Kannadin

My God yes! I started to learn Chinese 5 years ago... I already thought Koreans were complicated... And then I discovered China...

For the life of me I still can't remember all the names. I'm Ok up to the grandparents. After that, I've just given up. I read that Chinese people also get confused themselves because some nouns change depending on the region you live in, so that's "reassuring" in a way? 🙃

Ah yeah. When watching with subs, I tend to use English subs by default but yeah, this is one instance when I'd recommend you checked subs in your mother tongue is the nuance exist in it. I can't guarantee you 100% that it's gonna be here but it's worth a try.

Couple of years ago I watched Kingdom with French subs... Well... It was a hit or miss in terms of tones so...

But again worth a try.

Short answer because time is scarce:
마십시오 is more "old fashioned" so to speak but does not equal being more polite than its modern version even if it's less used.

Tones are flexible in Korean and adaptable depending on the context. You can use familiar speech with a colleague who is a close friend outside of working works yet still talk in very formal tones inside working hours. That's completely normal even if for us western users it would feel pretty weird.
Hui Ju addressing Yi An is exactly the same. To simplify explanations we tend to refer to ㅂ니다/요/반말 but that's basically oversimplifying.

For instance the verb "to meet" can be said two ways by using 만나다 (mannada) or 뵙다 (bwepta or whatever) which is more formal. Yet both can be used in a very formal way but some forms are used with one and not necessarily the other. You can hear 만납시다 (Manapshida - Let's meet') yet this form is not used in formal context with 뵙다.

Most of the time, you'll hear 뵙겠습니다 ( bwepkeseumnida - I'll see you tomorrow). For the imperative of "to meet", one form is just never used so the highest degree will always be a "lesser degree." By the same token, some structures are more polite than others so even if you use a less "polite word" if the structure used is very polite, the register can still be considered 2 degrees above. That would require more examples to explain what I mean here, but I already spent to much time answering this comment. So I'm gonna try to wrap up.
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[EDIT: Quick example 묻다/여쭙다 - To ask]

묻다 (mutta - neutral)
여쭙다 (yeojjupta - formal)

1.질문 하나 물어도 돼요?
2.질문 하나 물어봐도 될까요?
3.질문 하나 여쭤도 돼요?
4.질문 하나 여쭤봐도 될까요?


Basically all can be translated as "Can I ask you a question" and other variations in English "Would it be ok to ask you a question etc.".
All finish with 요.. Yet the structures are different and the verb used is different. In the example I gave above, if we had to rank this form by "politeness level" from the "least polite" to the "most polite" we would get this:

1.질문 하나 물어도 돼요?
3.질문 하나 여쭤도 돼요?
2.질문 하나 물어봐도 될까요?
4.질문 하나 여쭤봐도 될까요?

And I didn't even bother with the ㅂ니다/습니다 nuance on top, but you get the drift. The structure, the word used and the final suffix have to be taken into account together to really pinpoint which register we're talking in. You can't only rely on a single parameter to judge if the speech is one or two degrees higher than banmal... It's way more complicated than that.

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Anyway even in latest scenes, in spite of her using the 요 her register is still very formal.

Still as you mentioned they're transitioning in speech and she switches from one scene to the other. I mean that would require a scene by scene analysis that is useless. The point is, that transition in closeness is something a Korean speaker would naturally feel through the language something that is sadly more difficult to convey through translations.

Finally I was speaking about the overall basic language used since the beginning of the series not about their epilogues, past or where we are at episode 6. That wasn't the point of my comment.

The point is Netflix et Disney + translations suck and I'm glad I don't have to rely on them and long live Viki and fan translators who put time and care in conveying at best they can cultural nuances to non-native speakers.

The languages nuances can usually be overlooked in most K dramas but this is one instance where English just doesn't convey all the layers and hierarchy within the language. For instance Hui Ju talks in in the most formal way with Yi An. Yet he speaks in a very informal way. It's not 1 degree it's two degrees lower, even often using imperatives. If you use Spanish or French subs, some of the nuances can still be conveyed... (if they translated from Korean and not English... I haven't checked so I wouldn't know) although Korean has more "layers" compared to both French and Spanish.

