Orion

The fact that you call constructive criticism "hysterical and nonsensical" in a piece you wrote about a difficult topic shows you're not taking your subject seriously. If you cared about abuse and rape victims, you would at least consider the fact that some things are offensive and traumatic to them, regardless of your own beliefs. Using that word wrongly is. Someone who cares would at least pause and think, when so many people point it out and get their comments liked/supported by others so much.

The numerous people pointing it out are not on some campaign to offend you and we are not pulling this out of our behinds here. We know, for a fact, that a lot of people who have been through rape find the casual usage of the word offensive and triggering. If you write a piece like this and yet deny those people their right to be offended and call others pointing that out hysterical and overly sensitive, you are not doing your own write-up justice.

If you write a piece trying to defend the pain and rights of those who suffer, yet remain willfully blind to the fact that your text includes something offensive to those, you look like a hypocrite. And that's my last "hysterical and nonsensical" comment to someone who clearly has a long way to go before being able to seriously handle topics as big as the ones you mention in your text.

I have to agree with CassioKiyoshi and Kachiiing on this one. Using the word 'rape' was quite a bad move. 'Rape' is not some general category of violation, even if it might be used poetically (the rape of nature by the industry and such). 'Rape' is unwanted sexual violation and penetration. It is a very specific crime.

By using that word for hair cutting (as bad as it is), and furthermore asserting it "is considered", rather than that you personally consider it, you make it sound as a widely accepted term for it. It's not. By using it as such, you belittle the act of rape as a crime and therefore the experiences of rape victims. 'Rape' is not a word to use lightly or for any type of mistreatment for a reason.

Furthermore, you forget context and time period. The series you speak of portrays Korean society in 1997. As unwanted as corporal punishment and other such fear-inducing tactics of discipline may be now and in some places, this was considered a normal parental right for that time period. Do you know that corporal punishment in schools was only made illegal in some liberal regions of South Korea in 2010? Some areas still very much use it. Again, portrayal of a reality vs. condoning it. I have not watched the series to know which is the case here, but it being there does not automatically make it problematic. We cannot be angry at everything based on our own culture and its progressiveness, that is why context and understanding the cultural/societal/historical basis of something is important. We can criticize the problem from a more educated standpoint that way.

I think your text has some well-placed arguments and we need more folks speaking about these topics, but you do have some problematic ideas and characterizations in there too and this is why such texts need to be discussed and why constructive criticism is vital. It's never fun being criticized, but I hope you understand that it's an opportunity to grow, assuming it's constructive, of course.

Yes, the "horny and rapey" virgin-shaming was not appreciated. They tried addressing the virginal "pure" girl sexist stereotype you mentioned, but took it to the other unhealthy and stereotypical side of the spectrum. They did base it on beliefs about the type of ghost, but given losing her virginity was not her grievance after all, we cannot simply see her behavior as some form of ghost-madness that lowered her inhibitions. It was an entertaining drama and it did focus on its women (half-progressive and valuable for it), but it also had major issues with how it approached "modernity".

Korean drama is actually mostly made for women in their 30s and 40s (the main audience within Korea), but it is true that it is watched by a lot of younger audiences, especially in China, Japan and the other smaller markets. Most of Dramafever's audience is women in their teens and early 20s. Even if it were watched by adult men, there are no excuses for perpetuating harmful mindsets which are the cause of pain to a great deal of people on a daily basis.

It is understandable that culture and habits play a part, but creators and educated film- and tv-makers need to respect the topics they handle. Thankfully, things are changing rapidly in kdrama, as many of them are addressing at least some of these issues. We are getting less abuse, more strong (meaning well-written and nuanced) female characters and more. But criticism is important for continued improvement and as I mentioned in a comment about 'Oh My Ghost' below, there are a lot of misguided or half-baked problematic attempts at being woman-friendly by reversing the abuse, rather than stopping it.

That is true. The series tries to show how important work is and how much those who desperately need it are willing to go through, women included who face sexism. At the same time, I am sure there must be some systems in place to prevent that.

Or then the show should have made it clearer that she would actually be the one getting fired if she did speak up about it in an official setting. Maybe they could have shown it with another character, that it is actually dangerous to speak up against such abuse in the workplace in Korea, if accurate, but they did not spend enough time with that.

