ShortCircuit

(Prepare for some mad fangirling LOL)

NiF is the best cdrama ever made, period. It's an alternate history/costume drama, not BL but includes (non-sexual) great bromance, betrayal, redemption, political games, inner court (harem) politics, a life or death battle for the MCs, wuxia (partly anyway) and the very best characters ever written for a drama, IMHO. I still feel I'm not stressing enough how good this drama is, but I don't want to scare you away :D

Lin Chen is a secondary character there and comes in toward the end of the drama, but he's also a top-level doctor, he also picks on his favourite kid to bully (non-love interest, though), he's just one who reacts to rejection by being overly close, LOL. He is arrogant (rightfully so), cute, a lady killer (not literally, but you know what I mean), whip-smart, gets way too involved in the problems of his best friends and carries all their burdens, he gets playful the more he's stressing (by the end of the drama he was out of control), can see beyond anyone's facades, even if they're really good at poker face... He's special. And he's rude to basically almost anyone (even some royalty, LOL). Because he wants to, not because he can - he just doesn't care to be polite to those who don't raise up to his standards.

(I love him, does it show? :D)

Here's NiF's best trailer, just for a look-see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYSZpTICPzs

Seriously, this is one of the very best dramas I've ever seen and deserves a watch - you might like it :D

Sports (and romance): Pride

Detective/police: Hero, Bitter Blood

Mystery/thriller: Bloody Monday

Hurt/healing (disability): Silent

LBGTQ+: Kieta Hatsukoi, Kamisama no Ekohiiki, Cherry Magic

Movies (of the newish kind): Rurouni Kenshin (5 movie series), Your Eyes Tell, His.

ETA: NF drama: House of Ninjas (TBH I think it's not half bad. But it is a bit Westernized, if you've grown up with shounen anime and expect that kind of vibe.)

LSG got married and his wife's family was involved in a scandal, so he has to keep a low profile for a while. It's frowned upon to be on the side of a scammer who left thousands of people in poverty (the father of the bride).

LDW is over-booked, what with ASFK and the drama he's in right now that posptponed the making of the second season of ASFK (that has been promised).

Most of them (the men) are past their military service. It might be that 1. they make enough money from side contracts for promotional products and the like not to be that desperate for a new drama/movie, and/or 2. they want to be picky, particularly because the scripts being available now are quite repetitive and uninspiring. Or they just want to get a good contract, not just ANY contract.

Oh, so in that case repecting elders is not a SK cultural value any more?! My bad :D

Don't worry, you're in the clear, I'm not that old anyway. Don't take everything so personally, though. Sorry if my tone seemed condescending, it really wasn't my intention. A bit of tiredness might be at work too. Anyway, be well.

I feel like we're speaking different languages here despite both of us using English, so further discussion would be a waste of time. Have a nice day :)

Except it doesn't look fake (mostly) and it doesn't just happen because everybody needs to see some tits. (Also, TBH, the French never cared about fake prudishness anyway, LOL).

Yes, but it's not like it's enforced, is it? A lot of people from my country emmigrated (some even to the States) and tried as hard as they could to integrate in those cultures. Which is also pretty natural, IMHO, as they have to live there. That doesn't mean that the little bits of culture that traveled with them are always expressed or even fit inside the place they went to.

Cultural values and traditions knowledge is not the same as living inside those traditions and with those values. (I'm not being pedandic here, and as I've said, it's late and I might not express myself best, but I do see a difference). (ETA since you also ETA-ed: Who's talking about Americans in the SK or SK in the States?! I copied what you wrote in your own page because it seems important that you are not discussing from a South Korean's perspective, but an American SK's perspective, which IMHO is not really the same. And OBVIOUSLY if it needs to be said, you can take pride in your roots, but this is a different topic, isn't it? Nobody's attacking you, so please stop defending...)

But that is also not what we were talking about as the editorial is discussing how kdramas changed, from a foreigner's POV, in the past few years (they say since Western money started intruding in the SK drama industry). And kdramas DID change. (And again, YES, it's not even about how a lot or most of them weren't that great anyway, but they were a different kind of not that good from the Western media's not that good dramas, and that too was a novelty that drew outside audience to kdramas).

Nobody's attacking or trying to save anyone else's culture here, and may I say, there are a lot of people in the West who are definitely not that white anyway, so let's not even bring that into focus again. Since YOU started watching dramas, did you feel they were changing? Or if YOU watched some older dramas (that were meant just for the SK audience), is there any remarkable difference from today's modern dramas' styles? That would be interesting to discuss.

