winteraeon

Those unreasonably long pauses in serious and comedic scenes? back. forth. back. forth. going on so long I felt like clawing at my eyes? That was the whole show for me. The boys did well with what they were given but what they were given wasn’t very good.

I’m with you. Honestly, the chemistry is too strong between Dunk and Phuwin for me to ship them with anyone else. Plus Star and Ivy have fantastic chemistry. Lune and Star are super cute and I think they have great friend chemistry but it doesn’t feel like genuine romantic chemistry. more like the outcasts finally finding a friend who gets them.

It’s pretty obvious to me that Ivy likes Star. But maybe she’s supposed to like/wind up with White.

Ming was mentally, emotionally and even sometimes sexually abusive. he was controlling and manipulative. Being manipulated is not a good enough excuse and just because he gave a half-assed apology doesn’t mean anything. He didn’t “take care of” Joe just because he suddenly was doing the bare minimum. The main villain of this story was Ming, not Tong. It’s sad that you don’t realize that.

"Abandonment issues" may be the incorrect way of phrasing it, I admit. However, the trauma from losing parents at a young age is really severe and is what I think leads to that desperation for love that we see him express with Ming, which Ming then takes advantage of.

I was also frustrated and even angry with Joe for choosing the contract with Ming to solve his financial problems and ignoring the warnings of Wut and Sol and their attempts to create distance between Joe and Ming. However, it had been, what?, weeks between his "death" and the point where he accepted that contract for him? Joe was still caught in the psychological clutches of that abuse. Does the decision piss me off? Yes. But do I understand that most abused persons return to their abusive partners for a variety of reasons? Also yes.

The lack of connection between the two Joes feels like a loose end but it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the show expecting us to accept the ending as a happy one.

Are you seriously excluding Ming as a villain here?

Thank you for seeing and talking about the abuse and the fact that Joe acts very much like someone in an abusive relationship does. His character, while frustrating for viewers, was very realistic. He was manipulated by Ming at every turn when he tried tog rat away from him. If it wasn’t for his new mother’s medical condition perhaps he would have gotten away from him in his new life.

I was downright angry at the beginning of episode 13 when that manipulation removed the choice he’d made for himself yet again (though one could argue the master had also manipulated him into that choice but I don’t think so).

I agree with almost everything here. My one point of contention is your read on Joe. Joe, and his abysmal decisions, are pretty typical of someone with abandonment issues (initial reasons why he puts up with Ming’s bullshit, these come from losing his parents when he’s so young) and someone in an abusive relationship (which it 100% is). As nonsensical as it seems, him continually being manipulated back into being with Ming even when he is intentionally trying to get away from him and succumbing to the “I’m so sweet now and gave you a half-assed apology” on the end is all too real for many caught in a relationship with an abusive partner. He gets my sympathy and empathy for that even as I want to shake him.

Some teenage girls ALSO look older than they are. In fact, I suspect it’s much more prevalent with them than it is with teenage boys due to how makeup and fashion trends tend to go (as well as social expectations). However having a 19 yr old actress play a college student or someone newly out of college isn’t any more concerning than having Gemini and Fourth doing so. You seem to be making assumptions about the TYPE of content and other things that may go along with more “mature” roles and settings. These are, however, not assumptions I am making. Mature does NOT equate to sexualized or sexual content. If that’s the assumption you’ve been making then you need to check in with yourself instead of trying to tell a stranger on the internet they are wrong. Because that is a you thing, not a me a thing.

My argument from the beginning is that I agreed with OP that they look too old for high school roles. Will it be their last high school roles? probably not, even if I hope so. But that doesn’t change how they look and how they will continue to look older fairly quickly due to hormones at the age they are. Again, my original point was an OPINION concurring with OPs. Your original point was an OPINION disagreeing with it. There is no objective measure of how a particular age LOOKS so why are you arguing AN OPINION?!

No, it’s not. I’ve said “he looks older than he is.” Knowing how old someone actually is doesn’t change how old they ACTUALLY look whether they LOOK 15 but are 22 or whether they LOOK 22 but are 15. You may mentally decide “this is what 15 looks like” because you know they are 15, but others aren’t going to do that and go “I know they are 15 but they don’t look it.” You’re trying to claim the point is irrelevant because you can’t refute it.

