Kimsamsoom

once again, you ignore what I wrote. And just write what you want to write. oh dear...

This is obviously a one sided debate. Where there is no factual rebuttal. Just repetitive rhetoric.

Ok Charlotte you win!

KTEM is best show globally!

P.S. I should thank you by the way, I feel my writing has improved talking to you.

Thank you for not considering me a hater, because i'm not. I'm a critic of not this show, but many shows in MDL. Plus, people are afraid of me because I will attack them?

When have I personally attacked someone? But I can show you where I have been personally attacked by defenders. Should I post them here?

This comment section, is a platform where people can discuss the show, rave about it, or criticze it. You and I, should not muzzle the freedom of speech of people. We are not a democracy here. Also, I will not contradict something if I agree with it. And I will only agree with something if it's a fact based statement. But even subjective statements, I myself have claimed, sure thing that is your opinion. So please don't see me as just attacking people, when I don't. It's insulting.

Now the argument here is about wavve. People were claiming it had 14 mil subcribers.

I just merely investigated and show that this is not true. At MOST wavv has 2 million subscribers. With the last data set I saw, implying it had only 1.4M. Behind netflix.

The total viewership population for ALL OTT is 10 million. TOTAL. And this includes all streaming services which include netflix and youtube and other ones.

I only question the ones I feel there are inaccuracies to, or the one presenting misleading statements. Because that is my personality, I don't like people misleading others.

It has nothing to do with me wanting to thrash the show to make sure people don't watch it. In fact, I have said several times in this comment section that people shoud watch it and ignore the ratings and comments. If you like it, you like it, if you don't you don't

Did I ever say anywhere in my post that Neilsen was the most accurate thing in the world? Of course it has inaccuracies. Neilsen polls 1% of the population of course it is bound to have inaccuracies.

My point about the number of employees and size of Neilsen is to point out the legitimacy of the company, and the minds at work at the company to make sure the information is as accurate as possible taking away certain factors. Do you think, just anyone can be a Neilsen family? There are steps to be one.

What does flix patrol have to prove their legitimacy? Your say so? It's not enough. You claiming flix patrol is a bible of ratings, is like me saying MDL is the only thing we shoud listen to. If a show is rated low in MDL, this must be true, if its rated high, it must be the gospel. Cmon lol, you know this is not true.

Movie Database? Please elaborate on this. Also exactly how is Flixpatrol global rankings objective? The metrics is based on Netflix top 10, which has a flawed way of calculating Viewers. There's also been talks about how the top 10 are mostly Netflix originals/produced shows.

You are basically saying this. "Well I know there are 1,000 articles saying smoking is bad for you, but I found a website saying smoking is good for the lungs, so all you haters can be quiet, because the website I found is the most accurate website in the world, and I'm not going to be quiet, until everyone smokes."

Copied verbatim from the flix patrol website. They use the data from Netflix Top 10. The same thing I am claiming

"flixpatrol provides VOD charts and streaming charts worldwide. You can find here all the Netflix charts (Netflix TOP 10), also iTunes charts, Amazon Prime charts, or HBO charts. These streaming insights are based on the official trending or the most popular movies on VOD. We cover the most-watched movies and the most popular TV shows in 2020. Flixpatrol also offers selected VOD sales and numbers for movies everyone’s watching. TOP 10 lists are daily updated."

It's not speculation, Netflix has said, that is how they count views. Two mintues of viewing time. Are you reading the articles I am linking? I have, I feel it a bit insulting, i'm taking the time to make a well crafted response to you, and your just effectively saying, "lol I don't care, imma keep doing me". By ignoring what i'm saying, your essentially agreeing to it you know.

Reading your answer, I've realized, you didn't bother to read even half of what I wrote. Which is tragic, as I spent time to back up my explanations. And for a second I thought we would have a thought provoking discussion. You just did not provide any factual rebuttals.

Your reply to my post, can be summarize in one line.

"Nuh uh, your wrong, if I cover my ears, I can't hear you!!"

You've made these same comments about flix patrol several times as well. And you've brought up the ratings debate several times, eventhough, I myself, have said not to do so, because it should not matter in the end. Bringing ratings to the equation to convince people the show is good, just creates controversy and potentially increase the toxicity of these boards.

