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  • Location: Der er et yndigt land Det står med brede bøge
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  • Join Date: February 24, 2023

DanaL

Der er et yndigt land Det står med brede bøge
Replying to AH Apr 2, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
Blackthorne speaks English, Dutch, Latin, and Portuguese. He was in possession of rutters (written sailing directions)…
Very good explanation from @logiquement.

I think you've gotten a little confused about the languages.
John Blackthorne is a polyglot, he can speak, write and read English, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese and Latin. Mariko can speak, write and read Japanese (of course), Portuguese and Latin.
How could the actors speak fluently Portuguese and Latin to respect the book in this way? Cosmo is British and Anna is Japanese. So they speak English and you should imagine they speak Portuguese and Latin. Portuguese for business and Latin to express their love for eachother.
They have to be very cautios, because around them there are many spies and many samurai were Christians and indoctrinated by the Portuguese priests, so they were Blackthorne's enemies and Mariko was in grave danger because of their relationship. Many could understand Portuguese and some could also Latin. Especially in Osaka Castle, there were more than 100,000 samurai there, mixed from many clans, but especially those from the Christian daimyos' sides were Catholics. When "their masters" became Catholics, they were ordered to become, too.
English is used for the viewers making things easier. "Shogun" has a complicated and complex plot, producers decided to make things easier for us.

Blackthorne uses English only when is very drunk, in his head to think about solving problems which he cannot speak about and when he loses his temper big time:)
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Replying to purtysunshine Mar 28, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
Does anyone know how well this follows the original story? My dad is a fan of the book so was thinking to recommend…
Pretty well. It's a little "diluted", the book is more intense and I suppose there are things they couldn't make for the screen (sex scenes, only one example when John was with Kiku and Mariko at the brothel, more like "about sex" scenes - but there are more things not only "sex" scenes).
The book is special because half of its content is with the character's thoughts and things that happened before the time of the book or memories about those events. Because Japanese in those times had to behave and act after a code of manners and respect some rituals (Bushido) and to keep themselves calm and act like indifferent, while their inner life was stormy, their feelings were very strong and powerful. Their thoughts fill half of the book - but sadly they can't be expressed on the big screen just so easy.
The story is changed here and there, without giving a big influence to the big plot.
All in all, I think your dad will not be disappointed. There are so many other things to admire to this wonderful series.
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Replying to NieLie Mar 26, 2024
Title Shogun
Majority of users in this site are women looking for romance dramas which is not the target audience of this show.
You're slippery like an eel :)
But still can't convince me.
Again: those women you're reffering to don't watch "Shogun" because it is not a romance. So they don't rate. They cannot be taken in consideration when is about rating this series.
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Replying to Panino Manino Mar 26, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
Her husband being alive or dead was irrelevant. He also won't touch her and for what I know these types of night…
He can't be sure about what is between her and Anjin. It's just his suspicion.
He is told later about Mariko and John that his suspicion was well founded. But then it's too late.
Mariko tells John in the series that she gives Buntaro nothing. Buntaro complains to Toranaga that she is cold as ice and has been like that for many years. What do you understand from this? Put 2 + 2 together.
It's not only after her father died. She despised Buntaro always, she hated that she was forced to marry him. But in the beginning she did her duty. After those 15 years apart from her son, far away and alone only because of his order, she became icecold to him.
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Replying to NieLie Mar 26, 2024
Title Shogun
Majority of users in this site are women looking for romance dramas which is not the target audience of this show.
Sory, but can't you see the nonsense in this?
If women are interested only in romance (I tell you this is not true, I am a woman and most of my friends here), then they wouldn't watch "Shogun". Right?
If they don't watch it, how to rate it? Would you rate something you don't watch?
And if anybody watch it, man or woman, they must have some problems in judging the quality of a movie/series if they rate it as they do... I don't think these people giving low rates are all women.
Find another reason for this. More plausible.
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Replying to Panino Manino Mar 25, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
Her husband being alive or dead was irrelevant. He also won't touch her and for what I know these types of night…
It's one of the best books I've ever read in my life. Please, read it. I read it 1st time when I was 16 and I've never forgotten it. I was disappointed by the mini series (1980) and I dreamed of a new adaptation for many years :) The truth is that it's very difficult to put on screen the book exactly how it is, in all small details. It's also about money, it requires a lot of money and time to prepare and a lot of people involved for the screen and behind it, etc. A titanic amount of resources and work. Hundreds of people to dress up and organize, transport, feed and shelter and pay :)
James Clavell wrote many wonderful books, after "Shogun" I became so eager to read all of them. Now I wait a new "Changi"/"King Rat" series, to be made at the same level as "Shogun". All his books are so well written, that you can visualize reading them, all that happens in them. Characters are so well outlined that you can see them with the eyes of your imagination. Great material for series, because except "King Rat" all are huge books of +1,000 pages, very complex and complicated. To make only a movie is impossible with so much material.
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Replying to Panino Manino Mar 25, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
Her husband being alive or dead was irrelevant. He also won't touch her and for what I know these types of night…
Hej :) Yes, it's from the book.

