Kate

I've been doing some thinking and I feel like Lee Tae and Yoo Jung (both as a couple and individuals) are an idealistic version to Gye Won and Queen Dowager, who are more "realistic" in the presentation.

Yoo Jung and Gye Won are quite alike. For both of them their primary motivation is the people/country. Yoo Jung is more idealistic as in she still thinks all things can be solved by negotiation, but that's because she never came across someone she thought to be completely gone. On the other hand Gye Won did - the tyrant king - he was in fact someone impossible to negotiate, as any signs of defiance were met with execution. That's why, even tho Yoo Jung sees Gye Won is not completely wrong in him trying to keep the royal power in check, she cannot trust him, because he did in fact commit acts she cannot see herself doing.

What's more - both know when to stop and put their personal feelings aside. Gye Won was willing to support Yoo Jung the moment she showed she is worthy of ruling (by caring about her people more than herself), he stopped fighting against her, but rather worked with her, negotiating moves and allowing her to make decisions for herself. Later he was willing to retire and allow Lee Tae to slowly gain more royal power as he rules the country with Yoo Jung as his queen. Yoo Jung was willing to give up her revenge if it meant saving her people. Countless times she put her own needs aside.

Then we have Lee Tae and Queen Dowager. Again, same egocentric motivations. Lee Tae wants unlimited power for himself with no care if in the process innocent people die or the country will be in danger (and don't even try to tell me he does care coz he protected Yoo Jung people. The only reason he did was because they were her people, and he knew if they died because of his ploy it would be it for their relationship. He did not care about anyone who was no directly related to her), Queen Dowager wanted Gye Won's love, she wanted him to put her as his priority, before his family and the country he serves. She was willing to kill innocent and put the country in danger just to serve he personal revenge.

And then the romances. Both Lee Tae and Queen Dowager were willing to tweak their plans to protect their loved ones. But the moment they truly started to become threat to their plans, they did tell them they will also be their enemies and be eliminated.

Then both Yoo Jung and Gye Won tried to reason with their lovers, tried to explain to them how their actions are wrong, but the moment they saw how Lee Tae's and Queen Dowager's actions are crossing the line, they did decide to stop them. And again, Yoo Jung went more idealistic way - she still hoped that she can change Lee Tae, as she saw the good sides of him. Her plan of stopping Lee Tae was focused on slightly limiting his power at that given moment, to give her more time to reason with him. While Gye Won went more realistic - Queen Dowager is fixated on her plan, she will never stop, she is too far gone. The only way of stopping her is striping her of all the power she has.

I love him too, but it makes sense for him to die by the end. I just hope he will achieve his goal by scarifying his life, and he will get that noble king he wished for to rule the country.

They are both no heroes, both did awful things, But ones motivations (even if some assume exaggerated) were more positive then the other. Gye Won tried to protect the country (whenever the threat was real or not does not change the intention itself), while Lee Tae wanted to gain the power and that's it. IF they showed me how he wanted to gain the power to make the country better, how he had plans how to improve it etc. I might be less harsh on his character. But his goal is power. And when he achieved it in episode 15, his next goal is more power. His whole motivation is himself. He can't even say he does it to protect his woman and his child, as he said he will eliminated Yoo Jung too is he tries to stop him ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Character cannot get more selfish than that.

While Gye Won basically went: I will die and take all the blame, become the traitor an lose all the merit I achieved in the past to stop Lee Tae from becoming tyrant and helping Yoo Jung control him.

For me the motivations behind the actions are important, since the actions themselves do not differentiate the characters.

You keep ignoring the impact all these actions had.
As I said, the worst thing that could happen because of GW testing YJ was her death.

While the worst that happened coz of Lee Tae's plan was death of innocent people. Not to mention, Lee Tae never wanted to test QD. The point was for her to kill GW loyal subject and commit treason so then she can be used to remove all the rest officials that are against Lee Tae.

I think that will be my last comment. You started with a specific comparison saying it's hypocrisy, and when I explained that these specific plot points were not even comparable, you started to build your case with other unrelated to that specific comparison aspects.

Lee Tae created that monster lol He made her think everyone is against her even the guy that loves her. If it was not for Lee Tae, she would not doubt Gye Won. And EVEN if we put her being a monster on Gye Won, 100% his fault (which I don't believe), it's still ON LEE TAE for what she did, as he gave her said power, he wanted her to kill people, that was LITERALLY part of his plan. Gye Won tried to stop that, when he saw what she was doing.

