MadelineMaureen

And his character could have been straight and done all that.

When you make the only queer character the bad guy it is sending a message, whether knowingly or not, that queer people are secretive deceivers, willing to harm/kill others to keep their secret.
And in a country that is still dealing with a LOT of homophobia at that...yeah that's an extremely bad take on a character in 2023.

I've watched sooooo many films and shows of different generations and industries and this plot device belongs in 1940s Hollywood. There is a reason the Disney villains of a certain age are all queer coded. It marks them as "other" and "dangerous".

It might not have been the productions' intent, but that doesn't make it any less problematic and disappointing.

Also the fact that the lead actress was spearheading the campaign. Jumping in before and during production. Pulling strings and calling in favors. Lu Si WORKED on this show. She put everything into this to get it made.
Not enough budget for wardrobe, okay...uses her own clothes. Calls in favors from contacts.
OG Director leaves, okay...hold her beer....helps direct her co-stars, and pulls up her personal contact list for casting.
No money for music...oh look at that...sings half the ost at a cut rate.
I want her to be a producer on this show so freaking badly because of how passionate she was about the Hidden Love project.

thank you, and done.

I think whomever plays Sang Yan needs to be able to have the same rizz that Chen Zhe Yuan brought to Duan Jia Xu. Sang Yan teases the ever loving shit out of Yi Fan with simple looks and presence. It can't come off as cheesy or cringe. Their first meeting is him letting Yi Fan assume he's older than her, and being completely unbothered by things such as the school bell.

Sang Yan plays around with CLOSE friends and family, but the second he is around people he doesn't like he gets very cold/standoffish/sarcastic. His little sister Sang Zhi might think he doesn't have any game in the romance department, but she was completely in the dark about his almost decade long unrequited love. He also is famous in their hometown for being extremely attractive and untouchable...like an idol/star. To the point where his bar, Overtime, doesn't look like a bar from the outside, but is the most popular bar on the street simply because of his presence/vibe.

Also, I'm going to need the scenes of Sang Yan with Jai Xu at university and how the whole campus thought they were a golden couple, and both of them couldn't be bothered to correct peoples' assumptions. As one was more focused on making money to pay his father's debut, and the other was still hung up on his desk-mate.

I've seen a lot of actors fail at trying to be cold/indifferent, but still convey interest/humor. I'm going to need someone with strong eye acting ability. I'm talking the way Rang Rang looks at Zai Zai in 'When I Fly Towards You' and Jai Xu looks at Sang Zhi in 'Hidden Love'. All three stories are by the same author. The main difference in character between Sang Yan and Jai Xu is that Sang Yan is people pleaser/flirt as a defense to his teen trauma, and Sang Yan never needed to flirt with or please anyone(cause he rich-rich), his is blunt with his speech and has a cutting/sardonic sense of humor. He's never in a hurry and he dresses like a grim reaper.
Just thinking of his interview after his apartment fire and how blunt and unbothered he was and how everyone made it a meme of sorts. Unbothered King.

Sang Yan always seemed villain coded to me, but like greenest of green flag villains. And now all i can see is if Korea ever adapted this they would need to cast Byeon Woo Seok as Sang Yan.

In case you haven't check the page lately...the actress has changed again. Nothing seems to be confirmed anywhere yet.

I still haven't finish watching episode 15...They did the one thing that pisses me off as a person. Don't make your villain queer and especially don't make the queerness the reason they are the villain.
This isn't Hays Code days...this trope is used up and they needed to do better. #1 rule in having queer representation...don't make the only queer person the "bad guy". If multiple characters are queer and one so happens to be the bad guy, that is completely different. I'll stop here. The angry rant side of me comes out when thinking about how much I loved the show until that messed up plot device twist.

I would love it if she and Yeo Jin Goo starred in something together as adults. They worked well together as children and I would love to see if they still have good onscreen chemistry together now that they are older. I'm still delulu enough to want the whole younger cast of 'The Moon Embracing the Sun' to do the adult story over again. Kim Soo Hyun was great...but almost(not all) every other "aged up" character was a bit disappointing. Even just a small skit or something...I'll take a damn tiktok meme at this point.

I was watching something recently and everyone was shocked that this one character never turned in some weird twist. Oh it's going to bug me if I can't remember the show/movie.
The the level of mistrust I have with characters that can be described as "affable" or give "good guy", "overly/too helpful" vibes. Unless you are literally paid to help the protagonist like an assistant, I will be watching you like a hawk. Like what do you have to gain from "helping" ML or FL...bombastic side-eye...criminally offensive side-eye.

The real test will come in the next week or two. Normally episodes 1-4 are the ones with the highest production and tightest storytelling. At least that's true on 16 shows aired on a network, as this is a Netflix co-production with SBS the production quality might not take a hit in later episodes. Once it starts getting into the meat of things is when the drama can go sideways(aka VFX are few and far between, sets become used more than location, writing becomes listless). So far episodes 1-4 were solid in all areas. Setting up the suspense with enough mysteries to keep people wanting to comeback for more. Worst case scenario is we have another The King: Eternal Monarch(also a Netflix/SBS co-lab) on our hands and we get sponsors/ads shoved in our faces 5x an episode.