After Buntaro beats Mariko, he is called by Toranaga and gets a reprimand. What I wrote above is what Buntaro told Toranaga and a part is from his own thoughts.
Buntaro is sent away, so Mariko would work in peace together with John, without any other stressing days/evenings/nights in John's house and without that fear and tension. In the book, there are 8 days before John can see Mariko again after the night she got beaten. It was so bad that she could not walk and her face was swollen with blue marks. Buntaro is a f*cking monster. Toranaga said "miracle" ... lol
But everybody hated Buntaro, including his father, Hiromatsu, who loved Mariko as his own daughter and was sorry for her to be married to that raging bully. His favourite granddaughter was Fujiko, who hated Buntaro, too. But Buntaro was a great warrior, very admired for his fighting skills.
Fujiko is a great lady, in the book she learns from John how to use those pistols and she is proud that she could defend her "husband". And Mariko tells John that it's his duty to share the pillow with his concubine - so they do it :) But Mariko is in his heart, so that was not satisfactory to any of them.
*This is also from the book, I don't know if it ever happens in the series.

Fujiko is bad burnt on her back of the legs, thighs and back so she is in bed all the time looked by a doctor. So most of the time John and Mariko are "alone" - you can never be alone in those houses, servants always close and bodyguards outside for protection (after the assassin in Osaka, John has always samurai protecting his life), doors always open during the day. They all could hear everything it was said and done through those thin rice paper walls.

But Mariko explains John in the series what's the problem between her and Buntaro: "I don't want to give him what he wants. He gets nothing from me. Not even hate". The Catholic in her :)
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Replying to Panino Manino Mar 25, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
Her husband being alive or dead was irrelevant. He also won't touch her and for what I know these types of night…
You really misunderstood this.

If you saw ep 5, Mariko gets beaten by her husband. Did you understand why? Because she always refuses to "share the pillow" with him. And this is going like that for 15 years now. It's not him that he wouldn't touch her, it's HER that doesn't allow him to do it. He's been crazy about her since he got his eyes on her for the 1st time. But he is a bully and a sadist who enjoys to induce pain to others. Especially Mariko, because she frustrates him, getting him on the edge.
Right after her father and all her family were executed, Buntaro sent her far away for many, many years. He was afraid that Mariko's father's "mistake" would be thrown on him and his family too, especially on their son who was just born. She wanted to make herself seppuku, being depressed and ashamed with all that happened. But he didn't allow her to kill herself.
Instead, there far away, she met the Portuguese monks and she became a Christian, finding inner balance again through faith.
When she got permission to come back, Buntaro was extremely angry with her new religion, waiting from her to be submissive and obedient. He asked her ladies in waiting to convince her to give up on Christianity, but she adamantly refused. Buntaro then punished all her ladies cutting their hair and ears. To Mariko's beloved nurse he cut hair, ears and nose. She told him then that she will never invite him in her bed again, if he forces her then she will kill herself without asking for his permission anymore.

Mariko slept with Blackthorne because there are mutual feelings involved. But she would never admit it next day, she has to be very careful because she could lose her life and her honor. She is samurai.

And no, it was not common. If a married lady was caught in bed with another man than her husband, she was killed instantly. And the man she was with was killed too.
That common was for men to have a wife and maybe more concubines. Toranaga has many and a lot of children with them, different ages both kids and concubines. His first born and heir is around 30 (married to Lady Ochiba's sister and just became a father again, 3rd kid) and the last born only few weeks old. But only if the man has money enough to give them shelter, food, clothes and whatever they want, also for their children.
To spend a night with a courtesan it was common. But again, they were of different rangs, as higher the more expensive. Kiku is a first rang courtesan - she was educated in playing instruments, singing, dancing, chadō/sadō and of course the art of sharing the pillow. Every man was dreaming to spend a night with her, but only rich daimyo could afford her.