Have you ever seen me post "lol! KTEM is less than 10% what a flop?" No, I don't because I ignore the local ratings.

it goes both ways you know calling people out, when you are doing the same thing you are saying they are doing.

If you look at other similarly panned shows on MDL, the comment sections are the same. Mostly negative, reflecting what most people thought of the show. It's not so surprising.

https://kisskh.at/4236-big

https://kisskh.at/14457-cheese-in-the-trap

Compare that to MDL comments of good shows

https://kisskh.at/35729-emergency-lands-of-love

https://kisskh.at/36269-doctor-playbook

You are comparing a publicly traded company that employs 46,000 people worldwide, with Flix patrol, a website that was created no more than 7 months ago? by people, who by their own admission, just love streaming. Also please, pray tell and show me an advertiser, entertainment company, or production company, that uses flix patrol in their decision making.

And your heavily implying flix patrol is more accurate than Neilsen. Eventhough Neilsen very clearly explains how its metrics are derived, while flix patrol doesn't? The reason you can't find data for flixpatrol in 2019 is because the feature top 10 in netflix only started in 2020. Also once again, you are downplaying the importance of local ratings to prop up international ratings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_Holdings

You're statement here has a few inaccuracies and misleading statements. Let me just address the more glaring ones.

First off, the new netflix feature Top 10 in Netflix is a new feature. It was rolled out in early 2020.

https://media.netflix.com/en/company-blog/see-whats-popular-on-netflix

Flix patrol though, from what I can gather, is completely basing it's ratings on the Top 10 feature of NFLX. A metric they do not control, nor do they know how it is properly calculated. They just update based on what they see in their screens in a particular country.

Here is another website showing the same ratings, and discussing how these numbers are based on the top 10 on netflix feature.

https://www.whats-on-netflix.com/most-popular/

Here is an articles from Forbes discussing how the new feature is a possible way for Netflix to "Plug" it's own shows, KTEM falls under this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2020/02/25/netflixs-top-10-what-is-it-and-why-has-it-shown-up-now/#517ef4783e61

NFLX considers a show as viewed, after you watch TWO MINUTES of a show. Let that sink in, two minutes of a show. FYI in the past, they tracked viewership when someone has viewed 70% of the show. So, if someone views it for 2-5 minutes, get's bored, or not interested and watches something else. That counts as a view. I myself have watched the trailer for the show, then decide to move on, or watch 3 minutes of a show and switched elsewhere.

https://www.thrillist.com/entertainment/nation/netflix-top-10-list-feature

Critics have already panned the new metric, calling it a manipulative way for Netflix to manipulate it's views.

https://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-netflix-ratings-20190124-story.html

https://www.wired.com/story/netflix-viewership-two-minutes/

Please consider this rating from China, one of the biggest countries in the world. With over 37,000 votes, they ranked it 7.3/10. I believe China is the 2nd biggest consumer of Kdrama in the world. You will also find a lot of articles in China criticizing KTEM.

So in Korea, the biggest consumer of Kdrama content, the ratings are low. In China, the second most biggest consumer of Kdrama content, it's panned. But let's consider the smaller Kdrama consuming international market as more accurate?

https://movie.douban.com/subject/33437305//

Lastly, I'm pretty sure majority of people don't come to the comment section to decide whether to watch KTEM or not. Most will at least watch 1-5 episodes, then come to the comment section. If they want to watch it, ratings, either locally or internationally should not matter.

Anyway, I love these discussions. And as I've said to you before, let us just ignore Neilsen ratings, NFLX viewerships, international viewership, and wavve viewership. Instead, lets focus on the shows positive and negative aspects and engage in good discussions.

I initially thought it would make for a very cool plot device, that rather than parallel worlds, ROK and KOC are on the same timeline, just different time period.

So in my mind, Kingdom of Corea is actually the year 1994. And Republic of Korea is actually 2020.

So we are in essence seeing the present/past = KOC
And the future = ROK

oh god, don't remind me about all those plot holes, lol

lol, this is comedy gold!

By the way, I don't remember.

But did they ever explain the link of ES and JY?

I seem to recall one episode JY get's burned by coffee and ES while holding bubble tea, also felt the heat?

Sorry in advance for silly question

lol, this is epic, I want at least half these things to happen!

lol at these,
specially loved the TE and SJ convo lol. That is exactly what went down.