But, Madison, don't get me wrong here - you were born in China from a Korean-American father (and presumably a Chinese mother, sorry if I'm making a mistake) but you've been living in the States since you were 4... So what part of the culture in Asia are you familiar with, in truth? The part that transmigrated over to the States, as much as it could?

You are exactly in our position here, TBH - we're all in the outside looking in, with the added bonus of maybe speaking one or two of the languages of your parents for you, but otherwise not really living IN those cultures.

Obviously much of what is produced for entertainment is so much hot garbage and with some hidden gems, AS ALWAYS, even in the West, who said it wasn't so? But the editorial is not about how kdramas HAVE to be the best everytime, all the time, instead it's about how the {author's} perception of dramas changed FROM a foreign watcher's perspective. That, for a pretty short period of time - just 6 years. From a perspective of about 20 years, yeah, it changed a whole lot. Sometimes for the better, later not so much.

Except for the people living and watching in SK or China or any of the other Asian countries producing media, who can take the pulse of things from inside that country, the outsiders (of which I'm one, and according to what you wrote on your page, you are too) can only compare their past experiences to their current ones.

And that was what people were commenting about - mostly.

This is definitely not meant as an ad hominem, BTW, and maybe it's way too late at night to have such a discussion (in my time region, anyway, LOL), but seriously, don't create strawman arguments where there are none.

P. S. I just finished My Demon and didn't ever catch the Blackpink referrence, LOL, either. I might not be paying attention to anything kpop in dramas *sigh*

It was never mainstream though, just as @Ivy said. "The copious amounts of very graphic violence you wouldn't see on television, except maybe after midnight" is on point. And it wouldn't be in any television network either, just cable (much less audience than the over-the-air networks.)

Now though, they're on NF or D+ or Hulu, available anytime, anywhere, on your phone, on demand, easy to share or re-watch if you wanted. That's what changed. And the streaming platforms financing new dramas know this very well and don't have to take many precautions as the SK teams have to.

You asked me in the other comment what would current older population in SK say if they saw it - I've no idea, I don't live there. I guess the daytime dramas (that run for many more eps than the short/regular-drama format) are the most watched for that part of the population, and those still respect the TV standards. (Or else.)

The thing is - they DID have that kind of scenes, but, as I said, mainly in gritty, noir, dark-themed dramas about the underworld or violent bullying and whatnot. NOT in the romcoms and not in the middle-of-the-road police/crime/thrillers. (There, the scary things were mostly body parts and gruesome crime scenes, not really nudity and not often sexual violence).

For a very simple and commercial reason that it didn't use to happen is that a good drama usually has good actors, and if it's not their debut, it's their reputation in the game. Nobody (particularly the actresses, but the actors too) wanted to have a drama where they have to be naked and/or have sex, because it would definitely impact their commercial value. SK is a very conservative society, and before the last ten years or so, streaming didn't happen, it was all on TV. All the little risky bits of drama were ONLY on cable networks (like OCN before they stopped making interesting dramas, or tvN before they discovered how much good romcoms could get them in terms of ads.) People watching the dramas on TV were older and even more conservative than today's middle-aged population, so they would definitely NOT approve any kind of sexual (or much too violent) story. Production companies always knew where all their money was coming from, so they never crossed that hard line.

Now streaming is making people more connected, and younger generations are already exposed to violence and sex in other media (usually American, though I think Europeans also have a place in this, we just don't make that many original dramas anyway, and some of the countries here are also pretty conservative...) so when some kdramas made it big, some of the actors too decided to get those big money when they could, because it's never guaranteed their fame would last long enough to get them whatever they wished for. You get to see KSH taking drugs and drinking and having casual sex with a stranger (female) in One Ordinary Day - and he IS that one huge star who could never have survived it just ten years back. I don't know if OOD ever got released over TV in SK, though it was released on a small network that I don't even recognize the name of, LOL.

So people - even big names - are now prepared, at least mentally, to take that risk, all for the money, and because even if it's NF or any other streaming company available in SK too, it will mostly not get to the older generations that DO care a lot about propriety (and even if it did, it's not them who are buying things that are advertised using the big name actors anyway). That doesn't mean the production is always worth that money, even with big name actors attached. But that's one part of the whole process.

MY POV, though, is that much of the full-on nudity (and sexual violence) does not NEED to be graphic and IMHO is much better when it's just implied. To me, that's a lot more scarier than having to watch the whole horrific act in detail. I mean, there's a scene in Fabricated City where the ML is obviously going to be raped (in a prison setting), and we're never shown what actually happens to him, just the before and the after. And I believed it happened to him because 1. it's obvious, you can't miss it even without the graphic content and 2. it's a homogenous part of the plot.

