ammmz

yeaa i heard that and ashin is in it right?

agree about yeon shin lol or they could just focus on the story and give it to us in a season!

yeaa i heard that and ashin is in it right?

agree about yeon shin lol or they could just focus on the story and give it to us in a season!

maybe they will do better for a series run? or have her story be worth while? agreed on the characters thing, i do not want them removed. i miss the core ones a lot and want to see them on their journey. although how it left off to see that with the new era would be interesting or going into the timeline of the occupation. is it supposed to happen at all or?

i think i just realized a big part of the disconnect between some well written characters to be hated, villains, etc is the entitlement factor which is a huge mark of these bad personality traits or disorders. when the entitlement comes in but the story isn't highlighting the entitlement but instead the traumatic aspects is a huge part of that frustration and, again, where does entitlement come from? insecurity, self-hate, doubt, etc leading for need to control through any means possible in diff capacities

idk if you have seen Trap but that's a campy fun 7ep crazyfest along with strangers from hell and i think it succeeds when writers are willing to admit their characters are fucking stupid on top of the horror since it's easy to be horrendous tbh (hope this makes sense)

i love them both and i was dying and i mean dying dying dying DYING OK DYING to see them together bc they were aroudn my fav golden era of tvn lit i know i had a fancast of them so the show ending up the way it did makes me really sad tbh idt their chemistry coudl justify me watching it plus it has LSH and i adore HSK so im like -_-- sir

but he does look good as death. and with the cigarette ugh. also when he grows out his hair? ? ? ? ? ? like in the movie with LSH growth too.

behind the scenes were so funny too and i love when he was like "ppl think im hot cos im ugly" basically. ugh i might watch clips again

RIGHT? MATE. the minute we saw her ass wasnt pregnant i was like oh this bitch CARAZY CARAZY i wasnt even fully paying attn the first time around and it is the main thing i remember bc u know when babies r involved and it's back then there's some infanticide or sth lurkin around. or like a zombie baby i was also scared of that.

and it rly did follow her dad. and i loved that aspect too not bc i love that abt them obviously and im an annoying leftist but it was like she had to survive as a woman, her father is literally like bitch i will kill u, so yea she had to fucking figure it out and it isnt excused shes literally psychotic and under pressure. great. i couldnt either with the women lmao ioghuasiogiagohi phew . what rly helps is that pressure from the outside that exists int angible reasons and also everyone being complicit. like it's crazy to survive that it has to be a boy that's a horrific factor. so she had to figure out a way and yet she still. sucks. and her ending is just visually great and i love that actress i cannot believe her range (she plays a cutie intern in ex gf club lmao i was v surprised)

-______- i didnt know that was the story.... and yea. those types of dilemmas drive me nuts wrt zmombies like.....when have we seen in the show that there is a cure/!!? that's the other thing tho villains and decision making i think lol like what the obvious choice would be how you gonna get mad that people do the right thing when you don't?

and the revealing of the layers so as a viewer we can then sus out the complexity. are they doing anything with kingdom again? i thoguht they would do anotehr show since they meet at end of s2 but idk if bdn and whatshisface JJH? will be back. i probably won't get what i want a third season of that and stranger...sigh...

yea u feel me u rly do lol. her father's role was impeccable too and i hated him more bc of what he inflicted on her even though shes despicable so see we can empathize with being a woman and also know that bitches are crazy. RIP to that family you tried guys

yes omg it is so weird to watch him do that u hit the nail on the head lol this reminds me of that actor from gangnam beauty too. just something about the way he holds himself or the characters just arent written for those type of romances. that's why im surprised his gf is PSH i had no idea lol i was like ohhh he can love? in suspicious partners i wanted to die but to be fair his acting partner sucked. in the undateables it was just also strange. i think the 'nice guys waiting around' role is just not for ha

a great job thank you for taking the time and sharing. i cannot imagine doing all of this!

