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  • Location: Der er et yndigt land Det står med brede bøge
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  • Join Date: February 24, 2023

DanaL

Der er et yndigt land Det står med brede bøge
Replying to itwillneverbefar Apr 22, 2024
Title Shogun
Really? He's so bold and unrelenting, though. I find his character really interesting and important in providing…
There is only 1 episode back and that is "The End". :) No coming seasons.
And you are 100% right about this way to portray John Blackthorne. In the book, he is a little of a superman. Very intelligent with a huge knowledge of the world at 1600, speaking 5 languages fluently and learning Japanese in short time. Pilot, ship builder, astronomer. Handsome and charming. Courageous and very fast in critical situations.
In this adaptation he is more human and realistic.
3 1
Replying to Aramintai Apr 21, 2024
Title Shogun
I agree with you, he's plain unlikable. Especially compared to his counterpart in the old TV series.
I think that was also their intention. Not to make from him the center. All main characters are viewed equally. None has more attention than the other, I think Toranaga is placed in the middle (without more attention, but because of the plot) and all the other characters spin around him, because he is the "spider" that weaves its web and they move on that web around him. It's a story seen by a neutral eye.
The book and the first film adaptation were made through John's eyes. Now he is just a character like any other.
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Replying to Sh_a Apr 20, 2024
Do you recommend me to watch this cause I dont know if i should mostly cause of the mother
No matter how poor, uneducated, huge ego or greed, people learn from own mistakes. She never does, making again and again the same stupid moves. Every time she goes to that hotel, something awful happens, putting Huan in an embarrassing situation. She knocks on YZM's door like crazy, without any respect for people's intimacy. She IS awful. She sticks her nose in Huan's private life again. She didn't learn anything.
0 1
Replying to MiyamotoMusashi Apr 20, 2024
Title Shogun
I agree with your sentiment in general, there are clear contradictions within her character, but I think it was…
Those orders came from Taiko, I presume. Goroda was dead already, killed by her father. Who had so much power to punish Jinsai after his "treason"? Who wanted the power from him? Who benefited from Jinsai's and all his family's death? Taiko. Ochiba. Ochiba's son. In one word Osaka, Taiko's fief. And all Taiko's allies.
In the book, it's said that Jinsai was called ironically, "The shogun of 13 days". This long he lived after killing Goroda. He opened the road for Taiko.
Mariko HAD something to avenge. She didn't feel wronged, she wanted that. That's why she fought at the gates, tried to commit seppuku and chose to die in that explosion. Not because Toranaga asked her to die. Toranaga only gave her a possibility, but he didn't force her.
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Replying to Sh_a Apr 19, 2024
Title Best Choice Ever Spoiler
Do you recommend me to watch this cause I dont know if i should mostly cause of the mother
No trigger.
It's just that in my world this kind of behavior from a parent would be unthinkable. If there is such a situation, children are removed from that family. It's considered an abuse. Children have rights and are considered small people, deserving respect, personal space, own opinions and they are encouraged to take own decisions.
To use your own daughter for getting money, house and status, without even asking about her opinion, it's unfathomable.
It's like we live in 2 different worlds. :)
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Replying to Sh_a Apr 19, 2024
Title Best Choice Ever Spoiler
Do you recommend me to watch this cause I dont know if i should mostly cause of the mother
FL told her mother many times that they broke up. It was the promise for a house that made the mother to force Huan to marry. Your daughter's life and happiness for the mother to have a house.
When the daughter said "No" she disowned and slapped her in front of everybody there. What hurt her more were the words of her relatives, her ego was wounded. And still, after months, she still expected from FL to come home and make amends.