Or for the afore mentioned A Killer Paradox - there are two sex scenes in it, actually. The first, the completely unwarranted one, shows the full naked body of the actress copulating with the ML (who is not doing anything much other than staying there, very little of him actually exposed.) The sex scene has no relation to anything in the rest of the drama or that came before. Nothing. It bears no consequences, it makes no influence on anything, and it's revealed the woman is not even "there", he's just masturbating thinking of her because of no actual reason but to insert some sex in the whole nothingburger. And THEN, mid-drama, there's another scene, involving a female victim of a loverboy con who films their sex act and leaks it then blackmails her with it. Again, the woman is shown completely naked, the man very much not, BUT the scene has huge links to the latter part of the drama and is not just put there to tittilate teenagers. I'd say the first scene could have been left out and nothing would've changed. The second one - while I'd have preferred not to see it - made sense in the story.

So yeah, there's a huge difference between impactful and needed scenes and scenes put there just because they could. I think the huge original success of the GoT type of nude sex scenes got to everybody's head and made them lose their minds and equate sex scenes with success or something.

That goes for violence scenes, too, but this already looks like a novel so I'll just end it here, LOL.

Not having explicit sex scenes in dramas (maybe some skin bared in gritty noirs and the like, but definitely not in any other genres) was one of the draws of kdramas as compared to Western media. I for one (speaking just for myself) am more likely to watch something not really in-my-face all the time, I do NOT need to see tits and bare buttocks to know they're intimate with each other. Not to mention that it's usually the woman who is getting the full-frontal treatment, and never the man (who is mostly, if ever, seen from the back). It's pretty low level of entertainment, and I - speaking for myself, again - do not like nudity as a means to an end. Some of the scenes I've seen (usually in NF/D+ etc-produced dramas) are not even really needed, like that totally unwarranted sex scene in A Killer Paradox, for example.

Kdramas didn't have that kind of scenes (or not many, and when they did, it used to be pretty important) before production (or budgets) were taken over by Western streaming companies, that demanded whatever they knew would make people watch.

Also, while SK always was a step ahead in horror, it didn't used to be so CGI-heavy and most of the best dramas had their weight in the psychology of horror. I already mentioned it below - SH the first season had lots of scare jumps and gallons of blood and even some mild almost-nudity, but it's strength was in the psychology of human relations under stress. I watched as a captivated audience, and I usually do not like horror (at all, though I did watch some). The second and third season downgraded into lazy plots, lots of meningless action and deaths of MCs for the sake of shock, and didn't really have a satisfying ending. It did have lots and lots of CGI monsters and overkill fighting scenes. And they were very meh.

More is not always better, and it looks like streaming sites financing new shows want to milk anything possible out of the freshness of kdramas (whatever is left of it) but westernize them too, so that it makes the most people watch those shows. What quality they are means very little, as long as they LOOK pretty and they draw the public for that first (and usually only) stream-watch.

For myself, TBH, I don't mind. I have plenty other de-stressing mechanisms and there's always one good drama among dozens of bad stuff that I can find. But it doesn't mean I don't see it changing, and yes, some if not most of the new stuff is catered to a more international audience (which also means it's losing its original flavour that made it so appealing in the first place.)

I tried Decoy (the first part anyway), but TBH I must've grown past my anti-hero as a main character phase, I didn't like the premise and/or the execution of it. And I'm really REALLY tired of seeing the actual well-intending true hero (or as much as a true hero a police story can offer) getting killed or side-tracked or corrupted by the dark side. I do miss older OCN dramas, tvN tried for a bit but there's nothing like those noirs that did allow some hope to get through, though... I might try Decoy again, if the mood fits :D

LOL @BTS mentioned, I didn't watch either of those dramas (romcoms right? Not my usual pick, though they do happen now and then). I always thought dramas tried not to mention anyone or any group by name, just in case someone takes offense and sues the production team. I cannot remember any actual stars/idols/groups that are real and are mentioned in kdramas that I do watch (only the made-up ones, like the one in Lovely Runner, that I already forgot the name of, LOL).

I KNOW!!! And I made the mistake of watching those 4 eps and waiting - because it wouldn't be long, and they took it down, dammit. I wish I never started it, since it was so good. This happened to MoDu, and only the ~mistake~ of that guy who uploaded all eps of The Spirealm made it that the drama was ever watched, LOL.