Basically that would be the equivalent of Hui Ju adressing the King using "usted" or "Vous" in Spanish or French, while he would use "tu" to talk to her. Except that wouldn't be even be the proper comparison as Yi An is going one degree lower than that.

They're not on equal footing. In spite of all her defiance Hui Ju is at present still a subject and still has to treat him with a respect in tone that makes their whole relationship unbalanced. It's not Yi An's fault, that's just protocol and status... BUT when Hui Ju interacts with the prime minister, they're using banmal together i.e being extremely friendly and close.

So the main romantic interest is forced to maintain distance through all the language stuff but the prime minister who is "just" a friend is actually closer to her at least linguistically.

We can also extend this to Yi An's closest person, his poor right hand man running everywhere. Like Hui Ju's he's addressing the King with the most formal language available and yet they're supposed to be close. Hui Ju's secretary is obviously more a friend than a secretary but both still observe a certain form of protocol. Hui Ju's adresses her the same way Yi An talks to her ( just slightly more more polite) and her secretary adresses her with one degree of politeness above, not 2.

And I could go on. Well if you need subs there's no choice but to accept to lose all that nuances... If it was on Viki, the subs would probably be way better but Netflix and Disney + cater to a wider audience, not necessarily used to K dramas in the first place, so the policy has always been to simplify to the max with arguable results if you are a long time drama fan and able to easily hear all these differences in tone.

I do check the couple of words I don't understand when I have the time but sometimes time just doesn't allow for it. I've got no time to rewatch things with subs. When you're learning 4 languages at the same time, working full time on top of having a couple of other side projects... You tend to turn your breaks into "studying time" when you can. This being said, if I stay satisfied with the show up to the end. I'll probably rewatch it properly this time i.e checking every word I don't understand.

Ok fair enough 🤓

Well i get your comment but honestly I don't see how the monarchy is threatened if Yi An takes power and not her son. He's still a royal. There is nothing here that is threatening the monarchy... But it sure is threatening HER power.
Also yes, this is fictional Korea indeed... But COME ON'. There are other countries with royalty with marriage with commoners. Unless they're all living on another planet.

As for having power through her son... Well obviously she doesn't since she's going about it the wrong way. This is a child not a king. At this point, given how smart she's supposed to be, I just don't see how she doesn't understand that the reason her son listens to Yi An more than her, is simply because in spite of all the decorum he has to observe, Yi An treats his nephew... as the child he is.

If you're smart, handle things with intelligence. There's absolutely nothing to gain by antagonizing your brother in law.

I hate her character so I don't want her to hook up with the Prime Minister. He's a nice guy I like him. However, if there's a happy ending for her, I wish her to finally connect with her son and have a normal relationship with him. This poor child has no friend and no siblings, he's the most pitiful character of this whole show imho.

I do get your point of view but personally I need to enjoy myself when watching a show and I can't enjoy any of her scenes. For instance take a staple of old K dramas: The makjang genre. The idea is to make the "evil characters" so nasty that you just want to break your screen everytime they appear. This is why I personally gave up on the genre way before they became unpopular ( I think they only air this type of shows on weekly soaps now)...

As for her coming from a Queen maker family, I must have missed that part. I'm watching in full Korean but can't check every word which escape my understanding so this is probably one information that slept from my grasp... As for the secret... Err is it another secret other than the one related to the mysterious death of the King?

Lol.. Came here to see opinions and saw your comments. Heartisverystrange is one of the reason why MDL's ratings have gone down the gutter.

If it's not my genre, I just skip alltogether. If its not your cup of tea, why give a low rate to a show you KNOW you won't like? You're giving a rating to the genre not the show itself.

What kind of distorted logic is this?

Personally I don't even rate shows I've dropped. You never know. There's some shows which second half is better than the first one. I'm of the opinion that you can't rate anything unless you've seen half of it.

I also only use MDL to keep tracks of what I've watched and upcoming dramas. Everything else has gone to shit. When I first started to use this site, the front page had informative articles, now it's all gossip or useless articles most of the time.

