winteraeon

People often overlook that LIKING something isn’t the same as it being GOOD and that just because it’s good doesn’t mean you’ll like it. How good something is has more objective quality criteria. Whether or not you enjoy something is completely subjective. (this is my former film major pet peeve, that people confuse the two.) There are plenty of objectively good films, for example, that I just don’t enjoy and didn’t like the experience of watching.

It’s entirely possible to rate something low but stick around because you enjoy it in some way (even if it’s the car crash effect). I think people will read comments and reviews and then make the call whether or not to watch it. Though I think it’s better to know what you’re getting with this show before you get into it.

You are not at all logically thinking about Tee’s position. He works for his uncle to care for his ill father. If he had other means by which to make adequate money he would have pursued them previously and not been there. Secretly contacting his parents could be traced back to him. He’s seen his uncle’s connections in the police. He’s seen cases of investigating that operation get swept under the rug and how Non’s case was covered up.

If he tells Non’s parents secretly where Non is they go to the police. The corrupt cops in uncle’s pocket tell uncle, extort money from him for the cover up. Uncle knows he has a traitor. There is logically only one person who would try to help Non. Now Tee is potentially getting killed by his uncle, leaving no one to take care of his dad and no one to try to intervene to keep Non alive. Now Non is sold off for his organs anyway. How has this helped Non more than what he actually did?

I’m not sure how you think he could have physically gotten Non out of the casino. There are armed guards at the entrance. But let’s say he gets Non out. Where does Non go? Home? To the family that will tell him what a loser and fuck up he is? Where he clearly doesn’t feel loved or wanted? To the boyfriend who told him to fuck off and die for lying to him and sleeping with a teacher? Where does Non go? Even if he does go to either of those places, does he tell his parents where he was! Do they go back to the corrupt cops? The cops who then cover it up. Now uncle goes after Non to reclaim him, maybe captures him and sells him for organs or just kills him. Probably kills Non’s family for the trouble. Definitely does something unpleasant to Tee bc that kid wasn’t in any shape to escape alone and Tee is the only one logically who would help him. Again, how is this better for Non than what Tee actually did?

Tee doesn’t know where Non’s body is. He couldn’t discreetly or otherwise tell anyone where it is because he wasn’t part of dumping it. If he tells anyone and that body is found we are back to Tee putting himself at risk of being badly injured or killed and he has his dad to take care of.

Where did any of your suggestions actually help Non more than keeping him from being sold off and helping make money to pay off the debt did?

I think they are aiming for a second season. The lack of focus on the supposed plot (Nant) suggests to me that was always their intention. But what they gave us isn’t good enough and what’s left of the actual story doesn’t warrant gambling with giving them a second season imo

I know. I watch you try to point out how bloodthirsty and illogical so many people are in the comments so I know it's a losing battle but I can't just not say anything sometimes.

You know people react to things in a lot of very complicated ways, right? And given the situation at hand, him processing how Non died isn't really the thing that needs to take priority. Surviving needs to take priority. Would you prefer Phee break down in hysterical sobbing and wind up dead? What good does that do him? Especially when he has mostly been a calm, level headed character the entire series. It makes sense that he is addressing the escalating situation first and foremost. And New is the one escalating it.

That guy is off his fucking head. He is so high and so broken you can't even reason with him. Tee is most concerned currently with keeping White safe, therefore not a threat. Por is dead. Top is bleeding out, probably dead. Jin hasn't posed a threat yet. Fluke is losing it but he's currently doing it quietly which is why Tan/New becomes this biggest threat. New is losing it but is also AGGRESSIVE. He wants everyone to die, not because of what they did to Non but because of what HE lost (which is explicitly said in this episode). And yet you're disgusted with the person attempting to get the situation in some semblance of control even though he's not doing a very good job and control may not be possible?

I really wonder what sort of processing some people have when they watch episodes or if they just take in the big obvious points and their eyes glaze over to the rest.