I still hope, though, I mean, what else is there? It's not like the dramas aren't filmed already (2ha, Seizing Dreams, Eternal Faith too - all high calibre danmei stories, all already completed, just waiting for the right time.) *keeping fingers crossed*

Sneaky of them :D

Now if they get the courage to make/air more actual danmei and they don't really explode all over the streming sites like TU, maaaaaybe the censorship will relent. Here's (still) hoping to see 2ha in our lives LOL.

I am mystified as to how on hell does this even show up on Douban, TBH. And it seems to be a pretty high rating, if it's actually for this drama anyway, though - seriously - how are they listing it? Are they using the Thai version to rate it?

I don't think it even officially aired anywhere in China. If people there watched it, they did over VPN on some non-mainland streaming site. And I highly doubt there will be any promotion or mentions of it over SM, since the watchers cannot watch it officially/legally there.

I've been watching kdramas since before streaming became easy and available everywhere (including on phones and apps). I never got the kpop virus TBH, though I'd probably now call myself an Atiny, and that just for that one group. So to speak, I am an older kdrama addict, LOL.

TBH, it's not like this detached feeling is something new. It's ALWAYS been that some drama hit it big and there were dozens of others covering the same concept the next season - we had lawyer season, sci-fi season, demon/paranormal season, every kind of Hunger Games-themed drama season, romcom season (well, MANY romcom seasons, you can't go wrong with romcoms), military season, cop bromance + serial killer season, and so on, and so forth.

With the dramas that are already announced to air soon - wanna bet we'll have a (maybe Olympic) sports season of similar dramas? :D

And frankly, I don't really mind it. Whenever kdramas get too repetitive, I turn to cdrama and Thai and Japanese dramas, it's not like there isn't plenty of fish in the lake. And the cdramas will definitely NOT fall into the same pit as foreign-produced kdramas (not that they don't have their own pits, LOL).

The MAIN thing to learn though is WHEN to let go if the drama really isn't your thing. There are some that might suprise you in the end and become good when you were pretty sure they wouldn't, but those are pretty rare and far in-between. I've learned to drop dramas or place them on-hold with the vague idea I'll return to them sometime, but it's not like there aren't any other dramas to watch. And real life actually doesn't leave me that much time to spend as life happens.

Re: the dramas mentioned in the editorial. Well, Sweet Home first season was amazing (and I am NOT a horror-fan AT ALL). The next two were kind of very meh. I'll just pretend only the first season exists. My Demon - well, I took that as a glam fest (did you see all the pretty, LOL? So much pretty :D) and didn't expect anything more than that from it, from the very beginning. So no unfullfilled expectations there. Dropped KtL (because not even all the pretty could save that one for me), found BP so-so, didn't really watch the others (particularly the game-themed dramas, those are definitely putting my hairs up, even the concept is awful for me, even if the genre seems to be the most sucessful given so many watchers).

So what I'm trying to say is - there's not really an oversaturation, maybe an overspecialisation and a trend to give people what they want to watch, even if it turns repetitive.

And yeah, there's kind of a lack of a good police story lately - but for whoever is looking, there's still Connection, right? :D

P. S. Where the heck do BTS get mentioned? I don't remember even one instance when they're mentioned in any dramas I've watched (or maybe they were but it was so subtle that it didn't even ring a bell?!)

Thanks for the editorial, write some more :D

QSM felt to me more like Lin Chen (from Nirvana in Fire), and I loved him :D

Xiao Bao and Jin Bao were separating like Jack and Rose, LOL. I loved their respective SO's force-separating them, hahaha~ And ZhaoCai is now left to admire how his master can be all kinds of lovey-dovey, #giveZhaoCaialover

HuaiEn started totally uninterested and trying to use XiaoBao and ended up totally whipped, wrapped around XiaoBao's finger.

I haven't read the novel, so I have no idea what was skipped, but that last part with the refugees was kind of out of the blue. Unless it was supposed to get the Crown Prince back in the picture. He and XiaoBao will forever be cats and dogs in the tropey way, LOL.

Anyway - I liked this one. It's not the best, but there were parts of it that were really good, the acting was also good, everybody looked great, oh well the budget just wasn't there, and TBH, it's not the danmei I would've chosen to make into a drama, but maybe it was a buy-one-get-two, with My Stand-In as the other, LOL. I'm not complaining, I just wish some more authors found this work-around and sold the rights to some of the better danmeis out there to whoever wants to invest and bring it to the outside-China world!

OMG I love A Certain Someone!!!! Thanks for the heads-up!! Is it another Thai/Chinese co-production, or just Chinese? (in which case I'll just temper my expectations, given what iQiYi just did to the latest BL they made...)