Overblown ratings... a specialty for C dramas and BLs have become the norm. You never know if the show is genuinely good or if it's been overblown by the fan mob... and I've been BURNT lots of time.

On the other side, J dramas get ratings around 8 or lower most of time except for a few exceptions. It's not because they're underrated... It's because there's no fan mob to boost ratings for Japan.

And I tend to be generous when rating myself to follow the overall norm here. Good shows are rated 8 or higher. Average around 7. Sucks around 5 or lower...

Which is not really logical... Since 10 is the maximum, An average show should be rated around 5 or 6... not 7.. But that's just the practice here so anyway, that's how I do it.

Still disappointed with the writing of the Queen. I want to understand her side of the story. Why the hell does she suck the air out of people? BUT, the show is not making any effort to make her compelling in any way.

For instance, it's easy to root for Hui Ju even though she's pretty obnoxious most of the time. The show has shown were she's coming from and therefore we know that her "I'm the prettiest, richest, smartest etc." attitude is just a "battle armor" she's wearing. It also contrasts well with Yi An. He is "naturally haughty " with people around him because his status makes it that way. He basically only humbles himself in front of the Queen. Hui Ju on the contrary, is not "naturally haughty", it's a behavior she learned because if she doesn't, people would just walk all over her. So yeah both are obnoxious, yet both likable in their own way.

But the Queen? So far none of that. Basically she's being portrayed as being power hungry and manipulative but nothing is shown to make us have empathy for her.

The problem here is maybe the writers intend to reveal later why the Queen is the way she is... but if you wait too much, your audience will have grown so tired of her so they'll no longer care no matter how good the reason behind her nasty temper.

Happened to me with another K drama aired a couple of months ago... I think it was a sageuk? Anyway completely forgettable, too lazy to look for the title.

One of the character, I think a monster don't remember , was this huge villain during the whole show. Utterly detestable. They revealed his past 2 or 3 episodes before the end... And honestly? He had VERY good reasons to be the way he was, even hurting some innocent people in the process...

Is it right to punish innocents for what their ancestors did? Nope. BUT given his past and what happened to him, you could get where he was coming from.
Problem was, he had done SO MANY terrible things without the show giving us any reason that ultimately the " well I don't give a shit, just go die already" factor had already kicked in.

And I'm already getting very tired every time the Queen appears on my screen. You know it's gonna be unpleasant, whatever she says or does. When you have a character like that either you put in something that makes viewers have some empathy for them OR you make them fun to watch. She is sadly none of those.
We're halfway now, and it's entering the "too little too late" area for me. Either they give us some reasons for the Queen to be the way she is next week... maybe the King has wronged her at some point? She suffered from the Royal Family and therefore wants to get power? ANYTHING.

Or I'm giving up caring about her. I'm not one to skip scenes but my God do I hate every single scene she's in.

(And before the fan mob jumps on my back, please take a breath and touch grass, I'm talking about a character here not your actress. I don't care about your fanaticism, keep it to yourself.)

Lol... Very important lesson on MDL. Never criticize negatively a currently airing drama with actors with an extremely large fanbase... You're gonna be virtually bullied by the fan mob who always takes such criticism as personal attacks. Couple of days ago I made a comment about one CHARACTER and a received a stupid comment from a fan of the actress playing the role as if I had made a comment about the actress and not the character she's portraying... Fortunatly I'm used to this type of nutcases now so It no longer fazes me. Too many crazies on MDL. Just learn to block people. Makes life easier. I will never understand this weird mindset of people thinking critics are on a personal vendetta against actors they will never meet.

On another note... You don't like the show and that's totally fine... But honestly, I would argue the tendency on MDL is to overate C dramas and Thai BLs. J dramas are criminally underrated in comparison and K dramas sit right in the middle. Given the current viewership of this show and the overabundant mostly positive reviews + Byun Woo Seok and IU's star power... It's actually surprising the rating is actually not higher in my opinion... Regardless of the quality of the drama in question (which I'm enjoying at present, though I agree it's not reinventing the wheel... though my current rating would be indeed between 8.5 and 9 so for me it's pretty accurate)

After all rating is something personal... I don't know how many overly long boring C dramas I watched that I finished only because of its overblown ratings hoping that at some point I would understand where the hype was coming from. Hopefully I'll get rid of this sickness soon.

