Hm something is fishy.. that pretty chick was not carefully checked?? but she owes her life to FL... so why harm her? She said she had debt to pay... so did she come to actually protect FL? I suspect that the computer guy who found out is a mole or works with her or something
ah the stupidity of ordinary ppl is the main cause of all evil... So.. Kingfisher has 93 hits plus all free work as a hobby, and is nicely reducing the overload on jails and PREVENTING drugs and murders... and the public, the reporters, the police.... is after him.
But all those ah so concerned ppl are NOT after corrupt government, greedy corporations, drug rings, etc. Ppl who cause the root problems.
I assume you just watch ep 1. She just killed 1 people (one meeting), after she came back to work. Another one…
I profusely thank you for your patience! I watched this sooo late and night and barely had any sleep, there is a major emergency stressing me, and I am fasting, and it was such a hoooot day today, so I was slow LATER today it occurred to me that 1st case was around Xmass tree ... and the rest of the drama is clearly in warmer weather lol And I still missed that 2011 sign across the screen... what I watched did not have it I think Usually InspectorMegre is a sharp eye but not today :)
the organization/company structure handles that side of things; her assassin work is embedded within her corporate…
No, I perfectly understand that 1st job is her hobby gig and the 2nd job is official and paid through her Company.
But I didnt understand how Company works. How is FL sure that her target is a bad criminal? Who actually pays to "meet the client"? That job is not cheap so where is the money coming from? Only rich ppl and organizations who can afford it? Are there discounts for the poor lol
After rewatching I see FL looking over Hwang's file, so seems like she is informed what the person did.... but we dont know for sure. And we didnt see who asked for that job and who is paying her to do it
Bc if she is just TOLD to kill someone without doing a check on her own, she would be just like any assassin, there would be so much room for abuse, her boss can tell her to "meet client X" and lie that X is a bad person... But again, her boss could forge X's file that he shows her :) THere is no way out here except to blindly trust her Company... and her boss is killing ppl on his own that nobody else knows about..
the organization/company structure handles that side of things; her assassin work is embedded within her corporate…
The kill at the start of ep 1 was FL's private gig, she did it for free as a favor to that girl. The kill #2 in ep 1 was through the Company, so .. online sources say that Company does take money and somehow decides which job to take on bc the "client to meet" has to be a bad criminal. SO who are the people who have enough money to pay to "meet the client"? we dont know yet
you dont count HJ's crush as romance? at least attempted? and JJ's concern for him... ?
yeah you are right HJ THINKS it is romance but he is feeling ... some kind of crush based on obsession I do believe he liked JJ at the start when she sneaked into their house back then, she was cute to him, she smiled to his face and treated him nicely, she was open and loving and enthusiastic about MJ :) so HJ got to see what a nice lady looks and feels up close We dont see HJ hanging out with ladies so that was probably one of the rare moments he had a close and personal encounter with a young woman, and a nice one
because kdrama viewers only understand if such plots shown as serious thriller...they are not much familiar with…
Koreans themselves understand it :) They are known for the tragicomic element... They made Parasite and many other satires... I think we are more talking about outsider kdrama audience and perhaps younger Koreans, who are wesernized
IS CRYSTAL IN KDRAMA OUR HAPPY DAYS A NARCISSIST? for example when she sneaks into G's room to snoop and goes trough his secret box, he catches her, she yells at him for startling her and asks him what wrong was she doing, and even asks him to apologize. My mother did this all the time so I have to know.
AH HERE IS MY RESEARCH. FASCINATING!!!! Sorry it is long but it is incredibly useful. CRYSTAL IN KDRAMA OUR HAPPY DAYS, FL's MOM IN KDRAMA FAMILY REGISTER, AND MY MOTHER AND NARCISSISTS YuNa in kdrama Pearl in Red is a psychopath. Many criminals are psychopaths. For example, Gi Tae in Made in Korea, 2ML in Hello Monster, villains in Judge Returns, Flower of Evil, etc etc https://www.gqindia.com/content/7-k-dramas-actors-who-aced-psychopath-roles-park-bo-gum-ok-taec-yeon-kim-ji-hoon-and-others I did not watch kdrama Psychopath's Diary but that should be a very good reference...