When FL inherited those money and the hotel, she behaved like they are hers.
When she was told they have to move out from that villa, she made the owner to live in the attic, because she would lose her "rang".
She's awful. Typical a person born in poverty which suddenly has some money fallen from the sky. Maybe her intentions are good, but her methods are terrible.
I think the father is awful, too. He is the only person to correct her but for the sake of his own peace he let her doing whatever she wants. Both FL's parents are awful, each in own way. I know they love her but their love is toxic.
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Replying to Sh_a Apr 19, 2024
Title Best Choice Ever Spoiler
Do you recommend me to watch this cause I dont know if i should mostly cause of the mother
That mother is awful.
Thinking only on her own benefit, she was ready to sell her daughter into a shitty and humiliating marriage, when her plans failed she's disowned her own child. Now she is expecting and demanding everything from her daughter. If that girl didn't inherit after that sweet old lady, what a hell were her expectations? An old house without running water and a broken fridge. Now she thinks she deserves a luxury life - what is her merit for that?

She made her daughter's life a nightmare, every time she sticks her nose in her daughter's business/life there is a catastrophy. And she never says "Sorry".
She is a burden for everybody around her. All she has is a bad attitude and a stupid ego. All she wants is to brag with her status - which is not her achievement but her daughter's. If her daughter dies tomorrow she has nothing. Only demands and airs of grandeur, when she produces nothing, hanging on her daughter's neck like a stone. And everybody around her pampers her and bear her stupidity and oversized ego.

I would have a serious talk to her, telling her openly how she is and to stop making such demands. Or "Go to work! Get a job and buy yourself a house!"
Children have an awful life with such parents/family. The same for Huan's ex, for Huan, Huan's brother and Yao. A pattern. All these children have traumas because of their own parents and siblings. It's like a lesson for "Do not raise/ask your children in this way. Take some lessons in parenting".
In vain you give them birth, feed them, dress them, spoil them so they become some brats, pay their education - if everything is for your own benefit. And later you reproach them for all your efforts if they want a life other than you plan for them.
But I suppose it's common thing out there.
1 3
Replying to DanaL Apr 17, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
All Ishido's power was in having those hostages, women, children and men from all families, but especially the…
I wonder if we watched the same thing. Your questions and assertions are like about another movie :)

That castle was a huge building, with many wings and interior gardens. In modern days it would be a huge apartment complex. It was build in concentric circles, a maze of corridors and outer walkways. It was impossible to conquer the castle.
There were living dozens of families (hostages), with their own servants, cook, samurai, each in it's own separate wing/apartment, for the intimacy. Every single family had their own samurai, in own uniforms. Ishido's were dark gray, Toranaga's were brown, Kiyama's were red, Saeki's were light gray, etc. And every lord/family had it's own flag and crest.
Every family lived in own wing of the castle, guarded by own loyal samurai but they were limited in number. They were grossly outnumbered by the dark gray samurai.

Ishido could not kill them all and pretend they fled, the family's samurai would have fought against. Impossible to make something like that in secret.

Do you know what "samurai" means? It means "to serve". In the way of the samurai (Bushido), honor, justice and truth are most precious values to respect. To assassinate in the middle of the night, to use poison, to promise one thing and not keep your word, to use ninjas, etc., are disgusting and without honor. Remember how Ishido assassinated Sugiyama, the old and very respected daimyo member of the Council, with his family (episode 6)? That was also a very dirty move he made, all knew it was Ishido even if he said there were bandits who did that.
Mariko's actions are only that spark that blows his alliances up, making people in Osaka to decide changing sides and turn their back to Ishido. Nobody wants to ally with such an unworthy man. A peasant that doesn't know what a samurai is, even if one with power is still a peasant. To have power is one thing, to know how to use it with honor is a different thing.
1 1
Replying to Aramintai Apr 17, 2024
Title Shogun
Her death will spark an outrage among nobles, since so far everybody pretended to play nice. But now Ishido will…
But YES, her death gave them freedom. She had the permit to leave, whatever she died that night or not. All the other hostages will ask for permit to leave, he cannot say "No".
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Replying to DanaL Apr 17, 2024
Title Shogun
All Ishido's power was in having those hostages, women, children and men from all families, but especially the…
Well, you should have read it, because now you would not be so confused.

