SinGood

You can tell these to the young ones not to the 30 year-olds and plus who have been through different relationships. I was even homophobic and yet have managed to change that. I am now proud to say I am gay that my friends and family know about it despite initial resistance from my parents that they even wanted me to become a priest.

And I know this trope has been used in the mainstream. But you forget to consider that this is an art form and that's why it's intended for the mature audience who have proper discernment. Is the show trying to promote the trope to be applied in relationships? If you think it's unhealthy, then would you apply it to your relationship?

Comments such as yours seem self-righteous when you forget that adult viewers can discern for themselves and can distinguish between right or wrong.

Again, you forget to consider that TharnType is for the adult audience.

Would you watch horror movies so that you will learn how to scare people or Marvel movies so you will know how to obtain superpowers?

You watch an art form with characters that are in a different universe. You watch because you want to be entertained and not to apply the errors of the ways of certain characters. That's how you become responsible audience. You watch with discernment.


If you think that watching this is wrong because of the sexual assault trope, then maybe stick to the Bible shows or to shows with no villains. I don't care.

P.S.

Have people watched The Untamed so they would become the followers of Wei Wuxian, the Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation? if you watch this and you like it and then you don't like TharnType because of the sexual harassment trope, then you are a hypocrite.

There is always that redemption arc in a storyline when the main characters started out as villains. TharnType is in another universe despite its contemporary setting so it's still considered a fantasy in a parallel universe that may have different penal laws.

I am definitely fooled. I used to really like this even though I shared its messy storyline. But its light storyline makes it easy to like and then there's a build up for romance between Sarawat and Tine. I went along with the ride on the ascent but when I reached a certain level, I felt like it dropped when I no longer recognized any sense of love chemistry between them.

It was such as a painful drop leaving me frustrated.

I think they've gotten more brave on Twitter. They were usually confined on Facebook. But then again, their views are mostly self-righteous. To even shame other fans of being pervy when they also consume homoerotic art (BL) is ironic and absurd at the same time.

Thank you for sharing your points. With what you've shared, I believe that the GMMTV BL shows offer are limited to a certain extent for the LGBTQ viewers. However, why do other channels like TunderTV and even One31 have BL shows that defied the views of the conservatives in Thailand?

Examples of these shows are Together With Me, Together With Me: the Next Chapter, TharnType and even Sapai Ka Fak.

In Sapai Ka Fak, I've watched the character of Tul Pakorn(Knock in Together With Me) being proposed publicly by the character of Simon Kessler(who appears in Bad Romance together with Tul).

So I think it's GMMTV's problem as it attempts to market BL to conservative viewers in Thailand.

"What disturbed me is that Tharn sexually assaulted him multiple times and even triggered a panic attack. And then after all that, they get into a relationship. The show brings up a legitimate problem and then stomps on it instead of really dealing with it. This happens multiple times in the show."

Perhaps, what you want for dramatic effect is not exemplified in the show. Can we cite this as a difference in culture or a different approach in dealing with issues from the norm like in the case of Type?

His sexual aggression or lust may have erased any contradictory feelings or even his past abuse as he decided to have sex with Tharn as as a kind of incentives for Tharn's good deeds. I have cited on that page many times how Tharn and Type are complex characters, who are manipulative and even decided and acted in contradiction to what we think should be right and ethical. These characters may not be appealing to some viewers who always seek for squeaky clean characters, yet very boring. That's why I feel like Tharn and Type are interesting characters. This gives me an impetus to follow their character development in a sequel. Some fans even feel this way that's why they seek for another season to determine and observe the development of their characters.

Defining this show as queer-baiting seems apt but I know die-hard fans oppose to this labeling.

But to give you points on why I've considered this show as queer-baiting, this article might help:

https://www.autostraddle.com/how-do-we-solve-a-problem-like-queerbaiting-on-tvs-not-so-subtle-gay-subtext-182718/

Points from the article:

"We’ve seen this in so many places – teased with a lesbian kiss only to have the character go back to being 100% straight next week, or for it to be a dream sequence or some other weird context that makes it meaningless – that it would take forever to list."