i would say he's a standard villain dumb bitch tbh which is why watching ok tcy was fun cos it's out there and i don't have to take it seriously (i did not and do not want to ever see any bit of that show ever again i was mad at the premise and ending)

i don't think that's what an antihero is though because dexter is a villain. i think where villains fall into the anti hero camp is when the writing failed to do what it set out to do. dexter does set out, he is evil and they tell us this. constantly lol. showtime did an ok way fo displaying unhinged white people like weeds that girl is a psychooooo but i think that show failed with it bc it tried so hard to have her be an anti hero lol but i guess maybe not in the end idk if you have seen it. part of the issue lies in with the writers wanting us to like these characters and that's when i get mad because the story doesnt allow itself to unravel. dexter only got used to that because he was gonna do it anyway and his dumb dad (right?) was like ok hey kid let's just do it to bad ppl even tho ur terrible so at that point it's people watching this thing go on. that type of story doesn't attract me but it doesn't say "serial killing but benevolent" lol i have a loooot of complaints for the serial killer/psycho trope for that reason cos it tries to do both when we don't have to empathize with shit at their urging.

ikr!!!! @ the writing

also yes honestly anti heros are the heros imo that's the only way they can be. people don't view superman as one but i do.

it's the worst when women get these roles and just become the male versions of the poor written male characters we hate. i love the [portrayal of the] daughter in kingdom that bitch was CRAZY same with SKY castle women. for kingdom it was her decay and the bloody display of her end and i really value that look at her but villainy is ugly and has to be exposed and flawed and we want to watch. the noble pursuits can turn into villainy when the person isn't right—also compelling but it has to be shown as the true ugly it is for us to be engaged. i do have a theory that because so many men are confident in the villain aspects that they think slapping it on a woman is better but it makes it worse and more obvious how lacking in anything these characters are. this is why outside of action stories these types of female characters are even worse because it doesn't factor in the societal implications imagine if we just saw the women from SKY castle being the way they are but not interacting in the rest of their life or understanding their inner turmoils with regards to others and power dynamics as well. there's something that grips us to continue to watch people and it isn't just being an unbridled asshole with just no effective emotional weight behind it. but i think in these instances the writers want us to feel bad for villains before just allowing it to be shown how they are and why they are the way they are.

i do wanna see ashin but i fucking hate female characters like that it tries so hard to get us to empathize when i sure as shit wouldn't if she weren't a gender and sexual minority because WHOMST is she being different against. like let us know these people have things going on because to make it evocative the very real insecurity and self hatred and doubt and stupidity has to be looked at for them to be hated in a capacity to make us understand them. writing 101!!!!!!!!

i used to think i was just too staunch in morals but really it's about the vulnerability aspects i think because otherwise it is uninteresting. also weighing their "villainlry" and making us think. maybe they aren't the villain. or like for s1 the dude that started the whole plague lmao dumb fucking bitch but he wasn't a villain so...frankly this is why i find serial killer stories a ssnoozefest because they lack the emotional weight bc fsr it isnt stemming from the self-hatred lmao

tbqh unless they're willing to kill teenagers out of their insane need for control and horrific self image then i don't want to see any dead teenagers! we need the GRAVITAS the jennysaykwah of "why the fuck are you the way that you are homie and what is your crazy insecure terrible ass gonna do next ooh i can't wait to see you die but i'm so interested in your neuroses and how people beat it out of you" and there could be two villains like with breaking bad!!!!!!!!! and u want one villain to win over the other and eveyrone else to get the hell away from them.

the idea of a hero is really also about the present because if the future and long-term goals aren't taken into consideration then i'm going to guess the point was a one-time thing ergo a lack of interest in meaningful change, right? what is the journey you are on and who is it for? how can someone change throughout the story? another thing that i never thought of deeply and will try to now that your analysis of FoE triggered is what do we classify as abuse and to what line can another not cross for it to be irredeemable? do we view these things as inherently abusive as i would wrt this show and ultimately can you be a hero without knowing love? (for me the answer is no)

i don’t put those people in a camp i want to care about and for some reason a lot of people think characters who are selfish and purely on survival mode are interesting when people who are like this, with clear trauma, are going to turn terrible if that festers and doesn't’ change. that's how we got here in the first place. we have to look at how power is repackaged and represented and ultimately do these people have the same goals as those they deem to be oppressive? (if effective: no but since it rarely is effective the answer becomes yes like with vincenzo which is the biggest bullshit lmao) oh and i absoluteeeellyyyy think foe falls into this bullshit trap which i am trying to untangle bc that show pisses me OFFFFFF phew because here's something i think a lot of these writers dont realize—these are malignant traits meaning the outcome is always, consistently, forever, and ever, and ever going to be pain. again nuance and complexity of humanity and also not knowing much about the psychology behind these things or oversimplifying personality disorders or certain 'dark' traits that we all have the capacity for and have.

