Are people really confused on why the ML is still madly in "love" with the FL after all that sh*t show she pulled on him? Like how's this plot considered romantic? If you were to reverse the genders of the characters, this plot would be written more as a revenge thriller. Man there is something fundamentally wrong with these characters sugar coated with the plot as romanticists when they really are a simp (ML) and a mentally unhealthy (FL) duo. The ML needs a backbone and self esteem while the FL needs psychiatric assistance. They certainly don't need each other, that was apparent when it didn't work the 2 times they tried.
It's is simple really; the target audience of the said story decides what's accepted and celebrated and the target audience of most kdramas are female audience (mostly the late 20s and early 30s, for this drama). Now you can imagine what a sh*t storm would have been created if you were to reverse the genders of the said story with the same audience.
Providing consumers with what they consume the most is business 101. This is a tried and safe formula and the ingredients of the said formula are simple; momentary elevation of pleasant emotions. The kdrama writers know that and mostly write just to achieve the standardized formula that people consume. The debate for production houses isn't whether prolonged exposure to the said formula is spiritually healthy or artistic but the rate of consumption (revenue generated) and frankly the writers or production houses aren't exactly known to care for the spiritual health of thier audience or artistry in the present day.
There's limited cinematic experiences that can cover the above said qualities with honesty and legitimacy.
That being said, I'm perfectly fine with the consumption of cinema that provides momentary escapism and the writers' need to cater to that demand but my heart hurts a little (call me overly dramatic and I'll agree) seeing cinematic art of honesty and legitimacy as a dying market especially in the kdrama land.
You said that you don't understand why people are saying that he should have gotten over her, not that they said that it's unrealistic. And PLAUSIBLE reality is an abstract concept. I haven't seen anyone like that. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because the human history is an awfully long duration. I am still willing to grant that but only to the "waiting for decades" point. I have objections to their dynamics after that shit storm. I guess that's the most unrealistic part that he still looks like he is willing to spend the rest of his miserable existence in just the illusion of seeing her smile. I see how it can be stimulating as a viewer but I guess i will die on this hill that it is just a fantasy.
Yes you do understand the crux of the issues I have with this portrayals of fiction but I will add something more which I have repeated multiple times; that I have no intrest in the character and that's the point behind my (and many others) criticism. You saying you can't understand this comes across as intentional and not just a disagreement.
Yes we can find a plethora of experiences if we track back down every single existence through thousands of years of human history. Will we find someone like the ML? It will be dishonest if I simply said no. Yes, it is possible but the probability of such happening has little to do with my insistence that the writers has only shown such because it grabs more minds of its demographic base and the base responding only because it's their fantasy. Do I see relatability to the trope from people? No and the occurrence of the abstract happening outside my world has zero value to me if it cannot grab my intrest. There's zero relatability for me in his very "unrealistic" nature.
And I will not pretend that watching something so unhealthy to the same effect as it is uninteresting has me on the edge of my seat. Someone putting a stop to an aspect of their very existence is so interesting 🙄 I have zero intrest about an unchanging and unlearning character.
And will you also require a drama about domestic abuse to not tell you that it is showcasing something "unhealthy" and "inappropriate"? Let's see Ed Sheeran's perfect in the background in a pink room with a child in the crib laughing while a person is beating another. I am exaggerating here of course but I see no argument in your baltent ignorance of why cinema shouldn't only be reflective of reality but also "correctly" portray someone's misery. Waiting decades or more like living in the memory of someone married for decades is as miserable of an existence as one can expect but they won't show that and that's why it's a figment of imagination and unrealistic to me. How a relationship will work between them now? I mean it would be interesting if he just pulls himself together and go to a therapist. That will help far more than a relationship.
And yes I have problem with the whole arc line not just him waiting for her but both are synergistic to the meaning and effect of the other. Him waiting for her but now realizing something different and working on himself is something I can get behind. That shows growth. Him waiting for her but now getting into a relationship with her shows nothing about him as an individual. He's just reduced to a romantic aspect only and that's redundant at best.
I didn't say or indicate that and I don't know if you're intentionally ignoring my very clearly written points to help your argument. You friendship situation involved a very convincing reason that's absent from the ML's character; Social anxiety. The ML is the way he's because it appeals to the demographic it's written for. Some hopeless romanticist. I will not bother to spin this otherwise.
When did I say that I don't understand anything? I'm confused. I was referring to your original comment where you said that you don't understand people who criticise the trope under discussion and then when I argued that there's nothing interesting about this troupe, you jumped to the conclusion that I was attacking you subjective reality. Your whole argument implied that you can't even fathom that a freaking fantasy will seem like a fantasy to some people. I mean I understand why you're interested in this plot and I will not act like your subjective experience is something not even understandable. If you can't understand someone's subjective reality about a fictional character, why would you even bother to make a defense against it?
