Lenny

Sweetheart, when has Yang ever shown anything but kindness toward Tian? What motivation does she have that Yang would expose his brother's secret or be a threat to him? Yang has never shown interest in his father's position and she herself admits that they love each other. If he wanted to tell his mother anything, Jan would've known it by now. Aunt Jia even overhears the conversation where Yang quite literally refused to tell his second mother Tian's secret.

And why does she think her killing Yang wouldn't affect Tian to the point that he wouldn't want to live anymore? If his protection was the concern here, then Yang's death would certainly put his life in danger. Again, she had no reason to fall to fear here. She wanted him dead because even If Yang didn't reveal his secret, he would still have a high chance of getting his father's position once it got out. And that is pure selfish greed on her part.

The reason she hadn't planned to do anything to Jan was because Jan hasn't been a threat to her. Li already has everything that Jan doesn't have. She's already first wife and her son is first in line to take over his father's position. She has been waving that over Jan's head ever since their sons were babies. But the moment that was threatened, Ms Li was ready to kill both Jan and her son, as this episode proves.

Li has stated flat out that her goal is to protect Tian AND for him to take the head position. Which he does not need. There is nothing about his father's position that protects Tian. That is something that she wants for him and it's selfish because he doesn't even want it. Lol

Hey, TS! I'm more than happy you were willing to unload that to me. I've always welcome to see your viewpoint on these shows, because they're always fair, honest, and not overly critical. And I find myself agreeing with you a lot. Mangkorn and Yai's relationship was turbulent and raw at the start but I have really admired the way they have methodically evolved their relationship into something honest, powerful, and sweet. MosBank(I will have to check up on their travel blogs) have been doing a fabulous job, and the cinematography is everything! I have not read the books, but I have enjoyed the series since the very beginning. I've since checked out of reading the comments here after I saw someone criticizing's Bank's appearance and mannerisms. You know I ain't for that life! But it is what it is. I'm still happy with posting my praise for this series every week because I genuinely think they've done a great job with it, all things considered.

They didn't actually grow up together. One of the brothers mentioned that their parents got together when they were in middle school. So it was reasonable to me that they wouldn't just view each other as siblings. It was all revealed in a very brief dialog, so it was easy to miss, but I've watched that show more times than I can count...

History4 was just too weird to me. I'm not judging folks for liking it, but I just can't ride with that one. Lol

I understand what you're saying but I don't agree that he got closer with Jiu to initially entertain a romantic relationship. He was definitely attracted to Jiu, but every interaction between them, before all of the recent events, were framed under the notion that they would only exclusively be friends. All of the help he offered Jiu, Tian would have done for anyone. He even gave one of his workers the money he needed to buy his mother medicine after he was blamed for stealing from them by Tong. Tian is just an all around good guy and wanted to genuinely help Jiu after he saved his life. We just have to keep in mind that Jiu was really poor and had a sibling who was ill. He really needed the help. And Tian clearly never would've acted on his romantic feelings toward Jiu had he not been drugged by his mother, since he valued their friendship. You can't help the way you feel, so his lingering thoughts about liking men can't really be considered an implausibility, and since his mother already knew about it ever since he was young, this was why they often clashed and had discussions about it.

What you described about Mrs. Li is the definition of greed. An intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power/status, or food. She is greedy because what she wants is excessive and a detriment to others including herself. I like her character and I understand that you guys aren't defending her actions, but after everything she's done it would be an uphill battle to try and argue what she is doing isn't greed at this point. I agree that there's love there and a fear of what could happen to her son, but there's vanity and greed there that lays separate from that love, just like with Jan and her son Yang. Her and Jan are two halves of the same coin. Even before she found out about Tian's sexuality, she was shown to look down on people who were lower in status than her. This is the main reason Jan is so motivated to take her down.

Whatever happens to Tian, I want a happy ending for him and Jiu. I know it's not realistic in that time period, but I think after everything that happened with Mr. Zhang and what Tian has been through I believe Song can put aside his pride and accept Tian for who he is. Everyone in that family loves Tian, so his relationship with Jiu could be an open secret with them from the rest of the world. That or he moves far away from his family with Jiu to live with his siblings where no one will know them. Ms Li and Aunt Jia need to go to jail though, but that's unlikely to happen in Thai dramas. Lol

But if we're talking how Li should react as a mother to her son in this time period after everything that initially unfolded, I would go back to what I said to another poster here. She should've told his father about it when Tong found out the secret. If he wouldn't accept Tian, she should leave Song with her wealth to take care of her son somewhere else. It's not like Song would be able to stop her after everything we know she is capable of with Aunt Jia. As long as Tian had the love of his mother beside him, it would be enough.