now just because someone reacts out of anger and goes too far does not mean they are bad it means they are human. HP for ex, he goes insane and we know that he has anger issues (i am not a fan of the books but i am a huge fan of this character) but he’s also a young teen. if he goes too far in beating someone up that means his anger must be checked and he needs help with that but it doesn’t mean he’s fallen off course.


it's more than just these questions it's about what we do with them and how because ultimately we need some sort of win for the people who are the least protected and how we get there is a good exploration but it's not always some people just chomping at the bit for destruction adn revenge on their way to freedom. i would say this for all serial killer stories as well or even what foe was trying to do those are villains and we arent down for the cause with them.


i think one thing maybe is as viewers around the globe we think there's certain types of people that are able to do this in certain ways but one thing i ask myself is: would you want any of these people in your life? in any capacity? the answer to that shows me that in any situation these are people that are going to be harmful and destructive for their own gain (even if they claim it isn't.)

save me 2's whole arc is a great indicator of this because it knocks down the preconceived notions. heros are outcasts and everything they do will generally be anti-ish as it should tbh. we start realizing this as we deconstruct the world around them. parasite if it had any "heroes" per se would be the family of con artists. just like no one is perfect, evil isn't only about selfishness it's about insecurity, doubt, self hatred, not just lack of awareness or not caring. to me, jeff bezos is a villain but in storytelling world and for other people that may not be the same. but because our real societies all over the world aren't set up for this kind of thinking then that affects these type of heroic stories. part of it is also a misunderstanding of humanity and personality disorders and traits because the point of things like ASPD is that they are /negative/ and willconsistently destroy your life there is never a positive presentation of it for it to actually be the issue that it is. personality disorders are insanely hard to identify bc a person with one wont know and there are other reasons why they will have to get help

and a big one is: willingness to sacrifice the self which makes a line between the it. i dont really believe in shades of grey because we all have choices to make. it comes down to what we have as our ideals and beliefs. the good detective is surprisingly a GREAT example of this it is a show full of these ideas and it is relentless against its characters. it is not perfect by any means but this is the first show i have seen of that nature that tells you straight up what it is and isn't allowing us to waver in knowing their characters and we can feel that disgust over the actions. but it is worth noting that the writers, from the beginning, have set up this world in letting you know that the "good/bad" we see is not real (and is acknowledged byt he police by themselves saying theyre just as bad as everyone else, they just have a job that lets them act it out more)

i'm not sure if the anti-hero exists because it hink every hero should be an anti-hero. to be a hero you are going so far against the grain that even the "positive" people in your life find it to be a detriment. human beings are not capable of perfection and often times the most "righteous" heros are the most destructive. it also depends on the way the story is set up and it makes you think. for ex, is magneto wrong in X-Men?

thank you sooo much for this! i can't wait to watch ashin of the north. i'm also completely down with just straight up destruction with no excuses done well like the wailing and there's a moral of it but it is insane or the truth beneath has an "anti hero" ish but all these make much more complex and compelling narratives around good/evil and our reactions to it. the shades of grey is just humanity. i absolutely draw the line for heros oer needless harm because tht's when the selfishness prevails and it is the very same system. a lot of these issues i find arise in c-novels as well over "good" "bad" and "complex" as if it's hard because it's more than actions like you stated. but just because you are fighgting the police doesn't mean you are allowed to become the cop too.

my country is an example of this CONSISTENTLY failing and it is so hypocritical and mindblowing because what i find ends up happening with these antiheros is repackaging harm so they are, again, just the villain. you want what others have.

kingdom itself has good examples of this but i would just call these things dilemmas. if we strip the idea of perfection away we can really see it. superman is a great anti-hero honestly and it's a better journey because no matter the situation when you fight for freedom you are an outcast and it is not the world's view that you shoudl win and i wish more people would explore that and also look at the origins of our superhero stories (like for ex in the US like i mentioned x men and comics and stuff were made because of post WWII by jewish people and it is FASCINATING however it has become pro-imperial, police, etc propaganda in the movies and in the comics themselves thus dissolving the radical nature)

another thing: would we call malcolm x an antihero? (i know i am invoking another name but this is intentional) what happens if we reshape this?