Two episodes? This trope has been repeatedly revisited by the industry multiple times so I can predict (maybe i will be proven wrong) with some accuracy on what the dynamics of romance will be. and yes we can disagree with appropriation and mainly the intrest part of the experience but don't then say that you don't understand why people have criticisms about this trope. Surely you can grant people the courtesy of what you've granted yourself; subjectivity and individual opinions based upon it. Comparing your friendship situation to someone waiting decades for a married woman isn't argumentative comparison and using this to indicate like other opinions are un-factual is dishonest.
Hyper focusing on one of the sentences of the argument presented doesn't even present a genuine defense, on your part, of the claim I have repeated 2 times now.
So you do accept that it is unhealthy. That was one of my points. Other being, this whole setup reducing the ML (a full fledged human being) to just the obsessively romantic aspect of it. That's nothing about that that's vaguely appropriate or interesting as plot lines. Does a one dimensional stuck up character appeal to you more than say, the FL? The lack of interest do contribute to the hyper resonance of the same criticism in this comment section. Silver lining playbook had the unhealthy part of it presented accurately. A learning character has redeeming aspects to him or her and that's what makes me root for them.
That's not what I objected to and you know it. Social anxiety can be very convincing reason to a limited interaction. That's not what ails the ML here. He is only what he is as a character because he is still in "love" with the FL and that "love" enabling him to not feel anything for another woman (love or attraction) for 15 years is neither romantic nor realistic (at least not for me). Seems more like unhealthy obsession to me.
Do you shut yourself to the concept or idea of friendship only because some friendships didn't end well? Nobody is objecting to the memories of a relationship. People have genuine suspicions that someone waiting 15 years for a person is presented as romanticism. That's not romantic, that's fantasy of a mind trying to sell something unrealistic; the writer. Don't pretend otherwise and please don't intentionally misunderstand what many with genuine criticisms have to say.
"simp" - lol, so many people are obsessed with the word, and this logic is like saying that both must…
The original comment never implied anything to that effect. I know you're angry because you disagree with what it's saying but you don't have to be. Certainly, there's no need or honesty in putting words to it that weren't there.
So the discussion that, a "selfless and infinitely patient" male lead and a "slightly unstable and…
Goddamn right! Why does it matter from a character construction point of view if the male lead has been waiting for one and a half decade? It doesn't, except that the trope appeals to the fantasy of the audience this drama was created for. The current production houses are not too concerned with spiritual growth or inspiration through cinema. They are concerned with pulling more numbers and unfortunately these shallow tropes pull the most. It's not artistic, spiritual, relatable or any other qualitative experience and it doesn't need to be because this can make the production houses more revenue. It's sad and frustrating but it is what it is.
i wish i could enter those women's minds and understand what do they find attractive in that kind of behaviour,…
IDK. Maybe being loved unconditionally and eternally by a man is something they find attractive even when the said illusion is just a whimsical imagination of a writer trying to sell the starry idea of those emotions while trying to utilize broad networks flooded with mediocre content.
Are people really confused on why the ML is still chasing and madly in "love" with the FL after what she did and the story's insistence on why that is a plausible character arc in a crime thriller fiction? It's is simple really; the target audience of the said story decides what's accepted and celebrated and the target audience of most kdramas are female audience (mostly the late 20s and early 30s, for this drama). Now you can imagine what a sh*t storm would have been created if you were to reverse the genders of the said story with the same audience.
Providing consumers with what they consume the most is business 101. This is a tried and safe formula and the ingredients of the said formula are simple; momentary elevation of pleasant emotions. The kdrama writers know that and mostly write just to achieve the standardized formula that people consume. The debate for production houses isn't whether prolonged exposure to the said formula is spiritually healthy or artistic but the rate of consumption (revenue generated) and frankly the writers or production houses aren't exactly known to care for the spiritual health of thier audience or artistry in the present day.
There's limited cinematic experiences that can cover the above said qualities with honesty and legitimacy.
That being said, I'm perfectly fine with the consumption of cinema that provides momentary escapism and the writers' need to cater to that demand but my heart hurts a little (call me overly dramatic and I'll......agree 🙁) seeing cinematic art of honesty and legitimacy as a dying market especially in the kdrama land.