I mean, her senior had been harassed by that same person and got him proper punishment through the company, so they should have at least shown those options more, rather than paint it as an inevitable reality, as much as it really might be for some, quitting their job aside.

'Oh My Ghost' barely saved itself from its issues with consent. It was essentially a story about two women who made a deal to mislead a man and sleep with him without his knowledge of the situation or consent. And it was portrayed as light and fluffy and sweet.

They did eventually play up the "it was wrong" card, but there were hardly any decent apologies from both and it does not help with the happy, fun tone of this abuse while it was happening to him.

In trying to be progressive and woman-friendly, it fell into the same abusive traps of kdrama, just with the genders reversed. Just think about a situation where a young man's ghost makes a deal with a living young man to seduce a young woman and sleep with her. I doubt it would ever be shown as cute and fluffy.

Misguided attempt at feminism or "let's do it because it's trendy" approach to it, I guess. They missed the part where it's not about maintaining the problematic things and inflicting them upon men, but about doing away with these problematic things altogether.

As I said in a Soompi piece about the topic, there is a difference between condoning something and portraying it. I think most of your examples are spot on, as they are done by characters supposed to be adored and in situations that are romanticized.

However, something like the misogyny in the workplace of 'Misaeng' is simply portraying the reality many women face, rather than condoning, romanticizing or idealizing it. That said, one of the characters did become "nicer" later on due to the lady being persistent and capable, which I personally did not like, as it did not feel realistic at all and it kind of excused his behavior as "He just needed a nice enough lady to like so he will stop being a pig". Which is just not how such people work and it is no woman's responsibility to make a non-pig out of such people through perseverance and camaraderie.

At the same time, when villains or antagonists do these things, they are again not condoned. Still, it is usually the victims' reactions in those occasions which are problematic. When the shows paint them as brave and of higher morals for accepting the abuse, as if reacting to it or filing a complaint would make them uncool. It is also a problem when the slap or abuse is not necessary for characterization or moving the plot or then for social commentary. If it's there just to be there and make people go "Oh no! Bad guy/girl!", it basically calls the audiences idiots and paints the rest of the evil deeds by the character as not bad enough unless sealed by a slap.

It's all about context. Presentation, usage and the reasons why it is shown, as well as portrayal vs. condoning. Thanks for the piece.

Another great group of ladies! So many awesome women here. Imagine if we had shows with such ladies leading. Leading in roles outside of the usual drama-ajumma stereotypes. That would be beautiful. Thanks for featuring my comment too. ^_^

Sadly, ageism and sexism are not imaginary concepts in entertainment and the South Korean one is no different. It is much harder to find prominent ladies over a certain age. They are there, but they are usually not given the exposure and strong roles they could carry, so they kind of fade in the attention of audiences.

Thank you for bringing some attention to them, because they are awesome and deserve much better for their talent than what they are getting. The industries would be poorer without them.

I won't argue with you on your definition of "professional writing" and your comparison of a filmography to a piece promoting someone's perceived character, since you are clearly on your own page about that.

But when you write a piece that you know is controversial and which shows support for an artist who committed a serious crime, you cannot demand that people do not get offended by the piece glorifying him or comment on their dislike. Nobody disrespects your right to speak your mind, but they have every right to disagree with you or criticize the site for potentially harmful content. This is not your personal blog and you can therefore not pull the "don't visit if you don't like it" subterfuge. We can see right through it and patronizing your audience is generally not a great practice.

Please consider the legitimacy of people's grievances over this piece and this person, as well as the gravity of domestic abuse before you get defensive about it.

I am very sorry for what you went through and I agree with free speech when it comes to addressing adults. However, age restrictions exist for a reason. MDL is a site with many teenagers, no doubt, many of them young girls. There *has* to be some responsibility in the material posted, since it is likely not something a parent would consider a site to monitor or one which can provide harmful material. Especially in a fandom where excitement and glamor can easily blind young folks, there have to be some guidelines.

Think about all the things, kdramas included, which often romanticize abuse, lack of agency for women and "romantic jerks" for girls. And even they have a big 15+ or 19+ on them, even though many parents surely ignore it. Perhaps if entertainment and media were a bit more socially conscious, along with schools and parents being more involved with their children's upbringing, we could both learn to punish abusers more as a society and get them the help they need and also teach our young girls the warning signs. Promoting adoration and refusal of crimes of such individuals on a site (and fandom in general) were teenage and very young girls are a big demographic is just something which should not be taken lightly.