Yes, exactly! He never had to deceive this parents. He could have even let them know about the forged identity etc. Personally, I think New being Tan was one of the dumbest decisions in the story and the only one I really mind. I know people assumed Tan was New for ages before it was revealed, but shoehorning this care for his little brother in and having him somehow figure out the means to gain a fake identity to live under was such a stretch for me. And unnecessary. I think Tan could have turned out to be any number of people instead of New and it could have worked. Obviously the motive to go off the rails would have been different but still entirely workable.

But to get back on track, yes, New is ultimately the reason for the ruin of his family financially (he was even before Non disappeared, they were increasingly in trouble). If he, the golden child, was around, I can almost guarantee his mother wouldn't have been so depressed and likely would have survived as a result since it's implied she more or less died from stress/despair/broken heart. And, as you said, his father definitely wouldn't have felt so betrayed and killed himself.

****Heavy Spoilers about the Nant storyline here, if you were cool with the spoilers above but don't want to know this please stop here!****

We should have found out about Zouey's rape, both for how it tied into the Nant storyline and for how it tied into his own, much sooner. I found it very interesting that we see Zouey getting off to that painting of Jason early on in the series. Had he not been raped yet? Was the reason he appeared to be full of shame getting off to it because he HAD been raped? (I will not condemn if this is the case, rape survivors go through a lot of complicated emotions and this wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility.) I had always thought Zouey had a thing for Nant, but was what I was reading as a crush and sadness as his "disappearance" (Zouey knew where he was at this point, I believe) actually guilt for Nant having to hide because he decided he wanted to out Jason to get revenge for Zouey?

We don't know what was on that last clip Nuth had that Phop gave Nont so we don't know if it makes sense that Nuth hid it for so long. I suspect this is something that should have come out sooner, though.

Phop killing Nant definitely should have been revealed to the viewers much sooner. It would have been much more interesting watching Phop and his apparent guilt at having killed Nant squirm while watching Nont trying to find out what happened to his brother, watching the guilt Nuth had about his role with Nant and how it contributed to his disappearance/death. I assume what was printing as he intentionally ODed was a suicide letter explaining his culpability (though for some reason I originally assumed it was Nuth's screenplay).

Prom concealing the truth of the suicide clip from Nont was unnecessary. The justification of not wanting Nont to assume he was involved in Nant's death was so thin I could see straight through it and ultimately only resulted in the opposite effect. Prom was, in my opinion, far too intelligent for such a stupid decision. This was another case of "we need this for PLOT!" I wouldn't be surprised if the writers didn't decide Prom had been there until after they had written and shot the episode of him denying knowing anything about it already.

The story of Nant, as we know it, ultimately goes: He succumbed to pressure from Captain to sleep around so he could more realistically portray a theatre role (this is such thin reasoning, they probably should have made him a drug addict first). He meets Nuth while sleeping with strangers and becomes and addict. Gets involved with Nuth and becomes a dealer. Ditches drugs to avoid capture by the police and winds up with the debt of those discarded drugs. Sells more drugs and sex tapes to get out of debt. At some point finds out his best friend was raped by the man who is ultimately the head of the snake for the drugs he deals and the person he owes his debt to. When did Nant find out Jason was the head of the drug trade? No idea. Decides he's going to out Jason and get him punished because of what he did to Zouey. Investigates? Finds info? Meets with Tutor? (all assumptions, we don't know much about this). Jason somehow or another decides Nant has to be taken out. Nant fakes his own death. Hides. Zouey (and I'm guessing Prom since he was in the Playboyy VIP room) know where he is. Zouey decides to get him out of the country (why now? not sure). Nant goes to meet Nuth for reasons we don't know and meets Phop instead who kills him (jealousy? not wanting to lose his man?). Dead Nant.

If they had focused on Nant's story, as the synopsis of the series implied they would, it might have been much better. But they wanted a second season so they put a bunch of other things in the series that ate up time.