my number one anti hero like a true true i think of what we think an anti-hero "should" be is Stranger s1 and i will never be over it and the legacy that it left and how deftly the writers managed to write two seasons off of that (annd hopefully a third.) he is a perfect exampe of a journey and a subversion of expectation in the writing AND execution and it puts the series in an insane amount of perspective. we still don;t know how to feel about that character because of how deep it is (at least for me.) it's been one of my favorite things to explore and i think the good detective took a lot of cues from it which is why i liked what it did in its show probably.

i LOVE this topic because i genuinely think when writing about any of these things we're not great at it lol with's court is another ex of an "anti hero" when really that bitch just sucks and deserves to get her ass beat. she would ruin anything and it starts from allowing soeone to be sexually assaulted and outing another person. all of that? and then it isn't spoken up for or about

oooh another great great example of this is special inspector jo which does a good job and what i love about the show besides everything is that it tugs on your heartstrings even though you hate the anti hero who is really a dumbass honestly and traumatized it's like you get it and at the end they make the scrifice but jo is an anti-hero too.

my motto is: no crime if there's no law.

thank you for the breakdown! btw im saving this article it gave me lots to think about and will be super helpful with my writing and my interpretation of it and helping me to expand my own mind and rethink these characters. i do not like FoE and i think it explains my issues with some of the ways this topic is approached but it is valuable to see the way it is processed by others.


i'm going through it and lookin gat the examples you gave. interesting analysesssss i have a lot of thoughts this is something i think about A LOT because i genuinely think it is not handled well lol. they forget about personalities and the real issue which is the hierarchies created within power and how this manifests in the past, present, and future. btw stranger is, for me, a great example of what i think we think of when the word 'anti hero' comes to mind. anti hero = arch angel gabriel who fell or lucifer which is important to note because those are both still "lights" and "angels" so we ask why did they fall/leave? maybe because "God" was wrong. when you think anarchist, what do you think? what if i said i was one? these are questions that aren't grappled with.

i have a hard time writing characters who i think are bad which is actually a huge detriment to me as an artist and shows a blind spot in my creativity but to many others when they have seen my material they have garnered a lot of negativity and that’s due to the packaging. who is presenting (man or woman), why, is it justified? but the perceptions are all based in sociopolitical climates and analyses—another reason why art isn't apolitical. if we also think about how we’re all operating in fight or flight as a society and we don’t have much healthy aspects as resources in our current world then we can know that not everyone has been able to have the same foundation. and yet there seems to be a pattern where people who strive for the best will get the best even if they stumble. why wouldn’t a kid be a selfish and arrogant coward? but i would say this brand of selfishness of the kid (first example i forgot his name) means that you (as in the character) don’t know the meaning and value of the life you want so you’re left to fend it alone.

people who don’t feel remorse, love, the camaraderie aspects of the goals of heroism are not heroes. BUT a villain can value camaraderie too because, to me, the fraternity mentality of imperialism is villainous because of the hierarchy and violence it is based off of. for the show DP (haven’t watched but just for ex) they’re not positioning the army as good but from an outside perspective we expect most things to, in the end fall ,into the same structures of hierarchy and order and most times that’s when the “anti hero” or what i like to call just complex humans living gets push back. it really is not that difficult to choose between “good” and “bad” but there’s so many factors going into that. i will argue that every one of these things that sets up a story and a clear objective takedown is going to want the Other to win but do they think about what these groups of peoples lives are like after that outcome and how it will be arranged? i dont think so. heroism is really about innnovation honestly and people hate change—think about spiderman being a vigilante and that being wrong.



(gonna continue in comment with spoiler tag)

this is how i feel for the most part

ohhh the dude who played tae hyun!

oohhh lmao sorry i am exhausted i misunderstood ugh he looks os good

dont care

super cute

cant believe it finally got subs and now that i understand it it's even better!!! super cute ugh kim seul gi is such a charm