1. She had no time to continue after "I oppose this" - but it was enough, we all know what "this" means.

2. Ishido WOULD care, because his intention was only to kidnap her and humiliate this way. A warning to all the other hostages to stay put without rebelling. Mariko would have just disappeared, Toranaga's ladies still in the castle, he would say "I don't know who called the ninjas, it's not me". Problem solved for him. Those ninjas came especially for her, you can see them walking through the sleeping chambers, they check on Shizu and her baby but they go further without touching them.

3. So, Mariko's seppuku was a necessity at that moment.
If the witness is lying, Ishido has to prove that is a lie. He lost his credibility.
But facts speak against him. He said to Mariko a day before, in front of all people there, that "nobody is confined here" - but he made her fight at the gates, all her (Toranaga's) men died, he forced her to commit seppuku. More of that, the other 2 ladies coming to wait told Kiri that the grey samurai started to lock inside all the other ladies, they were lucky to leave earlier.
So, whatever Ishido would say, he has no chance to be believed now. He was despised before, but now he has no credit anymore.

* Mariko chosed her words with intention. When she said that she is not a peasant but a lady with a family line of 1,000 years of samurai, she targeted him directly. He said she has no manners - she hit back. He IS a peasant arrived in that high position, without any proven merit.

** They have respected the book. You saw it coming - of course you did. Mariko wanted to die, we all knew that :)

*** Some advise: "Shogun" the book has 1,300+ pages. They succeeded in making a great series in only 10 episodes. Every single second of this series is important, every word has some weight behind it. Watch carefully and you'll not be confused anymore.
Not necessary to read the book but I recommend it, one of the best books I've read in my long life.
3 3
Replying to AnHua Apr 17, 2024
Title Shogun
Am I the only one that thinks ep.9 was amazing and that ending was perfectly fit?! 😅 with so much substance…
Nope :)
1 0
Replying to Aramintai Apr 16, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
Her death will spark an outrage among nobles, since so far everybody pretended to play nice. But now Ishido will…
She knew the ninjas will blow up the door. She had no dagger on her, the ninjas wanted her alive. The only way to commit seppuku was to let herself blown up on that explosion.
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Replying to logiquement Apr 16, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
they really said no plot armour but in a dumb kind of way, I'm losing my mind lmaoo.Mariko was always about killing…
All Ishido's power was in having those hostages, women, children and men from all families, but especially the most important families in the country. They were the guarantee that their families will not go against Ishido. All hated Ishido but they were in his power.

Mariko broke their locks, when she got permission to leave all the other hostages started to ask for permission to leave. If Mariko could leave, they could leave also.
Because Ishido involved the ninjas to assassinate/kidnap Mariko, all the other daimyos will protest. Killing Mariko had no more sense, it was only a dirty and stupid revenge. If he wanted her dead, why didn't he let her commit seppuku, an honorable death? Why did he want to kill her in that humiliating way (ninjas were considered a dirty way to solve problems) when she was a noble and very respected lady?

