tend to objectify women).
Fifth, most studies show a link between sexually explicit media (which I don't think this qualifies, but I am no social scientist) and attitudes about dating violence (see https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1524838017717745?casa_token=E_o0Yk2wypYAAAAA%3Az3Dk9ElFLurjTeFErLb8BVMfKtV4iW1VJjVvpzsPxmara1zTdx9skSj9PIDVKPLl-44RW-jPdj8O4Hk). These studies however, and I can't reiterate this enough, are mostly looking at heteronormative and heterosexual partners.
Lastly, yes I have a nail in the coffin of your theory, BL is targeted to women. Most BL audience is female. Every study I looked at show NO EFFECT of media depiction of dating violence on women's attitudes about it.
Now, I know you will say but what about the 5 straight guys who watch this show? I doubt they will be watching this thinking they can get on and bonk their friends so I will ignore those guys, sorry.
What about the few gay men, like me, who watch this? There is little data on this. My guess is that, just like with heterosexual man, a lot depends on whether the viewer can separate reality from fantasy (This is a Lippincott study but I don't have the link). I am pretty sure that with the very negative experiences we have with straight men, most of us instinctively know this is a fantasy.
So there you go. I think we can safely say that the folks who made this show won't be negatively impacting society with their depictions of violence and rape (if you could call them that because i think personally that what we have seen falls within the grey area. I mean, I kiss my husband all the time while he is sleeping, I don't think that makes me a creep. I also say things to him while he sleeps, like "You are so cute" or "I love you so much". So is that creepy?)
So far this show has been way more thought-provoking than Theory of Love. ToL had a top notch supporting cast while this show has an OK supporting cast. The leads here are really delivering in terms of acting, the support cast is "just ok". The story has just enough shades of dark to make it interesting.
Oh at the risk of getting some hate, I like this story so far better than ToL, DBK and Thank God Its Friday (I didn't watch 2M2 or The Effect).
I also like the fast pace here more than I liked He's Coming To Me, which BTW so far wins it all in terms of being the best BL I watched this year. HCTM has just enough fluff to keep you happy and just enough dark stuff to keep you interested. And then there is the fact that you get to see Ohm Pawat kissing Singto.
JK
Maybe the issue is I wouldn't say stop... :P
No, I get what you are saying but I think people need to get off their high horses and understand that BL is BL. It has its tropes, it has its defects. For example, what about the fact that Type is supposed to be dark and handsome? Why is it that Thai BL has a lack of diversity in terms of shades of dark and in terms of ethnic groups represented?
Or better yet, should we talk about the issue of gender representation within Thai BL? Why is it that in many Thai BLs women are minor characters, often the villainous, selfish and are usually catty and just in general, very unlikable characters?
You see, this issue with consent, even if it was an issue here which I don't think it is, is just one of many issues. This is a work of fiction, and is a work of art. Art is not required to be illuminating, nor is it supposed to educate us. If someone watches this and thinks it is OK to rape someone in their sleep or try something creepy like brush your roommate's hair or kiss his or her cheek while they sleep, and then they get in trouble, well that is their problem.
When Superman first came out, parents were concerned that kids would try to jump off roofs to try to fly. Ah, this is the same thing. If someone is stupid enough to believe that any of these is real, well then that's a bigger issue. So don't worry about people following in the footsteps of Tharn, it is not going to be a problem.