I like it, so far, BUT I also know that I won't be able to keep liking it till the end. The plot and character arcs are too visibly naive and frustrating (not in a good way) for a realistic plot build up. I like the way they chose to went with the relationships. I would very much like it if they keep it that way till the end. Sure the SFL seems a little dishonest now but there are 10 episodes remaining and that's enough for her character development and to carve a genuine and realistic character arc for the ML. I know that's too much to wish from a Kdrama but please, for the love everything lovely, don't make him a stuck up idiot (a simp to put it bluntly) who stops living without the "not very enthusiastic and nice" FL around him. I don't even know why he likes her so much. Now coming to the FL. I like that she didn't drag or lead the ML on and chose someone for her. I think she's happy and it's completely fine if the ML and FL end up with other people more compatible with them. What I wouldn't like so much is if the writer just overturns all that to fulfill the cliche of making the FL coming around to pursue the ML. That's not realistic or likeable. Now I know what's coming next but that would make me hate the ML and lose all respect for the FL. I hope I'm proven wrong as this is my second drama after almost 2 years.
Tbh there's all kinds of people (grownups) with varying levels of maturity and development, no matter their age.…
Well that's true. Like I said, I'm glad people seem to like it but characters of that spectrum aren't my cup of tea. Sure I would have liked them and maybe would've found them relatable 5 years back but not now. I feel like they are too immature for me to actually pay attention or too conventionally written for me care for them as characters and I provided reasons for it. So yeah, it is what it is.
It's is simple really; the target audience of the said story decides what's accepted and celebrated and the target audience of most kdramas are female audience (mostly the late 20s and early 30s, for this drama). Now you can imagine what a sh*t storm would have been created if you were to reverse the genders of the said story with the same audience.
Providing consumers with what they consume the most is business 101. This is a tried and safe formula and the ingredients of the said formula are simple; momentary elevation of pleasant emotions. The kdrama writers know that and mostly write just to achieve the standardized formula that people consume. The debate for production houses isn't whether prolonged exposure to the said formula is spiritually healthy or artistic but the rate of consumption (revenue generated) and frankly the writers or production houses aren't exactly known to care for the spiritual health of thier audience or artistry in the present day.
There's limited cinematic experiences that can cover the above said qualities with honesty and legitimacy.
That being said, I'm perfectly fine with the consumption of cinema that provides momentary escapism and the writers' need to cater to that demand but my heart hurts a little (call me overly dramatic and I'll agree) seeing cinematic art of honesty and legitimacy as a dying market especially in the kdrama land.
Anyway, I'm done.
And PLAUSIBLE reality is an abstract concept. I haven't seen anyone like that. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because the human history is an awfully long duration. I am still willing to grant that but only to the "waiting for decades" point. I have objections to their dynamics after that shit storm. I guess that's the most unrealistic part that he still looks like he is willing to spend the rest of his miserable existence in just the illusion of seeing her smile. I see how it can be stimulating as a viewer but I guess i will die on this hill that it is just a fantasy.
Yes we can find a plethora of experiences if we track back down every single existence through thousands of years of human history. Will we find someone like the ML? It will be dishonest if I simply said no. Yes, it is possible but the probability of such happening has little to do with my insistence that the writers has only shown such because it grabs more minds of its demographic base and the base responding only because it's their fantasy. Do I see relatability to the trope from people? No and the occurrence of the abstract happening outside my world has zero value to me if it cannot grab my intrest. There's zero relatability for me in his very "unrealistic" nature.
And I will not pretend that watching something so unhealthy to the same effect as it is uninteresting has me on the edge of my seat. Someone putting a stop to an aspect of their very existence is so interesting 🙄
I have zero intrest about an unchanging and unlearning character.
And will you also require a drama about domestic abuse to not tell you that it is showcasing something "unhealthy" and "inappropriate"? Let's see Ed Sheeran's perfect in the background in a pink room with a child in the crib laughing while a person is beating another. I am exaggerating here of course but I see no argument in your baltent ignorance of why cinema shouldn't only be reflective of reality but also "correctly" portray someone's misery. Waiting decades or more like living in the memory of someone married for decades is as miserable of an existence as one can expect but they won't show that and that's why it's a figment of imagination and unrealistic to me.
How a relationship will work between them now? I mean it would be interesting if he just pulls himself together and go to a therapist. That will help far more than a relationship.
And yes I have problem with the whole arc line not just him waiting for her but both are synergistic to the meaning and effect of the other. Him waiting for her but now realizing something different and working on himself is something I can get behind. That shows growth. Him waiting for her but now getting into a relationship with her shows nothing about him as an individual. He's just reduced to a romantic aspect only and that's redundant at best.
You friendship situation involved a very convincing reason that's absent from the ML's character; Social anxiety. The ML is the way he's because it appeals to the demographic it's written for. Some hopeless romanticist. I will not bother to spin this otherwise.