Take this in Sawarat and Tine's world and you will find this statement apt when so far, they only had 3 kisses (and can't be even qualified as proper kisses) and they happened before they're officially a couple. Also worth noting are the actions of Sarawat in the latter episodes, that seem like he was retracting from his romantic inclination with Tine and didn't manage to have conviction for his feelings.

Likewise, the characters are not explicitly gay. We assume them as queer but they seem to have no other physical attractions with other people of the same sex.

2. "just enough [representation] to keep us interested, but not enough to satisfy us and make us truly represented."

This is especially true in this show. We expected for more from this couple. It promises gay romance but the characters cannot be even qualified as gay as they seem to have more interest with the opposite sex. Perhaps, in the case of Tine, love for Wat wins over his other decisions but his actions are not enough to really qualify he is totally in love. A certain level of machismo is assumed that he tries to retain for self-preservation. I think ep. 12 is an example of this despite the heartache he feels.

The lack of skinship makes it appear that the relationship is more platonic. Again, this lack of skinship is a factor for LGBTQ viewers being not satisfied of their promotion of gay romance. As someone who has been in different gay relationships, I am very aware how sex is important in gay relationships. But then, the series is devoid of it or even just hints that they are committing it when they've decided to live in together. The bouquet of condoms cannot even be qualified as there are no depictions on the series that they have even used them.

I can even qualify Wat and Tine's relationship similar to that of the asexuals. There is strong love and may even have a modest level of skinship but no sex. At least, asexuals consider themselves queer but when you have a character such as Tine who used to chase the girls, there can be an assumption that he also seeks for sex to consume his love for Wat. But the show seems able to fuck up its depiction.

I am open for arguments on this. I might be able to change my mind if logical refutation is shared.

The thing that is making me confused with Bright is that he has been in the industry for 4 years and yet his acting skill is not improved. He started with straight series and he ventured in this BL with 2gether and got this fame. So I think BL is his ticket to success in the industry. I think he can be good in music.

I will check it. Thanks for the recommendation. Is it BL?

I check that it's a Chinese production.

Again, it has an adult rating so adult BL fans can discern.

As for using the rape and sexual assault as plot devices are assumptions when you just check on the surface. There's a history to it in the case of Type and Tar. This "plot device' has even been used in Western shows such as Hollyoaks in the UK with its first gay character, John Paul. Audience of that TV series, which is shown mainstream, follows the character as he battles mentally. He happens to be a teacher who has been raped by his student. Anyways, that is just an example of the thing you mention as 'plot device'.

"The show uses rape and sexual assault as a plot device when convenient and brushes it aside at other time."

From what I remember, Type has been struggling with his inner self but he considers himself strong when he compares himself to Tar.

His character his strong but when he faces with a threat, he has kind of bipolar reaction to it. You can see these actions when he was with Tharn on the first few episodes. This is where you can't see the surface because in your thinking you want it like a medical drama with characters being put into recommendation to psychiatrists and weekly counseling. That's how you want it. And the thing is that it's not a Western show like Grey's Anatomy.

Haven't you heard that Type was in a PTSD program but then he opted not to dwell much of his past after the hullabaloos of the media coverage? He had a different coping mechanism. But then another demon rose from that and it made him homophobic.

When you watch TharnType, you analyze. That's how you can use your being adult rather than being judgmental.

As someone who managed to visit a sanctuary of rape victims, I have learned that the victims of this crime have different coping mechanisms. I have even learned from a custodian that a few have become sexually aggressive. So again, knowing this and relating it to TharnType, I am lucky to be open-minded in this kind of stuff rather than dismissing it just because you want something that is even more boring or you think is ethical?


"Tharn's brother's friend's relationship with him while he was maybe 13 or 14 is never called out for how creepy it was."

What kind of comment is this? Didn't you watch that scene between Thorn and San? Thorn, Tharn's older brother got mad at San that for years he didn't forgive his best friend when he learned what his best friend did to his younger brother.


"The show also tried to humanize a character who plotted to have someone raped because they were jealous and tried to kill another character. It stigmatized metal illness by associating it with criminal behavior. Not only did the character not go to jail but people pitied him because of his backstory."

I don't know but this comment reeks of prejudice.

As a student of law, I find this appalling. Even criminals are human beings. As much as we feel prejudiced against the criminals, they are entitled to undergo due process and can only be charged guilty according to the preponderance of evidences against them or beyond reasonable doubt.