Me either! And the implication we’re being predatory by looking at them going “those guys (who aren’t in hs) don’t look like hs school students.” WTF? Imagine being implied as a predator because you work in retail or food service and are surprised how young someone is when you card them. People in late teens to early twenties fluctuate wildly with how old they look compared to one another all the time!

I wish I had your ability to not engage and try desperately to get them to see the point you’re actually making. I fail at this every time (as witnessed above)

Do you know the ages of everyone you come in contact with on a daily basis? Are you certain they are all approximately the age you think they are? If so, have you tested that assumption? My guess is no. You probably guess people’s ages wrong all the time. But it’s valid for you to do so because you’re only looking at how they look, dress and perhaps act. It’s valid because you don’t actually know you’re wrong about how old they are at the time.

“But doesn’t that prove that you can’t really say a 19 year-old looks too old to play a 17-year old.” TO ME. As I have been saying repeatedly because you don’t seem to understand that I am not trying to bring down a freaking edict from the heavens, TO ME he looks too old for those roles and TO YOU he does and DISAGREEING IS FINE.

I’m not “insisting” he looks older but trying to get it through to you that not everyone agrees with you about how he looks and that it is perfectly valid that the perception of how old he looks is different to the age you perceive him to look. However you continue to just beat the dead horse with your “no he looks his age” (which is couched as an objective statement of fact and therefore makes YOU the one doing the insisting) when all I’ve been saying is that he had matured a lot recently physically so TO ME he no longer looks like a kid who is in HS (and he also IS NOT A KID IN HS anyway).

🤦🏻‍♀️ Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Again, YOU don’t think it’s awkward. I disagree. Others on here have also felt the same as both you and I. This is not a right vs wrong situation, it’s just opinions. I’ve seen 23 yr olds who look 37 and 35 year olds who look 21. Everyone ages differently and perceptions of what ages “look like” varies between cultures and generations. It’s just an experience thing.

You trying to turn this into something gross (implied with your “justification” comment) is on you, not me. I’m not advocating for anything specific here other than not doing yet another HS show with people who don’t look like they are in HS anymore. You’re the one who is apparently interpreting that in whatever sort of way.

I literally said you can disagree but this is what I see and why it seems awkward. Why is your response to double down as if this is an “I’m right, you’re wrong” situation? Actors are cast for the ages they can pass for. You think he looks 19, great. I think he looks more like 22ish. I know how old he is. I know how age vs character age generally goes down. I’m not refuting that. Earth was cast as a man in his mid 30s while still in his 20s so it’s not like actors only play characters younger than themselves.

People think both Fourth and Gemini look older than HS age and would like to see them given more mature material bc we think they would do well with it. It’s not something to argue about just because you either a) don’t agree or b) are happy with how things usually go down and/or c) WANT to see them do more HS series.

I’ve seen so many photos or video snippets of him in the last few months where he looks firmly college aged or could pass for slightly older than that. And this is both Fourth just being Fourth AND when he’s styled/doing photoshoots. You can disagree and that’s fine but I see it and it makes it very strange to stuff him into a HS uniform.

I’m not sure you really understand or properly see Gemini’s character. His character is very similar to the original Japanese character, both in the live action and manga. The original character is very emotional reserved and quiet. He very much doesn’t understand feelings, doesn’t recognize them and isn’t a very emotional person. In fact, he’s fairly neurodivergent (autistic-leaning) coded. it may help for you to keep that in mind when watching him bc Gemini has done a great job portraying him given that, imo

For me the Thai adaptation is hard bc they kept so much of the over the top silliness you find in the Japanese original and it doesn’t feel like it fits into a Thai BL for me. The characters and situations still feel very much like a Japanese manga. I wish they’d done more to adapt it and make it their own as they’ve done with some other titles

eh, honestly both actors have matured physically A LOT in the last year. I had a very surreal moment of looking at Fourth a few months back and realizing that while he’s still adorable he looks like a man, not just a young guy. He looks older than he is. For me Gemini’s maturing isn’t as drastic but likely bc I never thought of him as a cutest person to begin with