The plan was already in motion back then. It's not like Lee Tae was deciding if he will remove her or not depending if she will compromise. He said it in episode 15 - they (Gye Won and QD) had to be eliminated no matter what, because they will always be a threat to his power. There w as not option in his plan to not have them eliminated depending on their actions.

the ending that is slightly probable and I would want:

Both Gye Won and Lee Tae dies. Yoo Jung becomes a temporary ruler until her son is old enough to take over as the benevolent king.

Realistically speaking makes no sense for Gye Won to have a happy ending, and for me the good ending for him is the righteous king o the throne, even if he is dead.

Lee Tae was on the way to tyranny for 15 episodes, being determined to even possibly kill Yoo Jung, so them giving him a quick last minute change of heart Disney style would be ridiculous.

They were supporters of the late queen WHO WAS THE DAUGHTER OF THE TYRANT KING lol Perfectly valid to be concern about the royal family gaining more power, when you have literally the daughter of the tyrant as one of them.

Also you are changing the topic coz you know your point is not valid. Compering Gye Won testing Yoo Jung to Lee Tae giving unlimited power to QD is ridiculous, not valid in terms of the goal, motivation and possible consequences if things go wrong.

Now Lee Tae himself tries to limit and tell Sarim's what to do, and he literally said he will eliminate anyone (Yoo Jung included) who will threaten him seeking the absolute power ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ While Gye Won was wiling to retire and step down, when he checked that Yoo Jung is in fact someone worthy to rule the country and she could potentially get Lee Tae to become bole king.

The point is - he ASKED her what she decided to do in a remote location, being read to shoot her ass with arrow if she picks revenge. He did not give her unlimited power and yeeted himself out of the picture not caring what will happen to the country like Lee Tae did. It's not the same 🤣

It's not the same.
Yoo Jung had NO power. If she decided to betray Gye Won, at worst it would get her and him killed. Gye Won wanted to see if she is willing to put her people first, and not her revenge.

While Lee Tae KNEW QD will be a ruthless ruler who will kill people to gain more power, that was literally his plan. Give her power with which she will eliminate the people on Gye won's side to make him suffer. She made her do his own dirty work.

You know what I find fascinating? How mdl comment section is more #TeamLeeTae, while mdl feeds is more #TeamGyeWon
And by team, I mean either supporting, being more forgiving, seeing that side as better/lesser evil etc. The sentiment about the characters is so different in these two places.

sorry, checked your list to make sure what episode you are on not to spoil.

Might want to read the rest of the comment after you finish the whole ep tho:


Lee Tae literally did not want to tell anyone who Yoo Jung is, coz that would have a negative effect on him trying to seek absolute power. He was annoyed when even people on his side have him advice and reminded him what are their duties and what are the limits of royal power. He does not want to limit the power fo the "bad officials" he wants the absolute power. Yoo Jung said it right - the moment Sarim starts to gain more power and "threaten" his royal one, he will scheme how to remove them. Coz once he takes the easy road, it's hard to move from it. He literally said if Yoo Jung goes against his plan to gain more power, he will eliminate her too. What's noble about that?

I see you only saw 11 episodes, so I will not reply, but you will see later all the things you said about Lee Tae are... well not correct, by his own words 🙃

Lee Tae's father decided to take as his queen and keep in court the daughter of the tyrant and then tried to gain more power with people who were in support of said queen. Anyone could view it as a threat. If we go far enough putting blame on each and every character before it, for putting it in motion, no one is truly guilty.

For me they all did awful things, and the only difference between them is their motivation and intentions (whenever it was objectively justified or not). Gye Won's motivation was always protecting the country. Lee Tae's motivation was gaining power, and he could not give less fucks about the country itself. Yoo Jung said is as it was - it was not about strengthening the royal power, it was about gaining the absolute power by all means. Gye Won was "paranoid" because of the tyrant king he was able to remove. Lee Tae was obsessed coz of the lack of power he had. That said, Gye Won is willing to sacrifice himself and is willing to step back (which he did countless times when he started to trust Yoo Jung and her decisions) while Lee Tae does not. They are both not great people, but one is more dangerous and not fitting to rule than the other.

she completely forgot about the real reason behind her family's assassination < to be fair, she gave up the revenge quite early on. She said she knows Gye Won ad Lee Tae are her enemies and the reason why her family died, but she chose her people over her person revenge. Now she does not really want the revenge, she wants the truth. She wants her father's name to be clean.