Was Nont's investigation supposed to be so impotent? I appreciate that for once a college kid with no training in investigation didn't unearth the whole plot where trained professionals had failed to, but as the series went on this investigation got progressively more campy. I feel like at some point they went "Dech, Nont isn't gay enough. Sure, he fucks guys but can you make him more obviously gayer?" And then Zouey and Nont tickle tortured someone for information. (This is one of the gayest moments of the entire series for me.) We also get that set up for Aob and Puen that felt a lot like the whole "five gays screaming in the kitchen" scene. This is not the person you'd ever take seriously but I felt like he seemed more credible early in the series. Maybe that's just rose colored glasses when I try to remember that far back.

Lastly, can we please not make actors speak tons of a second language without any actual purpose in the series when they don't seem very comfortable with the language? I'm not criticizing them having accents when speaking English so don't make that assumption. Chat, Jack and Hymn all sound very awkward, stilted and forced when speaking English. If you had a Perth Nakhun and you were like "oh, this person speaks English fluently/natively, let's give their character a background where they've lived in an English speaking country and have some of their lines in English" (See: Perth's character in Cutie Pie) that would be one thing. First and Soong have no apparent background in English. They didn't live abroad for long periods of time. They didn't go to an international school for high school or were in the international program in uni (see actors like Gemini and Phuwin who are very comfortable with and fluent in English but still have Thai as their native language). No, they just randomly know English so they speak it all the time. Except a lot of bilingual and multilingual people talk about how their non-native languages are more work mentally so when they are home (or, say, having a serious conversation with their partner? or during sex?) their native language, or the language they are most comfortable with is the one they default to. because it's less work for them mentally. Hilariously, the only character who was living in the US for years is actually Nont, who never speaks English. (Jason also spends time in the US but his use of English in series didn't make sense contextually.)

Overall...uh, good attempt writers but you didn't pull it off this time. Not even close. (I'm going to be so impressed if anyone reads this whole thing)

He's just a sweet cinnamon roll who wound up with a crush on someone with a really horrible past and is now paying the price for it. I'm going to be so sad if White winds up dead or badly injured (not that his mental trauma isn't already horrible).

I'm so glad someone else honed in on that. Phee wants to know the truth because he wants closure and to be able to move on. New originally wanted to punish those responsible. But it's not about Non anymore. And I don't think it has been since his mom died and dad subsequently hung himself. If it turned out that Non was still alive for the past two years after Tee thought he died then I think New would want Non dead, too. Because ultimately HE lost everything not just because of that group of friends, but because of Non. Without Non none of it happens and he can continue his life studying abroad in England, right?

At this point, if anyone survives and tells the police the truth that will make Tan and Phee liable for all the deaths and injuries that occurred regardless who directly pulled the trigger or impaled who. In addition with other charges, of course.

I find it so interesting that the most stoic among the group, and the one with the most culpability in what befell Non, is also the only one who appears to actually feel any guilt or remorse. He’s also the only one who truly tried to help, though it was too late for his efforts to be of much use.

Sure, Jin has carried guilt about the leaked sex tape (jury still out on whether or not his attempted upload was actually the successful one), but all he did was sit there and stew over it. He didn’t admit that guilt. He didn’t apologize. He didn’t try to help Non at all.

This episode gave me a lot of sympathy for Tee. A parent with, what I assume to be, Alzheimer’s is so heartbreaking and difficult to deal with. Most adults can’t bear the responsibility and hardship that involves and he was just a kid. We don’t even know when his dad got that bad that Tee had to step up.