Psychopaths can act in a specific way called sociopathy. Sociopaths manipulate and gaslight other people, with the goal to convince them to do something nasty to the sociopath;s victim. SO THE SOCIOPATH IS NOT THE CULPRIT. THE OTHER PPL DID IT. For example, all malicious gossipers and slander promoters are sociopaths, Many bullies in kdramas are sociopaths, for example Do Hee in Family Register when she bullied Ji Na. Many criminals use sociopathy, like Judge Cha in Lawless Layer, AsseblyMan in Again My Life, etc. To see a PERFECT sociopath gaslighting in action, watch the 2ML in Heo's Diner. He is PERFECT. References at the end.
Technically, only psychopaths gaslight, bc they know what the reality is and then intentionally, with careful planning, lie to you, cold and calm, to get something from you. They always have a tangible goal - your money, s.x, favors, etc. They know they will not divorce their wife and are just trying to get into your pants or your checkbook. The classic psychopathic gaslighting is in movie "Gas Light" The gaslighting psychopath is a scheming cunning con artists, forces their reality on you to take your resources. Goal oriented, premeditated, carefully planned, intended to drive you insane and totally rely on what the psychopath says the reality is. He is external regulator for you, he dictates what the reality is and you cannot rely on yourself. .
Narcissists live in their own fantasy world where they are "good people" and they never question that, so they do not know what reality is, so when they lie, they believe they are telling the truth, and they gaslight instinctively and are defensive when you question them. They *believe* that they are gonna get rich or divorce their wife to marry you. Narcissist does not have an external goal to take something from you, but needs you to join in his fantasy reality so that the narcissist can experience himself in that fantasy reality, In other words, YOU make his fantasy reality seem "real" and he needs that. Narcissist wants you to help him experience his fantasy reality, and is not interested in taking tangible stuff from you. (but it will happen anyways lol)
SUMMARY: GASLIGHTING IS PATHOLOGICAL MANEUVERS TO REWRITE REALITY, DENY FACTS AND LOGIC, AND GAIN CONTROL OVER THE VICTIM, but narcissist and psychopaths gaslighting has a different "feel". Gaslighting is a form of de-association, gaslighting forces you to lose your own reality and adopt gaslighter's reality, you lose yourself. Perpetrator trains you with words, actions, body language, silence, etc.
EXAMPLES OF WHAT GASLIGHTERS USUALLY SAY ============================================ Narcissists use highly predictable, repetitive phrases designed to deflect blame, invalidate your feelings, and keep you off-balance. Psychopaths use this too 1. Deflecting Blame and Avoiding Accountability: When caught doing something wrong, a narcissist will immediately use words to shift the focus from their actions to your reaction."You’re rewriting history." (Used to make you doubt your own memory of an event.)"I never said that, you're making things up." (Direct denial of reality, even when proof exists.)"You are always bringing up the past." (Used to escape accountability for recurring patterns of bad behavior.)"Look what you made me do." (An explicit attempt to blame you for their abusive or angry outbursts.) 2. Invalidating Your Emotions: Narcissists view your negative emotions as an attack on their perfect self-image, so they attempt to label your feelings as defective."You’re just too sensitive." (Minimizes your valid hurt feelings.)"You can't take a joke." (Deploys cruelty disguised as humor, then blames you for being offended.)"You are overreacting." (Normalizes their bad behavior by making your response seem extreme.)"You have serious mental issues." (Weaponizes mental health to completely dismantle your credibility.)
3, Playing the Victim (The DARVO Technique)To regain control, narcissists will flip the narrative so that they appear to be the injured party."After everything I’ve done for you, this is how you treat me?" (Guilt-tripping to make you feel ungrateful.)"You’re the one who is actually abusive/toxic." (Projection; accusing you of the exact traits they are displaying.)"No one will ever love you the way I do." (A subtle threat disguised as affection to make you feel unlovable and isolated.)"Everyone else agrees with me about you." (An isolation tactic using invisible allies to make you feel outnumbered.)
CORE TACTICS OF GASLIGHTING: ============================ 1. The DARVO Strategy: This stands for Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. When confronted with bad behavior, they deny it happened, attack your credibility, and twist the narrative to make themselves look like the victim. 2. Revisionist History: They will look you in the eye and rewrite past events. Common phrases include "I never said that," "You have a terrible memory," or "That is not how it happened." 3. Blame-Shifting and Projection: Narcissists project their own flaws onto you. If they are cheating, they will accuse you of being unfaithful. If they make a mistake, they find a way to claim it was your fault. 4, Emotional Trivializing: They minimize your emotional responses to make you feel unstable. They will tell you, "You’re being too sensitive," "You're overreacting," or "Can't you take a joke?" 5, Pretending to Have Allies: They claim other people agree with them to isolate you. They might say, "Everyone else thinks you're acting crazy," or "Your own family told me they are worried about your mental state." 6, Gaslighting by Silence: They use withholding or the silent treatment. By refusing to engage or validate a basic conversation, they leave you desperately trying to solve an unspoken problem.