In response to the side note: Li has mentioned numerous times that she believes the position would protect Tian after he has taken it from his father. This is the reason she has been trying to fast track the marriage in the first place. Unfortunately, it absolutely would not protect him if someone like Ma exposed it to the public. So I find her reasoning flawed, and him taking the position only puts a bigger target on his back from the other families.

Whew chile! I wasn't disappointed!

I don't blame you. These last two episodes have been working my anxiety to the next level too! But I'm just too invested in the plot to miss anything at this point. If you need some details to fill in with this series feel free to hmu.

The siblings in Crossing the Line were definitely not blood related. They were step bros as well. I liked that one much better because they hadn't been step siblings for that long and were around the same age, while the ones in Close To You felt super creepy and toxic. I don't even want to get into it here. Lol

Just a few things here... I'm only responding because I feel there's context missing:

Tian didn't mentally entertain it. Up until he was forced to stop doing his fabulous crossdressing as a child by his mother, he only kept a single hair pin that his second mother had given him. The sex with Jiu was caused by the drug that was meant for him to sleep with Ying Pin instead. He only ran away after that when his mother discovered what they(he and Jiu) had done because he feared what his mother would do to Jiu at that point(whom had already murdered someone to protect his secret). Them hanging out before that wasn't entertaining a romantic relationship. Jiu was brought in to work with him because Tian wanted to repay him for saving his life, and they were poor(and his sister was incredibly ill). At that point Tian only considered friendship a possibility, and Jiu did as well.

If not greed, then what is the motivation for some of her actions when other less severe methods could have been taken to protect him? He didn't need to have his father's position to be protected. Especially when they've all agreed that people knowing they had someone gay in a leadership position would affect the family's business anyway. So even as head Tian would not be satisfied if it comes to that. Mrs. Li doesn't even care if he's exposed after getting the position. Only that he gets it.

Adding numerous murders to her resume(which he blames himself for), including people that Tian really cares about, (that includes a SA case) isn't logically protecting him. That's hurting him in all the worst kind of ways. The head position is something that she wants him to have and it's selfish and pure greed. She wants to have her cake and eat it too by protecting Tian and forcing a lifestyle on him that she can be proud of.

Yes, he deserves a good life, but he doesn't need the head position to have that. If she can recognize that he can't have the life that he wants because of the time period that they live in then she can recognize that he can't always get all the things that she wants for him as well. It's completely hypocritical of her to ignore that when it works against her. Lol

Sweetheart, did you watch episode 13? I thought you mentioned in one of your post that you'd seen up to episode 13. My previous replies to you were going off the assumption that you had, which is why I stressed that I only had viewed this greed as recent revelations after the way her character had acted toward characters like Yang. Chan is included in that as well. So everything you just said here pretty much agrees that it's greed.

I'm still tryin to figure out where Jiu was shot at...

This is probably one of the few Thai dramas where the action is as engaging as the Chinese ones. We need to see more Jam in these action roles.

I don't think those brothers were blood related if I remember right. They were step bros. Still didn't like it personally though...

That's really sad indeed! I can't really imagine her playing as Jan though(she looks quite similar to Bua's actress), so I suspect her character may have been a bit different from the one we got with the new actress.

Prayers to her family.

Even initially Jiu going in undercover was to protect Tian's life. Ma threatened that he would kill Tian to get him out of the way after Tian exposed his secret dealings to his father. After Jiu refused to kill him for Ma, they came up with a deal to find his secret instead in order to remove him from the board(and in Jiu's case, to spare his life). It's still a betrayal, but he didn't do it for his siblings or for any other reason other than to save Tian's life.

I think revealing the secret to Ma was probably all three reasons like you mentioned. Tian was coming back at any moment and Ma threatened that he would kill him. The only solution was to tell Ma the secret so he would have a reason to keep him alive, and it had to be a good enough reason to explain why Tien would abandon his family and run away with him. Ma was already losing patience with Jiu after running away with Tien and not telling him about it. Plus Ma still had his siblings, and(supposedly) the medicine for his sister. So he had more than one reason to keep his trust and not fight with him.

