Honglou Meng

Do people here really do that? That's just insanely stupid. But then, I've been here long enough to know that people here would rather attack you personally than engage with your ideas. Don't let such idiots get to you.

I'm not sure why one *must* read the source material, though? I haven't! Plus, there is no obligation for any drama to follow the source material closely or even loosely!

I think the important point about both their characters is that gender and sexuality are both dependent on each other, and therefore define each other. For Mishima, one is stable, and the other is therefore fixed. For Kirino, one is unstable, and therefore the other is as yet undefined. Though I think Kirino *does* use the word gay in Ep. 2, but that comes before he uses the word 'atashi'. I think the complications and the local connotations are what make the show interesting.

The whole tone of the episode, and of the series itself, is all over the place. What was with the camp telenovela music at the beginning of the show with Yanagida? I half expected an angry mother-in-law to step in and poison someone. Yet, at the end of the same episode, did they really go *there*?

And what's with all the old men -- every man in the show, in fact -- lusting after a young boy just because he wears a (bad) wig, and puts some make-up on? (Just being facetious: I know Mishima does not wear a wig.)

Also, is this the same school as the first episode? Yumeno now goes around shouting homophobic abuse, and no one in the school cares? The bullying has stopped? They are really okay with Mishima & Kirino becoming that close? And while we are at it, are we still in the 1960s, with its Freudian psychosexual description of homosexuality as coming from an absent father and an overbearing (or overaffectionate) mother? I thought that went out with Hitchcock!

Don't get me wrong, I still love this show. But it seems to be caught between wanting to be faithful to the choppy aesthetics of a manga, and the desire to do something more realistic and poignant with the material. The result is a bit odd, to say the least.

As I suspected (see previous comments below), Mishima does not identify as a woman, but as a gay man. He just likes dressing in women's clothes, and wearing his hair like a woman. Kirino, on the other hand, does identify as one. He in fact says he wants to go to Thailand in order to come back as a woman, which speaks to the near impossibility of getting gender-affirming care in Japan (then & now), and the relative haven that Thailand offers.

Both of these were anticipated by the careful use of Japanese pronouns: Mishima uses only 'ore' or 'boku' (both for men), while Kirino now uses 'atashi' (only used by women), at least with Mishima. But now, it is more or less explicitly stated. It was heartwarming to see them discuss the spectrum of gender identity and sexuality between cross-dressing and reassignment, and the possibilities in between.

For a trans person, I can only imagine how affirming it must be to see themselves represented with nuance -- which is rare in Japan. I remember being young and desperate to see even coded representations of homosexuality, if not explicit declarations of it. I imagine trans people feel the same, and hope they feel seen (though if there is anything wrong or inadequate with this portrayal, I'm willing to listen and learn).

Some thoughts on the episode as a whole:

Just finished the fourth episode. Some thoughts, first on gender identity & sexuality:

This is one of the worst things ever... and not just on TV.

I hear you, he has a rare screen presence that is commanding. He deserves better than this!

Haha, I wouldn't have taken it as a shade. I just don't think there is any chemistry between them. I don't understand why someone like Pond should fall for Earth, whether physically or psychologically, and why any casting director in his or her right mind think, "yeah, it works!" It gives me the same feeling as both pairings in UWMA, which is of a sad pixie hugging a hot lamppost. (And I love pixies!)

It would help if Earth stepped out of his comfort zone, and a good director forced him to act as someone different from the person he always plays in all the BLs -- a hapless maiden with no agency who just makes silly expressions and is pursued. But it seems as if, as a friend said, the series is built around Earth (who had a role in the casting), than around a story. And who wouldn't want to choose Pond as their partner?

On the first point, Honglou Meng is perhaps my favourite book in the whole world. I wish everyone in the world would read it.

On your second point: it was at the beginning of my BL journey. KinnPorsche was my first -- and though I would not now disdain to see it -- it meant a lot to me then. (And yes, I was very, very depressed when I watched KP 😅.) So, I then went on a tour of Thai BLs based on what people recommended here and on Reddit. Big mistake. Fortunately, I discovered JBLs not long afterwards, and I haven't looked back much since then. (If I view a Thai BL these days, it is just as grist to my amusing-review mill.)

I haven't seen the show (and doubt I will). But this review made me laugh out loud. Well done! 👏

Oh, him! I suffered through Only Friends -- which, along with A Shoulder To Cry On & Not Me, have had the distinct honour of making me want to quit BL forever -- just for him, and his deliciously evil character. Until, of course, they decided they needed to redeem him in the stupidest way possible. (The character was called Boston, I think? Though he might have well been called Bethesda, MD.) Urgh, I want that time back!

Well, the rating here stands at 8.1. That should have been your first clue! 😅

Pond is very handsome, and I would love to see him in something good. But who is Neo? I can't see him on the cast list?

10 minutes or less per week, spread out over 7 weeks? It is a lot to ask of the audience, esp. when the plot and characterisation are wafer-thin.

I'm surprised you even gave this one a try!

In the voice of Betty Davis: "All goals should be vacuous." :)

To be fair to you, being gay was never the problem. Society is the problem. If society hadn't/wouldn't impose a particular notion of normality and righteousness, and punish those who didn't follow it by ostracism or worse, we wouldn't still pursue those paths to normality -- which means self-denial, and pretending to be straight. It is ruinous for us, and often, ruinous for others.

Yet, your last paragraph moved me to tears. Your path might have been laid with thorns, and you might have had no choice but to walk it, but if it led you to a valley of roses, who could say the journey itself has been in vain?

Awww... thanks! But the thought was entirely yours! I just embellished it, not least because it didn't occur to me, until you pointed it out, that the whole plot with Rinka was superfluous. (I liked Rinka, which blinded me to this fact.)

Have any of you read the manga? If so, how closely does the show adhere to it?

Actually, fair point. The whole gambit added nothing to the story, even though I liked it. And in a JBL, where the episodes are short, and every second precious, it is like wasting water in the middle of a drought.