"Park Gye Won is a tyrant who caused the death of entire scholars families (including FL's) simply because he wanted to control who would marry the future king" Wrong. The late king, late queen and Lee Tae are also guilty of her family's death. Putting it all on Gye Won is just not correct. He did not want the late queen to die, he wanted to remove her from the court. She decided to kill herself as she rather die a queen than lose the title (she said it lol) and protect the little royal power they had. And it's not like the King wanted to put blame for it on Gye Won and just kill him, he said he will annihilate 3 generations of the families of people involved (in his mind that would be Gye Won's), which also mean killing countless innocent people. Lee Tae said - we must cut off the limbs of The Left State Councilor and the officials and wiped out their families too. His plan was as evil as whatever Gye Won planned - Gye Won succeeded, does not make Lee Tae a better people, just because he did not get want he wanted. He had exactly as awful plan made and would put it in actions if he could.

You need to remember that the queen was connected to the tyrant king, she was part of his family. The idea of her being a queen and royal family gaining more power could sound like a threat in that context. We don't know much about Sarim clan stand during the tyranny rule of the king. All we know that Yoo Jung's dad studied with the tyrant king in the past. It's hard for us to make a judgement if the Sarim clan was actually a possible danger or not, since we don't know much about them.

The king protected the daughter of the tyrant king, made her a queen and then tried to gain more power during his ruling. Depending on the perspective you take, you might see the whole past plot in a different light. The point is, the situation was far more complex that Gye Won being tyrant and wanting power - if that was the case, he would make the official make him the king after they deposed the tyrant king.

Lee Tae created Queen Dowager. Gye Won was always honest with her - he will always pick the country over her, always. He is willing to take some actions to protect her when situation needs it, but if it negatively affect the country, he will not support her. Lee Tae drove her to her obsession over power, making her think Gye Won does not care for her anymore (with the use of the monk), he set everything up for her to gain said power which led to all the people dying. Gye Won actually tried to stop it, quite a few times. With all the awful things Gye Won did, I don't think we can blame him for Queen Dowager. It's all on her and Lee Tae.

Both Gye Won and Lee Tae did some awful things. both had lives of innocent people on their hands. For me the difference is their motivation - one does it to protect the country (whenever we see it as a justification or not is not important) one does it to gain power. IF they showed me Lee Tae has ANY plans or ideas how to use the power he wants to gain to make the country a better place for his subjects, I would be more willing to understand his behavior (as I am with Gye Won), but till episode 14 his ONLY goal is power, with no idea how to use it when he gets it.

I think the drama shows perfectly the political aftermath of the tyrant king. It's not over just because new king is picked. We did not see Lee Tae's father take any actions to better the country, same with Lee Tae. They were both solely focused on gaining power. We never saw them trying to cooperate with the officials on any neutral issues of the country - it was always battle of the things that might give them power. That is what made the official more fearful and take stronger actions against them to limit their power, which led royal family to make some plans with awful consequences to to gain the power and fight against the officials. One action was the result of the other, and for a long time none of the sides was willing to stop. They were both guilty.

For me the difference lays on how Gye Won at some point was willing to step down, allow the king to gain more power, prove that he is a good ruler. He was planning to resign, but the king had his QD plan in motion. What's more - while Gye Won killed many innocent people (in his mind) to protect the country from potential tyranny, he is also willing to end like that, if that means stopping the tyrant - being executed as a traitor.

I mean we know how the author works form previous works. Dan Oh was the main character in the previous work (the historical one) and was just a supporting character in the one that takes place in the drama. By the end when the new webtoon starts, the main characters become supporting ones, the supporting ones become mains, some extra. The author just uses the few characters they once created to fill their work - character wise they are not like themselves (as we see how they are completely different in the newest webtoon at the end of the show). They tell the same love triangle story, just different setting, and switch characters each work 🤣

For me, the show kind of gave me an impression the author is just a shitty writer who can't write a good written original work, so they rely on the cliches and just rehash their own ideas with small twists or different setting for each webtoon they create 🙃

the 4th wall - episode 10, time: 13:51 (around). Context - they were coming up with ideas for fan cafe name. It's a bts joke there.

Coz the writers are trying to overdo the main couples, when with romance the simplicity and good chemistry is all that is needed.
I might try to find the episode and time stamp if you want hahahah

i was honestly surprised it was not boring with that format and that plot

yeah 18 days ago 🤣