The Three Stages of the Gaslighting Cycle: Narcissistic gaslighting is rarely obvious at the beginning of a relationship. It follows a highly predictable, cyclical timeline:[1. Idealization / Love Bombing] ➔ [2. Devaluation / Chipping Away] ➔ [3. Total Dependence]
REFERENCES: including strategies to defend and protect against these ============= Sociopaths are well described in Empathy Trap Article https://www.recoveryplusjournal.com/2017/10/the-empathy-trap/. Gaslighting by narcissists and psychopaths are well described in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOkHsl9Mioo esp after min 5, and everything else from professor Dr. Sam Viknin, is a good start, and google search for "what is gaslighting in psychiatry" and then "narcissism and gaslighting" There you will find some good ideas how to defend and protect.
I'm enjoying this drama. We're getting spectacular acting from Park Se Young and Han Go Eun. And I love the complex…
the OST song Broken lyrics are about being stuck in a swamp of hatred... So .. maybe this never-extinguished hate will never end, which will ruin the drama Realisticaly, it SHOULD take them about 50 episodes at least to overcome it
yeah good question, WHAT EXACTLY DOES JJ FEEL FOR HJ???? care out of guilt / remorse / pity, or something romantic? To me it feels pure guilt and remorse, feeling responsible for destroying him, unwilligness to see his bad side, and trying to fix what she thinks she ruined - but ... HJ was selfish and weak and immature from day 1... JJ did not destroy anything. The pestering wound was there and she just pushed the pus to the surface. If JJ cannot see it... then... she is a moron
But I thought about this - JJ as Chloe and then JJ again never showed any concern or care for MJ.
The police are so incompetent. If i were jin ju i would've reminded the police that the detective that was attacked…
so you are saying JJ is dumb for not mentioning that Police is bribed, biased and yes incompetent, and all the records from before could be gone, hidden, etc Do NOT count on police :)
I didn't think their relationship will be that serious before he disappear. To have a child. Plot Synopsis by…
is this a typo, you meant 2025 not 2017?
Bc.. Hm she rejected him when he first confessed! Days later, she explained she likes him but has no time to date. Then they hung out So maybe she will push him again in 2025 For sure, the preview shows his mother ordering him to ditch her
Wow one of my fav actors is the daughter killer at the start. HE IS SOOO GOOD! and the script is sooo good, makes him so cunning.. The FL family scenes are so great, definite positive advertisement for getting married and having kids. ML and the daughter are so cute. The daughter has the right instinct, she prefers her dad. After that... i fell asleep lol so I had to go back and rewatch from the middle.
WHY WAS FL'S TEAM TAKEN ABACK WHEN SHE SAID SHE IS GLAD TO MEET YE SEOL, NEW MANAGER? Ep 1 min 36
The start of ep 1 happened a while ago.
FL's team leader is behind the explosion of that car that FL's husband was chasing, and it seems he kept it a secret from the company. And seems like that and Mr Hwang are related?
FL's husband suspects that Kingfisher is her. And someone who knows for sure is threatening her.
I suspect the new manager at work. But anyone can be the traitor - the flower lady downstairs, .... anyone from her company..
preview shows her without any mask, pointing a hand gun to someone. Tsk how can a professsional be so sloopy?
1
I suspect that the computer guy who found out is a mole or works with her or something
But all those ah so concerned ppl are NOT after corrupt government, greedy corporations, drug rings, etc. Ppl who cause the root problems.
Yeah... the gray masses
LATER today it occurred to me that 1st case was around Xmass tree ... and the rest of the drama is clearly in warmer weather lol
And I still missed that 2011 sign across the screen... what I watched did not have it I think
Usually InspectorMegre is a sharp eye but not today :)
But I didnt understand how Company works. How is FL sure that her target is a bad criminal? Who actually pays to "meet the client"? That job is not cheap so where is the money coming from? Only rich ppl and organizations who can afford it? Are there discounts for the poor lol
After rewatching I see FL looking over Hwang's file, so seems like she is informed what the person did.... but we dont know for sure. And we didnt see who asked for that job and who is paying her to do it
Bc if she is just TOLD to kill someone without doing a check on her own, she would be just like any assassin, there would be so much room for abuse, her boss can tell her to "meet client X" and lie that X is a bad person... But again, her boss could forge X's file that he shows her :) THere is no way out here except to blindly trust her Company...