I know Tee is irredeemable in the eyes of the bloodthirsty majority here. I know his shitty and impossible situation doesn’t make what he did to Non okay in the slightest. But he also chose to make himself responsible. He chose to guarantee payment to his uncle if he let Non work off the debt rather than selling him and condemning him to death. He chose to skip school and find part time jobs and innovate ways to make additional money to help Non pay off that debt. Jin also once promised to help Non pay off a debt, only we never saw him actually make good on that promise. Tee genuinely did what he could to try to get Non out of the situation he’d gotten him into. Tee was, in many ways, backed into a corner when he made some of those decisions (like drugging Non and handing him over to his uncle). He didn’t have to make those choices and this was the only way he could take responsibility. He tried. He clearly grieved Non’s death and blamed himself for failing to rescue him from the situation he created.

People want to condemn him, and I did too before this episode. But I believe if you don’t give people a chance to do better, to be better people, then they never will. Of them all, he’s the only one who actually tried to change and be a better person.

And I wonder if Tee might ultimately be the one responsible for his uncle getting caught by the police. We saw a news article about it in a paper early on in the series. Maybe Non, if he’s truly still alive as I hope, was the source. Or Mr Keng (though we haven’t heard or seen anything of him so we don’t know if he’s still alive). But what if it was Tee and part of him trying to repent and get some small measure of justice for the person he was responsible for who he failed?

That would be so devastating if Tee wound up killing White due to the drug. White is the only actual innocent person there, though that would certainly be the worst possible punishment for Tee to live with.

I read that very differently than you do. I don’t think Tee ever forgot what he did or how he was the cause. I think trying to be a better person is a form of repentance. Yes, White does give him happiness and I think that’s okay given that he’s trying to be a better person and do better.

I 100% agree that Fluke is the likely culprit of the video leak. It’s never tracked that it was Jin for me given what we saw of his computer shutting down. I just don’t know how Fluke got the video or if he took one of his own from behind Jin, but that doesn’t seem like something he’d go out of his way to do. Fluke reads as much more of an opportunist than an initator of action to me.

I can’t help but continue to expect Non to be alive. Him dying from working too much just doesn’t track. He had been through so much worse than what we saw of his conditions working in the casino. Dying of malnourishment I’d believe maybe. But I just can’t escape the thought that he’s alive and will
show up only once they are all out of that house and back home. People will be dead. They’ll all be irreparably traumatized. And Non will just casually be spotted somewhere.

Did you know there is a real drug that can cause people to do whatever they are told without any ability to resist and they won’t even remember what they did under the effects of it afterward? And yet an inhaled drug that can sedate people to the point of sleep is too outside the realm of reality for you?

I’d love that twist, but it would beg the question of where Non has been for the last two years. Though, I think it would make sense that he never went back to his family. It’s clear in his conversation with Ted that he doesn’t feel his family cares about him, any of them. I could also rationalize him not making contact with Phee given how that relationship ended when confronted about the cheating from the video. Imagine if New and Phee have been doing this sneaky shit on and off for years to discover the truth, Tee has been living with his guilt and trying to be a better person and now all this hell has come to bear on them…but Non is just in a totally different part of the country surviving or even doing well. (I’d argue Jin has been living with guilt too but I don’t think he lives with it actively and hasn’t for years, but I suspect the stuff with Non still lives actively in Tee’s mind given what we saw this episode.)

the recc to just watch episode 14 is so appropriate.

The fact they think they have enough of a story to tell in a second season after handling the story of the first so poorly is so laughable

There was a bit at the end of the scene with New drugging Top in the “temple” that looked like we were watching it from over someone’s shoulder who was behind one of the fabric panels. I interpreted that as Phee watching them at first but I’m pretty sure he was definitely still at the house. So then who do we think actually witnessed it?

How about we just support Copper and whatever decisions he decided to make with his career instead of hoping he leaves a particular genre behind? Some actors may use BL to get their foot in the door for acting or entertainment in general and ultimately hope to do other things. That is irrefutable (esp with GMMTV actors actually). However, it is also possible any given individual may WANT to act in BL as their main genre for a variety of reasons.

So instead of indirectly degrading the genre someone IS working in, let’s just support them for whatever they choose to do and hope they get the opportunities they hope for.

Thank you, I’m flattered.