Anyway, don't put too much trust into ratings unless the main actors are in their late 40s or older. Anybody still in their late early 40s and younger, usually has a lot of fans and anti-fans who have nothing to do better with their lives than waging a secret rating war behind curtains. Right now, the 2 leads' fans probably have lots of fake accounts used to boost ratings and another group, the one with the anti-fans, does exactly the same in downrating it.

Completely unreliable.

Just wanted to tell you that I disagree with your comment, but you should have the right to criticize said show without feeling the obligation to "prove" you're not an anti-fans. We're not all crazy here. Some of us, the silent majority, have manners and decorum and believe in freedom of speech.

Yeah... It was actually a very good idea... It's too bad they completely gave it up pretty early in the game...

Yeah but that's not the point of my comment. The point is we have 7 episodes left and it doesn't feel like they're gonna manage making this romantic progression feel natural and not rushed given how there's not that much episodes left.

I'm not saying I don't like how things are portrayed. If they manage to make it work well within the alloted episodes, I'll be very happy to have been worried over nothing.

I'm talking about their respective feelings. The whole engagement thing officially is just a contract of mutual interests which has absolutely nothing to do with being in love or not.

WELL! I must say today's ending was VERY satisfying. Too bad the Queen is too well-versed in hiding her emotions publicly 🤓 I would have loved to see her being pissed in front of all her guests but we can't have everything... I guess.

I'm just a bit worried about the whole romance progression. We're moving at a good pace but we're already reaching the middle of the series tomorrow and my God does it feel like it's not really moving? Like you can see they're both flustered... and obviously there's the epilogues... but at the same time, it feels more like a romantic progression for a 16 episodes series than a 12 episodes one. Better that than too much fillers though... But it does surprise me that I've seen countless 12 episodes romance you start to feel bored with halfway... when this one... has not really moved forward? Lots of plot points, very little time to execute...

It doesn't feel rushed for now but I'm still pretty worried about the second half. Hopefully they manage to balance everything and keep that steady pace up to the last episode. Crossing my fingers 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽

Sounds like the remake of the Japanese Movie "Character":

https://kisskh.at/682935-character

Very interesting to see that on MDL, information are pretty scarce concerning Japanese actors... I just came across a video dating several months back explaining that a couple of months ago a scandalous picture came out and that it became a well-known fact that he's cheated on his wife over 30 times but that she won't divorce ( that was background noise so the point of the video was explaining WHY his wife didn't divorce him but I didn't catch that part).

You won't find videos about this on Japanese youtube though... only Japanese articles. I guess since affairs don't really have any impact on Japanese actors' careers ( especially his' for that matter), there's no need to mention it here... But I do feel it's unfair. All actors on MDL have their scandals plastered on their Bio, this one has mysteriously escaped everyone's radar.

If you don't speak either Japanese or Korean, you're very unlikely to know about this... And at the moment I'm typing these lines... This scandal has blown up 7 months ago.

Not gonna boycott or anything... But I do find the "clean Bio" pretty funny in regards of how screwed up his personal life turns out to be.

Yeah well... I've noticed that MDL seems to specialize in overrating or downrating i.e shows ratings being overblown (especially for Chinese dramas or anything BL related) whereas some shows, seem to get the short end of the stick even when they're genuinely good... often when the star power is weak. Honestly, I don't bother checking ratings any more. You can' t rely on them.

Actually nope.. Your experience is probably worse but watching it live didn't make the experience better. It was BORING as fudge past episode 4

I was misled by the trailer which put a huge emphasis on the game as if it was actually important... It was the starting point for sure, but the trailer hinted at it being way more important than it actually was... Well it did its job because I was intrigued enough to start it... but It currently makes me feel pretty betrayed as well.