In the case of TharnType, Lhong got lucky because his sentence is not severe though he clearly committed a major offense. But he has been exiled and that is something of a punishment in his case. Should the police be involved in this? It depends on the presence of complainants. Tum can be a complainant on behalf of his step-brother Tar, who is the rape victim. But why didn't this happen in the series?

Factors:

1, The series focuses more on Tharn and Type and the production has a constraint in funds.
2. It is part of the LBC universe with Tum and Tar characters also part of it. Is it a continuing series? Yes.
3. There's also a possibility that letting Lhong go can be a wrong decision on TharnType's part or even to Tum and Tar. So we will have to see what will happen next.

You need to let go of your prejudice when watching TharnType. You analyze and listen to their dialogues. The questions you may have may even be answered in the dialogues or narration.

I think TharnType deserves a rewatch value of 5 or even 10 to really understand the story. If you are initially prejudiced, then you can not understand the storyline. When viewers already have a prejudice to it, they normally skip scenes and then their hate is manifested in the reviews,

In 2gether, I even watched each episode 5-10 times to really observe the characters, the dialogues and even the settings. That's where I know the chemistry of the actors is off in certain episode starting at ep.9 when I feel like they don't anymore click on my first watch.

True.

And most of them are highschoolers who fantasize on Bright and Win. That's why these die hard fans are immature. They're too childish and they don't even seem to care.

They seem to be doing that because their conservative views can't take it.
Most of these fans are even toxic. Fans of the couple, MewGulf, have dealt with them because of the shading they insinuated in their posting against the couple. They have hate against the couple. They probably don't feel the Love and when they see one, they're envious of it but have no qualms defending a series, that is seen as queer-baiting.

Most of these fans are actually homophobic. So, it's a sad case. They're all over this platform praising Wat and Tine and then the actors Bright and Win. Nothing against the actors but I can even say that they need more acting workshops. Win is already brilliant though but can still improve in acting skills.

Yeah, the the conservative country that likes it. I am also a Filipino but I feel like I've been scammed by this series as a gay man. There's hope for them though from the fans who are toxic and who are shaming other BL couples just because they have more intimate scenes than Wat and Tine in 2gether.

Now, I wonder how this will play out.

I have commented this as a gay man who have friends that are lesbian. :)

There's no wrong with sex unless it's abused . It's the conservative viewers who have problem with it.

Perhaps, you don't understand the mindset because you are conservative?

My view on sex is liberal. As for "over-sexualizing it", it matters to the art form that is attached to it. I'm not into "over-sexualizing" when its contents including the elements that contribute to the quality of the production may not be aligned to it or don't really blend well. Adding it may even be detrimental to the over all production. And that's said with sarcasm because "over-sexualizing" really?

Intimacy is also important in gay romance to make the coupling credible. We are not like the straights even though we may live in conservative countries.

Fetishizing, yes it may be a problem but aren't you aware of the BDSM community within LGBTQ's? Can we also blame them for contributing to the detriment of our community? Aren't this group of LGBTQ's fetishizers with their kinky preference in sex?

I don't have problem with women who may fetishize the gay characters as long as they keep it to themselves. They must practice a level of control to respect the boundaries of the gay couple. They can freely do so with the Magic Mikes, right?

And modest love in straight dramas?

Do we even have to argue with it?

Many of these straight dramas with modest scenes are coming from conservative countries. Do we really want to parallel ourselves with the heteros?

That's why many BL fans don't watch hetero romance because of the usual cliches and "romance-baiting". Even Korean dramas have straight couples kissing in a series what many would have thought as a "modest drama".

BL fans are adult or that's what I thought before until a new set of BL fans have been added to the bandwagons. But as adult who are BL fans, we have maturity in discernment. If you put shame on the intimacy part of the BL couples, you are putting a notion that sex is bad in an LGTBQ relationship.

And please be realistic about gay relationships because as someone who has been through many gay relationships, one of the foremost things I have in my mind to my partner is on how to please him through sex. It's the hormones, man. And I think many who do have the same thinking that's why my straight friends are sometimes envious because we don't have to deal with PMS.