and her boss is killing ppl on his own that nobody else knows about..
online sources say that Company does take money and somehow decides which job to take on bc the "client to meet" has to be a bad criminal. SO who are the people who have enough money to pay to "meet the client"? we dont know yet
I do believe he liked JJ at the start when she sneaked into their house back then, she was cute to him, she smiled to his face and treated him nicely, she was open and loving and enthusiastic about MJ :) so HJ got to see what a nice lady looks and feels up close
We dont see HJ hanging out with ladies so that was probably one of the rare moments he had a close and personal encounter with a young woman, and a nice one
and perhaps younger Koreans, who are wesernized
AH HERE IS MY RESEARCH. FASCINATING!!!! Sorry it is long but it is incredibly useful.
CRYSTAL IN KDRAMA OUR HAPPY DAYS, FL's MOM IN KDRAMA FAMILY REGISTER, AND MY MOTHER AND NARCISSISTS
YuNa in kdrama Pearl in Red is a psychopath. Many criminals are psychopaths. For example, Gi Tae in Made in Korea, 2ML in Hello Monster, villains in Judge Returns, Flower of Evil, etc etc https://www.gqindia.com/content/7-k-dramas-actors-who-aced-psychopath-roles-park-bo-gum-ok-taec-yeon-kim-ji-hoon-and-others I did not watch kdrama Psychopath's Diary but that should be a very good reference...
Psychopaths can act in a specific way called sociopathy. Sociopaths manipulate and gaslight other people, with the goal to convince them to do something nasty to the sociopath;s victim. SO THE SOCIOPATH IS NOT THE CULPRIT. THE OTHER PPL DID IT. For example, all malicious gossipers and slander promoters are sociopaths, Many bullies in kdramas are sociopaths, for example Do Hee in Family Register when she bullied Ji Na. Many criminals use sociopathy, like Judge Cha in Lawless Layer, AsseblyMan in Again My Life, etc. To see a PERFECT sociopath gaslighting in action, watch the 2ML in Heo's Diner. He is PERFECT.
References at the end.
Technically, only psychopaths gaslight, bc they know what the reality is and then intentionally, with careful planning, lie to you, cold and calm, to get something from you. They always have a tangible goal - your money, s.x, favors, etc. They know they will not divorce their wife and are just trying to get into your pants or your checkbook. The classic psychopathic gaslighting is in movie "Gas Light" The gaslighting psychopath is a scheming cunning con artists, forces their reality on you to take your resources. Goal oriented, premeditated, carefully planned, intended to drive you insane and totally rely on what the psychopath says the reality is. He is external regulator for you, he dictates what the reality is and you cannot rely on yourself. .
Narcissists live in their own fantasy world where they are "good people" and they never question that, so they do not know what reality is, so when they lie, they believe they are telling the truth, and they gaslight instinctively and are defensive when you question them. They *believe* that they are gonna get rich or divorce their wife to marry you. Narcissist does not have an external goal to take something from you, but needs you to join in his fantasy reality so that the narcissist can experience himself in that fantasy reality, In other words, YOU make his fantasy reality seem "real" and he needs that. Narcissist wants you to help him experience his fantasy reality, and is not interested in taking tangible stuff from you. (but it will happen anyways lol)
SUMMARY: GASLIGHTING IS PATHOLOGICAL MANEUVERS TO REWRITE REALITY, DENY FACTS AND LOGIC, AND GAIN CONTROL OVER THE VICTIM, but narcissist and psychopaths gaslighting has a different "feel". Gaslighting is a form of de-association, gaslighting forces you to lose your own reality and adopt gaslighter's reality, you lose yourself. Perpetrator trains you with words, actions, body language, silence, etc.
EXAMPLES OF WHAT GASLIGHTERS USUALLY SAY
============================================
Narcissists use highly predictable, repetitive phrases designed to deflect blame, invalidate your feelings, and keep you off-balance. Psychopaths use this too
1. Deflecting Blame and Avoiding Accountability: When caught doing something wrong, a narcissist will immediately use words to shift the focus from their actions to your reaction."You’re rewriting history." (Used to make you doubt your own memory of an event.)"I never said that, you're making things up." (Direct denial of reality, even when proof exists.)"You are always bringing up the past." (Used to escape accountability for recurring patterns of bad behavior.)"Look what you made me do." (An explicit attempt to blame you for their abusive or angry outbursts.)