Dying in the explosion, Mariko actually commited seppuku because otherwise she was captured alive and humiliated and all her efforts from the previous days were in vain. All the other people in that room will survive and they will testify that Mariko killed herself to avoid to be captured alive.
And Ishido is the cause of her death, a peasant arrived in a high position, while Mariko was a noble samurai lady, coming from a 1,000 years old family of samurai. And all she did was to respect her lord's orders like a real samurai does.
It was a dumb way, but it was the only way in that situation. There was no time for a classic, a ceremonial seppuku, but still an honorable seppuku.
All hostiges are free to go and all their families will come on Toranaga's side now. Ochiba realises that she indeed chose the wrong ally.
Mariko's death is the turning point in everything.
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Replying to MiyamotoMusashi Apr 16, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
I agree with your sentiment in general, there are clear contradictions within her character, but I think it was…
I expect the last episode will reveal all Toranaga's movements and judgements over the time since Blackthorne arrived in Anjiro.
The same in the book, the last 100 pages (or so) are about Toranaga's thoughts and decisions after Mariko dies and he knows what is coming next. All his secret negotiations, all his secret allies, how he convinced those allies to come on his side, etc. What he decides for John, Yabu, Omi, Fujiko, Kiku, etc. Then we will understand everything.
It's like the first 9 episodes were written in a code and the last episode is revealing that code to understand the first 9. Why Hiromatsu died, why John was not in the castle with Toranaga ("cut loose")and then forced to make an agreement with Yabu, etc.
0 1
Replying to Aramintai Apr 16, 2024
Title Shogun
Ishido was to lose either way in that situation. Perhaps he wanted to kidnap her? It kinda looked like that. Not…
He was outplayed anyway. His head is too small for that hat he wants to wear. He would have died later, betrayed by one of his generals or by Ochiba. He has no respect, the people around him despise him.
He kept all those people hostage and that was the key of his power. Mariko broke that key sacrificing herself. Actually she would have lived if Ishido didn't send the ninjas and Yabu didn't betray her.
Yes, he would have lost in any situation. But no one but Mariko would have had the courage to do what she did.
1 0
Replying to MiyamotoMusashi Apr 16, 2024
Title Shogun
I agree with your sentiment in general, there are clear contradictions within her character, but I think it was…
This series puts Toranaga on the first place, not Blackthorne. Blackthorne is kept as a main character but he is only a wheel in the mechanism.
The book and the first adaptation were made from Blackthorne's perspective. This series is somehow equal distant to all characters, with Toranaga in the middle.
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Replying to Aramintai Apr 16, 2024
Title Shogun
Ishido was to lose either way in that situation. Perhaps he wanted to kidnap her? It kinda looked like that. Not…
Kidnapping/taken prisoner for a samurai is the biggest humiliation. The enemy shouldn't capture you alive, any kind of suicide is better. Mariko was a samurai.
When John arrived in Japan and was captured by Omi and thrown in that hole in the ground with his men, Yabu wanted any member of his crew to be taken out to boil him, but not John. John and his men fought against. There were 3 samurai that went down in the hole just to grab a man and give him to Yabu. The men succeeded in taking 1 of those 3 samurai hostage. That samurai tried to suicide by drowning himself in the bucket with John's men's shit. No death is worse for a samurai than being taken prisoner.
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Replying to MiyamotoMusashi Apr 16, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
I agree with your sentiment in general, there are clear contradictions within her character, but I think it was…
Mariko lived with stigma for 15 years. She wanted to die every day of these years. Buntaro forbade it. When he wanted to die with her, she had already found a higher purpose for her death and her decision was already made.
Her plan was made before they had the tea together. She planned with Toranaga everything that happened in Osaka. Not her death, but she knew there are not big chances to leave Osaka alive. She wanted to do that, nobody forced her. With one strike she revenged her father, she gave Toranaga a huge opportunity and help, she gave to her own death a very high value and a great purpose and she died with honor, as she wished for so many years. Not even her child could change her mind. Or the threat to her child's life.
Toranaga didn't give her the order to kill herself. She could stop anytime but she chose to go all the way through. Ishido gave her the opportunity to stop and "wait for the Council decision" - he said. She said "We leave tomorrow".
Mariko was not stupid to be manipulated, she was no victim. All she did was her wish. And her death changed the history.
About Blackthorne: it seems he learnt a lot more Japanese and way of the samurai than we thought. He knew what was the most important for Mariko and he was there for her in the most important moment.
Mariko said that she is Christian but first of all she is Japanese.
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Replying to criwery Apr 16, 2024
Title Shogun
how's this one? it's only 10 ep should I give it a try? looks very serious kinda drama. what y'all say?
Yes. You'll not regret. It's great.
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Replying to Saarthak Apr 12, 2024
Title Shogun
Series is slowing down for climax and another season
There is no other season. Episode 10 is the last and that's it.
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