I don't think the article should be taken down. She did a lot of work on it and now it's done anyway. I just hope MDL will improve its guidelines and site ethics in the future. Editing and refraining from condoning violent behaviors and idolization of criminals is nothing irrational.

It is a sticky situation for a lot of news portals and other sites. On one hand, he is still active and therefore they need to cover news about him for those who still follow his career. On the other hand, you are right about social responsibility. Also, how recently the incident took place shouldn't matter. It doesn't become ok after a while.

My personal issue with this piece being on MDL and not the author's personal blog comes from the fact that it is not simply unbiased and neutrally reported news or pure critique on his acting career, but basically an editorial of someone fawning over this person. Talking about his sexy skin and great character has nothing to do with acting or singing, last I checked.

And it is not a person who smoked pot or had marital fidelity issues or other such victimless crimes and/or personal problems, but someone who committed a pretty big crime against another individual. As you say, a large part of the global, English-speaking hallyu fandom is women and often very young women, so this is an issue even heavier for those such pieces are aimed at.

If it were just news reporting or simply a piece about acting, I would not hold MDL responsible. They need to report, even though they are not mainly a news site, so one could argue they could avoid that too. Still, I'd get reporting at least. I have to agree though, if a site allows authors to represent its user base with their opinions and personal feelings on artists, they are the ones who need to consider what those opinions and feelings convey.

The day we get to see domestic abuse called a "disputable scandal" has indeed arrived. I respect your right to write this article and it is a brave move indeed, but you cannot really expect people to not comment on his situation.

A lot of folks feel very strongly about abuse and it affects so many that it is likely many here have experienced it too or know others who have. If you are prepared and willing to still be his fan, then you should also accept the fact that a lot of people have strong and negative opinions about him.

As for his acting, 'Inspiring Generation' was a ray of hope after years of nothing, but I imagine plenty of people have lost interest in seeing how he does in the future. I certainly have.

History of the Salaryman is life. ♥

Thanks for another lovely piece.

'Triangle' is actually one of Lee Beom's Soo's worst performances, some really good scenes aside, so if you already like him there, then you're good. I suggest 'Giant', 'History of the Salaryman' and 'Surgeon Bong Dal Hee' from dramas. For his performance alone, although a very disappointing series due to its final episodes, go for 'Prime Minister and I'.

As for his movies, there are so many of them. I made a short recommendations list on my blog, but off the top of my head, 'Descendants of Hong Gil Dong', 'Lifting King Kong' and 'Au Revoir, UFO' are quite different in what he shows in them. 'Where is Jeong Seung Pil' is also kind of crazy, but the cast and some of the comedy is worth it all.

And I agree about skills and value not being the stuff of leading roles. Ageism is a big problem and not making the star appeal checklist means many wonderful folks are always secondary. They still shine in those roles, some of them even salvage works by being in them. Thankfully, cinema is not as bad as dramas in this aspect (many older actors and actresses still lead there), but I hope it stays that way.

Also, if he is within your covered age range for these pieces, I'd love to see your thoughts on Cheon Ho Jin. Another great guy many surely know and love.

Another nice one with a lot of awesome actors. My first impressions of Jung Woo Sung were also not so great, or rather I did not get the big deal back then, but as I watched him more, he has some pretty amazing moments when the roles allow him to go for it.

And of course the rest of the gentlemen simply shine in everything they do. Even in works that might be bad, you can always count on them to maintain the highest level of quality in their personal performance.

Awesome! :D

With the increasing obsession with youth that is even penetrating Korean cinema now, it's good to see people still acknowledge, respect and want to see more of all the actors whose performances can never be matched by some of the young alternatives. Plus, age does not suddenly take your hotness away in my book.

I can't wait for the rest of your pieces and I would love to see one about older ladies too. Sadly, those get even less love by fans, especially dramas ones, given most of us vocal ones are straight women of the younger fangirl variety.

But for now, I'll just enjoy your ajeossi-galore! Thank you! :D

I think he's very handsome too, but you have to consider the Korean celebrity standards. For those, he is average. So he is not one who has been given privilege for his looks. In that sense, his success in even dramas is only a testament to his value as an actor and the value of others like him.

It really is. It is an epic melodrama. Definitely one of Lee Beom Soo's best works.