Sex is an expression of love. And if you have problem with "over-sexualizing", isn't the adult rating enough to filter the viewers so what remains are those who are adult who can practice discernment?

Instead of saying "over-sexualizing", I prefer to say that we search or prefer for BL content in a series with a balance of quality, engaging and realistic storyline and intimacy of the couples including other elements that contribute to the quality of the production such as superb writing, cinematography, aesthetics in settings, relevance of characters in the supporting cast and coherence in sequencing and other factors. I think that should better be said than saying 'over-sexualizing' because you're shaming on other BL series that have more intimate scenes than this one.

That's why I feel like the efforts of the LGBTQ community to project gay love to the mainstream has been offset by the attempt of a certain group to make it modest so to appease the mainstream. We are in this situation that we try to be appealing to the straights by projecting modest love between boys. Is there justice to it?

Why even a simple holding hands just to show they are a couple was not even included in the series?

As a gay man, I don't want to support that kind of narrative because I feel like we are back to the 1970's to 1990's when the heteros wanted to control public display of affection between gay couples. This happens in this series. You're just trying to be blind about it just because you like the story or the actors notwithstanding other factors that might appear offensive or even be subtly demeaning to the LGTBQ community.

But I can counter it.

First, you try to make it appear that Bright and Win have more fans as a couple when many BL fans don't really feel their chemistry off-screen and can even be regarded as solo stans. I like Win more than Bright and yes, I still like Bright. But even I consider myself as a solo stan because I don't ship the actors as a couple. Despite them having more than a million followers than the couple you refer but their fans consist of conservatives who decide to ship themselves to the actors more or with other female actors as both project straight vibes and are not compatible to even be called a couple. So probably, that might help with your confusion

Second, I know which couple you're referring to. As for fan service, what they have is more real than your delusional shipping. The thing is they both are identified as LGBTQ's and their fan service can't be regarded as queer-baiting. Does too much of it have negative effects? So far, none. Only those with conservative views have problems with the way they project their love. Maybe, you belong to that category as you sound bitter.

Thirdly, there's no replacement with dedication over numbers when these small number of fans have the means. BL should not be in parallel with Kpop. LOL.

I love BTS in Korean music industry. But even the group started with small dedicated number of fans until they reach more than the industry is expected of them being a group from a small company.

Instead of making calculative remarks, just consider this as another case of David and Goliath. The couple you accuse of committing too much fanservice consists of actors coming from independent agencies and they know the industry and its evil tendencies that's why their strength is in showing genuineness while they still leave room for dedicated fans to decipher.

I actually don't want to make comparison of BL couples. But then you started it. The industry is not driven by numbers but by dedication to its smaller following compared to the mainstream. It's now that BL fans especially those who have been here for years see the realness of the couple you refer to. And don't even think of denying it. The onset of 2gether's popularity is the time when the couples receive more hate because you have a problem with their intimacy.

Guess what? You're not really here for Boys Love so why are you even here?

Just for bromance?

Okay, suit yourself.

Even lesbians can still enjoy rounds of sex after they move in together for months and even years. So no, I don't agree that they're like lesbians but I get the comparison.

As a gay man, I feel like the series lacks credibility of even labeling it as Boys Love. It is more of Bromance.

And please don't say that the series has managed to create dignified LGBTQ characters when they can't even label the main characters as gay or even bisexual outrightly. The only character they can promote as gay is Green and even his character is considered comical just because he's femme gay.

I've been watching many BL dramas for years and so far this drama brings viewers to heightened expectations for characters that try to evade the labeling of gay or bisexual. The same can be said with Sotus.

So far, it's Dark Blue Kiss out of all GMMTV BL shows that depict gay relationships in their storyline and has a lead character, Sun, who is brave of his gay orientation.

Thank you.

I've been watching these shows.

I've known about Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation a.k.a The Untamed since 2018 long before many watched it in 2019. It was underrated before and now I'm glad the story deserves more recognition.
I've watched the anime and the live action. I have already read the novel even before the live action. It has always been my favorite.

Again, the lack of history about Boys Love.

In Japan, when they turn a BL manga into live action with no intimate scenes between male characters, whose intimacies appear in the manga version, the series or film is labeled as 'Bromance'.

Maybe Wat's surprise kiss could have saved it but they're too tame to be even be called gay.