And then finally, Tian and Jiu had already agreed to move away with each other, so Ma knowing Tian's secret would be useless to him anyway, since Tian wouldn't be in his way anyway at that point to cause him any trouble(although clearly Ma's plan is Much worse than Jiu really knows after what is revealed in Ep 14).

I think what you're explaining is the brilliance of the storytelling, but Ms Li has still proven to be a selfish and greedy person. I love Killmonger from Black Panther and think he had valid reasons for his actions. But he was still a selfish and greedy person, and had no justification for his cruelty. The same holds true for Cersei in Game of Thrones.

I agree that initially, with taking the time period into account and what happened to Mr. Zhang, that her actions felt totally selfless toward her son. However, that has clearly changed after everything we've seen thus far. You didn't address any of the points I brought up in relation to Yang or Ying Pin for example, or the fact that she has enough wealth to leave Song and live out her days with Tian.

She had options, but chose to do evil to secure her status. Again I say, Tian has stated that he does not want the position.

Also, I think you've overlooked the nuance of Mr. Zhang's demise. He wasn't allowed to operate in a leadership position because of him being outed to the public. Zhang then chose to withdraw from the Five Dragons(rightfully so) and Song punished him by saying he would buy out his family's business. This scenario has no correlation to Tian's. He isn't in a leadership position and doesn't want to be. Him coming out to his father also doesn't out him to the public or affect their business. It's completely different. Li chose to hide the truth about her son from his father for selfish reasons. And that reason was because she wanted him to take over his position. She's already said once the secret comes out it won't be an issue once Tian takes over. That was the only reason she was fast tracking everything. That tells me the concern isn't about him being exposed, but her having him securing a place at the head of the family business.

Again I say, there is love there, but it's more than that. I'm sure Jan loves her son Yang as well, and I'm sure Li believes what she's doing is for a selfless cause, but that is where she's got it wrong. The core of all of these issues is the fact that she doesn't want to allow Tian to give up his father's position. If she really cared about his well being above all else, she would've taken other routes. Those routes would've meant less lucrative results for her though, which is why she didn't do it..

No, sir! There is no justifying Mrs. Li's behavior at this point, other than pure greed.

These excuses only take her so far when we consider the people she has chosen to attack, and the things she has done. Yang for example, is Tien's brother and best friend. He's never done a single thing to endanger Tian's status despite knowing the truth all along. She herself admits that they have always loved each other. She also chose to drug Ying Pin, and when that failed she attempted to create a SA scenario with her own son, so she could force a marriage onto her. There were plenty of other willing women for him to marry that she could've found before she felt she had no other option but to go down that road.

If she wasn't concerned about her status then she would have allowed Yang to take over as head of the house and told their father the truth. The old master Qi said it best. Tien isn't even in a bad position in his current workspace and would've been fine staying there. Song wouldn't have done anything different with Zhang, but Tian is his son and the situation is far different with him. Tian's secret wasn't out and Tian never wanted his father's position in the first place. She's been forcing it onto him. If all of that failed, she had the finances to leave Song and live out her days free with Tian, but she chose to poison and kill people instead.

I'm not saying there isn't love there though, but there is also a thirst for power and control, and it's completely separate from the love she has for her son. She has always looked down on people like Jan(their first encounter in the first episode was very telling of this), and isn't willing to accept anything less than the top spot. It doesn't matter how well off she is, the top spot is the thing that matters most to her at this point. Being the HBIC. She's shown that she's willing to crush anyone, including her own son, to keep that status. All of the things she thinks she's doing to keep him from the grave has been only pushing him closer to it. He blames himself for all the murders and chaos within the family. He blames himself for being gay and existing, yet she continues to add more to the load. Lol

And Aunt Jia is one of my favorite characters on this show. She's formidable, ride or die, and straight up gangster, but she ain't no hero. She knows what she's doing is wrong and selfish, but she is firmly dedicated to Mrs. Li, who I feel has taken complete advantage of her aid.

They are both amazing characters though, and great villains. Good villains can make a story great, but we shouldn't forget what they are.

https://www.bilibili.tv/en/video/2044145047
backup: https://ok.ru/video/4937423522509

Bootleg subs for ep 14 are up...

Bless their heart! Ep 13 and 14 were heavy this week, but I still really enjoyed them. The action and suspense is top notch.

She does a fabulous job playing Jia, and that would definitely explain the epic performance she served us back in ep 12. I hope her father is doing okay.

https://www.bilibili.tv/en/video/2049112002
Backup: https://ok.ru/video/4931929377485