I could use a good laugh, can you give me the link for the soompi one?

I agree, I also have a problem with sudden memories and disappearing things.

Also just as an added head scratcher, are we to assume that time does not move at all in the time space world? How do the flowers grow then?

And if we assume time just moves slowly, wouldn't LG technically be 4 months older than what he is suppose to be in Ep 15?

And if he is 4 months older, how does he merge with his past self?

Plot twist!

To be honest, this is all just a waste of time to talk about the numbers It's all 3rd hand information with unreliable sources. Unless you and I own wavve, who knows how many people are actually using it.

Anyway here is an article this year. Wavve is still behind Netflix in Korea and has approx 1.4M subscribers as of Jan 2020.

https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=3072407

Here is another article. 3.4% market share for netflix and 2% for wavve. We know NFLX has 2M subscribers approximately. Youtube is king in Korea apparently.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200301000103

Here is another article talking about how the success of OTT services may be short lived.

https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2020/05/689_288778.html

I know where the numbers of 14M came from, i've seen the articles. But it's just not accurate.

Here is another article detailing total number of OTT providers in SK. Key word here is total. with revenues of $58,000,000 and average cost of about $6. Total number of subscribers is approx 10,000,000 subscribers. BUT this is split between netflix, disney plus, apple tv, youtube, wavve and etc... So it's not like it's 10M subscribers for wavve alone.

https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2020/04/689_287407.html

Anyway, agree to disagree.

I still cannot fathom, why the umbrella he always carries around, he just dumps in favor of a gun, an old timey gun.

I also still don't understand by the way, why the gun doesn't work. I'm explained before that in previous time freezes, we are shown physics, chemistry are all still in play.

An example of this is when LG is holding the newspaper, it is falling way before time even resumes, So gravity is working here.

Another example is when JY is time froze, LG writes a note saying "Do you believe now" using a ballpoint pen. If LG's gun trigger won't pull, the ballpoint should not be working either, because the process of the ink coming out of a ballpoint pen is mechanical, just like the gun. But ofc LG has no problem writing the message down.

Too many time freeze inconsistencies.

Always in favor of LG, never for LR lol, poor villain

wavve, from all i'm reading is not free, it's a streaming platform similar to netflix, actually it competes with netflix.

15 million paying subscribers in Korea is A LOT. Like a lot a lot, Keep note population of korea is 50ish million, and the people who would most likely pay for a subscription like wavve is between 20-40 years old.

The demographic for 20-40 million people is 20 million people, with a little bit more being females. Since it's understood most drama watchers are females, the numbers get even smaller.

2M of 20 mil are NFLX subscribers.

So you are assuming that 77% of the viewing population, approx 18M, of korea ages 20-40 are using wavve. A paid service. If Wavve was free, this may be possible, but it's not.

This is just near impossible IMO.

Netflix doesn't even have these numbers. The us has approx 60M accounts, and the population of people in US who are 20-40 is 110M approximately. So that's just 60%. But netflix has been around MUCH MUCH MUCH longer than wavve has.

Do you understand where I am coming from? I have to ask, because I very clearly already wrote, why I think the number of 15m subscribers are misleading and I placed a lot of factual data to support my statement and it seems you just ignored all of it to write your piece.

I've forgotten the first rule of the internet. Do not feed the trolls.

My mistake, thanks for reminding me.

Planned a coup to kill LG and his father.

FAIL

Planned on getting the second half of the flute, to for some reason not explained, to be able to enter LR's father's time space world and enter another time in the past aside from the coup .

FAIL

Planned to build an army to be able to be able to challenge for the monarchy in Corea.

FAIL

Plan to tell his past self about his failure during the coup to change the future.

FAIL

Planned to have a nurse nearby to prevent fake LG mom from dying

FAIL

Planned to use dopplegangers in place in Korea to serve as spies and political allies

FAIL

Planned to kidnap TE as bait for LG

FAIL

Planned to kill TE with his henchmen

FAIL

Planned to use fake LG mom to surprise citizens that the queen is still alive.

FAIL

Planned to blackmail SJ to kill LG

FAIL

Plan to kill LG using a old timey rifle.

FAIL

Why I think LR has become the worst Villain in all of Kdrama. My thoughts. Let me know if i'm missing any other failures.