So again, you misunderstood everything.
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Replying to IndianChief69 Mar 25, 2024
Title Shogun
Mariko is really an animal in heat! Her husband died recently, her niece is the consort of the Anjin and what…
There are always some beings worthy of mercy that throw here your kind of comment.
I am sure you're having a lot of fun... Poor darling...
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Replying to NieLie Mar 25, 2024
Title Shogun
Majority of users in this site are women looking for romance dramas which is not the target audience of this show.
Yeah, you found the guilty: women (looking for romance).
You must have a sad life.
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Replying to mingliu Mar 25, 2024
Title Shogun
8.2? istg if this was a kdrama rating would be 9.1 or something
"Shōgun received critical acclaim worldwide.[46][47] On review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes, 99% of 88 critics gave the series a positive review. The site's critical consensus is, "Visually sumptuous and enriched with cultural verisimilitude, Shōgun is an epic adaptation that outdoes the original."[48]".
And here, on MDL, it's almost rated like "Wonderful world" (8.2) (only 1 example). Who'll remember "Wonderful world" 1 week after will be finished airing?
Ridiculous.
Never take in consideration the ratings here.
3 2
Replying to Knavery Mar 21, 2024
Title Shogun
Did they say they cut it? I was thinking the end of Episode 5 was the perfect set up for it where Mariko joins…
After that big earthquake John understood what "karma" means.
He was now protesting for 1 life and in the next second a huge earthquake which cannot be controlled by anyone took away hundreds of lives and destroyed a whole village.
So he started to understand the Japanese way and didn't blame himself anymore. He goes to that stone rising it up, that is a gesture in honor of his late old gardner. "Without a stone, a garden is only a place to grow up" :)
Toranaga always knew how Christians think about killing. He knew from the beginning, this is why he said something like "You have to learn Japanese and the villagers have to help. In 6 months you speak acceptable Japanese or the whole village will be killed". That was never Mariko's burden. She had to teach him about the language but most of all about the Japanese psilosophy/mentality and way of life (Bushido). And she was there also to "extract" from him all kind of information about everything he could provide, he is a very well educated man.
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Replying to AnHua Mar 20, 2024
Title Shogun
It is also his stubbourness that kicks in. Like the dinner scene , Mariko tried to emphasize he needs to tell…
He said "No" because they were in HIS house and Buntaro was behaving like the master of the place. Even if John didn't understand everything Buntaro said, he saw his hostillity and his rudeness. Buntaro named him "monkey", "he eats like a baby monkey", "clever monkey ... learns tricks fast", "soon we will start to eat with out feet" and so on. He COULD understand some of those words. Everybody around that table (except John) was shaking in fear for Buntaro because he is a ruthless and raging bully.
Plus, they both were jealous on eachother. Buntaro because his wife spent so much time with John and she is nice to him (in the book he was told that John and Mariko slept together but he had no proof) while she always is icecold to him, refusing every time to "share the pillow" with him. John is jealous on Buntaro because he loves Mariko and Buntaro suddenly rose from the dead and in his terrible rudeness he started to humiliate her in John's house.
It's not only stubbornness there. There are 2 alpha males and there it is John's house.
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Replying to Sppi Mar 20, 2024
Title Shogun
I watched one episode and well, why is everything blue and cold? It literally looks like its been filmed in scandinavia…
It's Canada :) In autumn/winter.
But Scandinavia is not better :) Denmark here, the land of rain, wind, fog and mist :)

I don't think that villagers (peasants) could have red clothes or other colors at year1600. Dark blue was comfortable (and easy to obtain) thinking how muddy and dirty it was then.
In the book Toranaga's samurai wear brown and Ishido's gray. Neutral colors for military uniforms even these days.
High ranked courtesans and noble ladies had silk kimonos in different colours, embroidered with different motifs. But silk was really expensive, this is the Portuguese reason to be in Japan, to control the trade and the transport of silk in Japan from China.
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Replying to DanaL Mar 20, 2024
Title Shogun
All sailors walk funny on land.Why do you ask "funny" questions?
Yes. I know what I'm saying. Do you?
Why don't you try google about it? Maybe you learn something...
And if you look for it, think that he was on sea for almost 2 years on that kind of ship, not a modern one.
I make it even easier for you: look for " Mal de débarquement syndrome".

Or maybe he is not used to the traditional footwear in Japan at 1600?
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Replying to Panino Manino Mar 19, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
That "brat"... wouldn't the best strategy there be to make a failed or subpar demonstration to lead the enemy…
It's ok :)
Yes, there is something more than usual client-courtesan between them, there are feelings involved. But both have own ambitions.
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Replying to Panino Manino Mar 19, 2024
Title Shogun
Question: why John walks "funny"?Anyone notices that he doesn't walk normally? He only walks like there's something…
All sailors walk funny on land.
Why do you ask "funny" questions?
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Replying to DanaL Mar 17, 2024
Title Shogun
Ratings here have their own sense (more like non-). A cheap, low quality series but starring a popular actor or…
I don't care at all if there are American or Nauru or Kiribati money in this production, I am only really happy that it could be done. And it's a great piece of work. To say "I don't like/watch it because is not Asian" it's ridiculous. Everything in this series is Japanese. Language, history, traditions, food, clothing, 99% of the actors, more than half of the crew, etc. To deny its Japanese character it's plain stupid and proves that prejudices and hatred are stronger than sense.
"Shogun" should be there, at the top, around 9.5.
The story is complicated, many characters and events. The complicated way of being, speaking/behaving in one way and thinking/feeling in another way is not easy to put it on the screen. A huge book of +1200 pages, too - in only 10 episodes. This is an accomplishment in itself.
Give Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

Greetings from Denmark. And have a good Monday :)
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Replying to Jim Jong Jun Mar 17, 2024
Title My Demon
How come after every few days your useless ass is here on the forum ranting about the show. Yes the show ain't…
That reply isn't justified in any circumstance. There is no excuse.
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Replying to DanaL Mar 16, 2024
Title Shogun Spoiler
I am a little puzzled by the actor playing Yabu, Asano Tadanobu. He is too nice for that character. In the book,…
Yes, and everybody helps him to speak correctly, including the old gardner :)
I think they gave up to put that in the series because it's time consuming. The eps are short and there are only 10 eps for a book of +1200 pages, so they had to keep the most important things and make sense in the same time.
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