If you are more of a binge-watcher I would hold until Christmas/New Year as there is going to be a two week gap between episode 10 and 11 as this is an SBS show and they host many New Years/Christmas Specials the week of the 29th and 30th. So this could be a good time to catch up without having to deal with too many spoilers.

If you are someone who likes the community discourse/discussion each week more than a one and done, I say go for it. The styling alone makes it nice to look at. They are serving look after look after look. Like it's a damn runway. Also as a large part of the plot is a murder mystery it might be smarter to watch as it airs so you can avoid spoilers more actively.

I hope this helps anyone debating about when to start watching. Sorry for the essay. :)

Oh thank you! I'm not the only one who is looking at Joo Seok Hoon with major side-eye. Also he fits the body type of leather hands dude.
I think he might have a genuine interest in Do Do Hee, but I think he had something to hide within the company and he is the one behind Joo Cheon Sook's murder. I can't tell if he wanted to be the one to marry Do Do Hee because he likes her and wants to protect her. Or if he wants to be closer to her to better hide the truth from her. Or a comb of both.

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong....Joo Seok Hoon is the nephew of the late Chairwoman right?

i feel like chapter 73 & onwards are definitely more AI translated, but better than nothing. & it does have chapters 1-29. im so glad it helped someone. i can at least get the story/plot beats. but those pronouns are all over the place.

I think I just spent an hour trying to find the English translation of this story again after realizing that the OG translator wiped their page(losing chapters 1-29) and then wattpad was like yoink...no more First Frost which had stopped updating at chapter 74ish. So I finally found it again under it's alt name "Hard to Deceive" on MTLNovel.com. Hopefully this helps those of you who are also curious about Sang Yan and YiFan's story.

What I liked about Sang Yan in 'First Frost' was getting to know the character when he is actually trying to impress someone he cares about romantically. The Sang Yan in 'Hidden Love' is from the perspective of a younger sister and best friend. Sang Yan in 'First Frost' is from the perspective of a crush/lover. Same person just different sides of his personality. We only got very small glimpses of the more calculated/cold/standoffish side of Sang Yan in Hidden Love as Yi Fan is kind of the cause of that side of his personality. As the character is VERY secretive in general it makes sense we didn't see that side of him. Can't remember the exact timeline, but I think he lives with Yi Fan for over a year before anyone figures it out. The dude knows how to keep a secret.
Although I think if given the opportunity Victor could do a good job, I agree that the actors listed by White Deer would suit Sang Yan better in First Frost. We need someone who could be the "Icon/Idol/God of Depraved Street".

I know that Lu Si is friends with Victor and there was already a repour there too work with as well with Chen Zhe Yuan. When she was helping to make sure that Hidden Love got made she was calling in lots of favors from friends and businesses she had working relationships with. I just wish that whomever they get to produce and direct this show is as passionate about the project as Lu Si was for Hidden Love. The girl fought tooth and nail to get it right, so I only hope First Frost can receive the same amount of love and care.

If is not apparent by the wall of text above I've been wanting to talk about these two shows/stories with someone for a hot minute. As I think First Frost's English translation was wiped off the internet I really need this show to be made....like yesterday.

Previously it was Zhang Yuxi.

in a country that has a high unemployment rate for people in their 20s & lack of housing etc...the viewers where not down for a "poor little rich girl" storyline. it was a whole lot more than just that but yeah. it's kind of like how some Americans talk about nepo babies.
just to add on i dont agree with the hate she got. but the netizens truly trolled/memed the whole show to filth.

not the writer, but the production team. when viewers started praising the actor more than the ML on social networks they cut his character's scenes down drastically.

because the 2ML(brother)'s actor was becoming more popular & viewers were shipping him with the FL, the production cut A LOT of his scenes down...A LOT. Let's jst say YY should have definitely stayed away from social networks during the airing of this show.

oh...so many reasons. The tea was freaking hilarious in real time. Cnetizens memed the HELL out of this show. The actor who plays the 2ML was more popular so the show writers/editors CUT HIS SCENES which obviously pissed off the fans. With YY's typical acting level not meeting the standard the viewers wanted. (lets all me honest, when he is too aware of himself it looks like he has a pole up his ass.) With China's economy & the current issues 20 somethings are dealing with EVERYTHING that was a hardship for the FL was met with...so what you're rich now...suck it up. You're wasting resources in this economy for a water fight!? level comments.
And the cherry on top was the fact the government had to make multiple statements about proper use and safety of fire extinguishers as well as some other PSAs throughout the airing. It was an entire shit show on weibo. If you can find the English translation videos on youtube about everything that happened...worth it alone to search.

thank you. she mentioned aunt-in-law & her uncle many times in this episode to the FL so i was extremely confused. It must have just been teasing. aka "you're going on a blind date? what about my uncle?" i was interpretating it as the niece knowing about their relationship, not her try to play matchmaker.

i need some help. Im on episode 19 & must have had a long blink during a previous episode...
When did the FL and the real niece figure out each other's connection to the ML?
Did i skip a scene?