2. Invalidating Your Emotions: Narcissists view your negative emotions as an attack on their perfect self-image, so they attempt to label your feelings as defective."You’re just too sensitive." (Minimizes your valid hurt feelings.)"You can't take a joke." (Deploys cruelty disguised as humor, then blames you for being offended.)"You are overreacting." (Normalizes their bad behavior by making your response seem extreme.)"You have serious mental issues." (Weaponizes mental health to completely dismantle your credibility.)
3, Playing the Victim (The DARVO Technique)To regain control, narcissists will flip the narrative so that they appear to be the injured party."After everything I’ve done for you, this is how you treat me?" (Guilt-tripping to make you feel ungrateful.)"You’re the one who is actually abusive/toxic." (Projection; accusing you of the exact traits they are displaying.)"No one will ever love you the way I do." (A subtle threat disguised as affection to make you feel unlovable and isolated.)"Everyone else agrees with me about you." (An isolation tactic using invisible allies to make you feel outnumbered.)
CORE TACTICS OF GASLIGHTING:
============================
1. The DARVO Strategy: This stands for Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender. When confronted with bad behavior, they deny it happened, attack your credibility, and twist the narrative to make themselves look like the victim.
2. Revisionist History: They will look you in the eye and rewrite past events. Common phrases include "I never said that," "You have a terrible memory," or "That is not how it happened."
3. Blame-Shifting and Projection: Narcissists project their own flaws onto you. If they are cheating, they will accuse you of being unfaithful. If they make a mistake, they find a way to claim it was your fault.
4, Emotional Trivializing: They minimize your emotional responses to make you feel unstable. They will tell you, "You’re being too sensitive," "You're overreacting," or "Can't you take a joke?"
5, Pretending to Have Allies: They claim other people agree with them to isolate you. They might say, "Everyone else thinks you're acting crazy," or "Your own family told me they are worried about your mental state."
6, Gaslighting by Silence: They use withholding or the silent treatment. By refusing to engage or validate a basic conversation, they leave you desperately trying to solve an unspoken problem.
The Three Stages of the Gaslighting Cycle: Narcissistic gaslighting is rarely obvious at the beginning of a relationship. It follows a highly predictable, cyclical timeline:[1. Idealization / Love Bombing] ➔ [2. Devaluation / Chipping Away] ➔ [3. Total Dependence]
REFERENCES: including strategies to defend and protect against these
=============
Sociopaths are well described in Empathy Trap Article https://www.recoveryplusjournal.com/2017/10/the-empathy-trap/. Gaslighting by narcissists and psychopaths are well described in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOkHsl9Mioo esp after min 5, and everything else from professor Dr. Sam Viknin, is a good start, and google search for "what is gaslighting in psychiatry" and then "narcissism and gaslighting" There you will find some good ideas how to defend and protect.
Realisticaly, it SHOULD take them about 50 episodes at least to overcome it
i was talking about copies at the police, not with JJ. All police records could have disappeared bc of Yun
do you think police will check online... ? Most will not... and esp if they are bribed / biased
FYI acting dumb/incompetent a LOT is a cheesy lazy way to extend the plot. ie. lousy script i.e. lousy writer
To me it feels pure guilt and remorse, feeling responsible for destroying him, unwilligness to see his bad side, and trying to fix what she thinks she ruined - but ... HJ was selfish and weak and immature from day 1... JJ did not destroy anything. The pestering wound was there and she just pushed the pus to the surface. If JJ cannot see it... then... she is a moron
But I thought about this - JJ as Chloe and then JJ again never showed any concern or care for MJ.
Police is bribed, biased and yes incompetent, and all the records from before could be gone, hidden, etc Do NOT count on police :)
Bc.. Hm she rejected him when he first confessed! Days later, she explained she likes him but has no time to date. Then they hung out So maybe she will push him again in 2025
For sure, the preview shows his mother ordering him to ditch her
WHY WAS FL'S TEAM TAKEN ABACK WHEN SHE SAID SHE IS GLAD TO MEET YE SEOL, NEW MANAGER? Ep 1 min 36
The start of ep 1 happened a while ago.
FL's team leader is behind the explosion of that car that FL's husband was chasing, and it seems he kept it a secret from the company. And seems like that and Mr Hwang are related?
FL's husband suspects that Kingfisher is her. And someone who knows for sure is threatening her.
I suspect the new manager at work. But anyone can be the traitor - the flower lady downstairs, .... anyone from her company..
preview shows her without any mask, pointing a hand gun to someone. Tsk how can a professsional be so sloopy?