When did I say that I don't understand anything? I'm confused. I was referring to your original comment where you said that you don't understand people who criticise the trope under discussion and then when I argued that there's nothing interesting about this troupe, you jumped to the conclusion that I was attacking you subjective reality. Your whole argument implied that you can't even fathom that a freaking fantasy will seem like a fantasy to some people. I mean I understand why you're interested in this plot and I will not act like your subjective experience is something not even understandable. If you can't understand someone's subjective reality about a fictional character, why would you even bother to make a defense against it?
and yes we can disagree with appropriation and mainly the intrest part of the experience but don't then say that you don't understand why people have criticisms about this trope. Surely you can grant people the courtesy of what you've granted yourself; subjectivity and individual opinions based upon it.
Comparing your friendship situation to someone waiting decades for a married woman isn't argumentative comparison and using this to indicate like other opinions are un-factual is dishonest.
Other being, this whole setup reducing the ML (a full fledged human being) to just the obsessively romantic aspect of it. That's nothing about that that's vaguely appropriate or interesting as plot lines. Does a one dimensional stuck up character appeal to you more than say, the FL?
The lack of interest do contribute to the hyper resonance of the same criticism in this comment section. Silver lining playbook had the unhealthy part of it presented accurately. A learning character has redeeming aspects to him or her and that's what makes me root for them.
Seems more like unhealthy obsession to me.
Nobody is objecting to the memories of a relationship. People have genuine suspicions that someone waiting 15 years for a person is presented as romanticism. That's not romantic, that's fantasy of a mind trying to sell something unrealistic; the writer.
Don't pretend otherwise and please don't intentionally misunderstand what many with genuine criticisms have to say.
Why does it matter from a character construction point of view if the male lead has been waiting for one and a half decade? It doesn't, except that the trope appeals to the fantasy of the audience this drama was created for. The current production houses are not too concerned with spiritual growth or inspiration through cinema. They are concerned with pulling more numbers and unfortunately these shallow tropes pull the most. It's not artistic, spiritual, relatable or any other qualitative experience and it doesn't need to be because this can make the production houses more revenue. It's sad and frustrating but it is what it is.
Maybe being loved unconditionally and eternally by a man is something they find attractive even when the said illusion is just a whimsical imagination of a writer trying to sell the starry idea of those emotions while trying to utilize broad networks flooded with mediocre content.
I think our minds synched for a moment while reading your comment.
It's is simple really; the target audience of the said story decides what's accepted and celebrated and the target audience of most kdramas are female audience (mostly the late 20s and early 30s, for this drama). Now you can imagine what a sh*t storm would have been created if you were to reverse the genders of the said story with the same audience.
Providing consumers with what they consume the most is business 101. This is a tried and safe formula and the ingredients of the said formula are simple; momentary elevation of pleasant emotions. The kdrama writers know that and mostly write just to achieve the standardized formula that people consume. The debate for production houses isn't whether prolonged exposure to the said formula is spiritually healthy or artistic but the rate of consumption (revenue generated) and frankly the writers or production houses aren't exactly known to care for the spiritual health of thier audience or artistry in the present day.
There's limited cinematic experiences that can cover the above said qualities with honesty and legitimacy.
That being said, I'm perfectly fine with the consumption of cinema that provides momentary escapism and the writers' need to cater to that demand but my heart hurts a little (call me overly dramatic and I'll......agree 🙁) seeing cinematic art of honesty and legitimacy as a dying market especially in the kdrama land.
Anyway, I'm done and do pardon if i bored you.
The plot and character arcs are too visibly naive and frustrating (not in a good way) for a realistic plot build up.
I like the way they chose to went with the relationships. I would very much like it if they keep it that way till the end. Sure the SFL seems a little dishonest now but there are 10 episodes remaining and that's enough for her character development and to carve a genuine and realistic character arc for the ML. I know that's too much to wish from a Kdrama but please, for the love everything lovely, don't make him a stuck up idiot (a simp to put it bluntly) who stops living without the "not very enthusiastic and nice" FL around him. I don't even know why he likes her so much.
Now coming to the FL. I like that she didn't drag or lead the ML on and chose someone for her. I think she's happy and it's completely fine if the ML and FL end up with other people more compatible with them. What I wouldn't like so much is if the writer just overturns all that to fulfill the cliche of making the FL coming around to pursue the ML. That's not realistic or likeable.
Now I know what's coming next but that would make me hate the ML and lose all respect for the FL. I hope I'm proven wrong as this is my second drama after almost 2 years.
Like I said, I'm glad people seem to like it but characters of that spectrum aren't my cup of tea. Sure I would have liked them and maybe would've found them relatable 5 years back but not now. I feel like they are too immature for me to actually pay attention or too conventionally written for me care for them as characters and I provided reasons for it.
So yeah, it is what it is.