jpny01

I have no problem with Nuea. I'd certainly take him if he offered. My only point is that he's no angel either. I'm not saying he's disqualified for his don't-take-no-for-an-answer sin - and if I did, Mark would be even more disqualifed because Bar's "no" to him was much stronger and more definitive than Mark's was to Nuea. Just because Mark is an uke doesn't mean that his behavior in that regard is less serious, just like sexual harassment of a man by a woman is less bad than the other way around.

My point is that everyone in this is flawed and makes misakes like a normal human being. What I like is that they're consistent, in character, and we can identify with them. Mark and Nuea went too far - because they were in love and it's not so easy to control how you behave when you have intense feelings like that, and we all ignore what would normally be clear signs. like all of Mark's body language and evasion in the case of Nuea.

And remember that when Vee went back to Ploy, Mark had never given him a clear commitment or expressed his feelings - so Vee was faced with giving up a sure thing for a possibility. I just accepted my second choice for a job because I had an offer, whereas my clear first choice was still in progress, and while I thought I was a leading candidate, I had to take the sure thing.

So I'm not saying Vee is a better person than Nuea, or that Nuea is a bad person for not stopping when he should have - I'm saying I like this series because the characters are complicated with relatable or understandable flaws, and I don't agree with simplistic interpratations like "Ploy is evil" or "Vee is a douchebag." Mark makes more and bigger mistakes than anyone but Ploy - he definitely crossed the line with Bar, and talk about repeatedly putting himself in positions he shouldn't - he puts Vee to shame in that category.

If you like Dr. Sing, then you should definitely. He's not in it as much, and his character isn't dark like Dr. Sing, but the sexy is definitely there.

Yes - but the problem isn't that. The butterfly effect doesn't apply when you're going back to a previous timeline and starting over. If things you do on day 1 change how day 2 turns out, all that is erased and starts over when you go back to the beginning of day 1. That also applies to everything you wrote down - it would be gone when the time resets.

The problem I had with the the last loop is that Tin was given a totally different personality - and a rather negative one. It turns out he's largely responsible for what happened to Rit, which makes no sense given we've been hearing his entire inner monologue and that would have made him feel tortured. And that he didn't have a particularly negative reaction to his talk with Dr. Sak was totally at odds with his established character.

Also, so much dramatic tension had been built up (and very skillfully), that just to provide a shocking twist and shift to Tol's POV, all that deflated and the series just didn't have the same weight anymore, and we went back to the reliance on intense secondhand embarassment of the earlier episodes hat frankly isn't very pleasant to watch - it worked, but for me at least. not the second time - it got tiresome and static.

Everyone judges everyone partially by the outside - it's normal and OK. I didn't like the moralistic ending. It was too simplistic and a shallow examination of the subject. I know the total runtime was limited, but if you have only one theme, then explore it meaningfully. Tono is what, 15-16? I doubt his outlook is that simple, and if it is, he's very unusual and so there isn't much meaning to the story.

When you have a fantasy of a person and the reality is different, it's not something you can just discard immediately. It would have been nice to see Tono process Ithe situation and decide he can get past it instead of such an instant turnaround.

Our insecurities about ourselves have a major impact on us and our identities - getting past that isn't as simple as someone saying "I don't judge people by the outside and I like you." I still liked this, and it was a good effort, but I'm a little disappointed by the resolution. It wasn't a bad ending, but it was too easy.

I think most people will like it. I did, but I found the ending trite and simplistic.

That's sound policy. There is nothing fun about checkout. Or at least nothing more fun than watching mold grow on decaying vegetables.

Vice Versa has some positives, but it's hard for me to invest in any characters because no characters were established before the body exchange, so we basically have random guys doing random things, sometimes with their shirts off, which I appreciate, but I really don't know who Talay is as a person. He's just some generic pretty guy with a nice (OK, spectacular) body being tossed around by circumstances. Maybe this problem can be fixed, but it's not a positive sign when two episodes have failed to properly introduce the main character.

Who is saying anything doesn't count? The way you described what they should have done is what they did., isn't it? They decided they didn't work out and parted amicably. Vee cheated on his girlfriend, and it was wrong, and I don't think it's the case at all that Ploy is being portrayed as a selfish bitch and Vee an innocent romeo. She is weak because she has low self-esteem and craves validation, and Vee is weak because he can't establish boundaries because he doesn't want to hurt anyone and be the badguy, resulting in him hurting everyon. The whole point is that Vee is confused and conflicted. Everyone in this has behaved badly. That's what's great about it - the characters aren't 2D and don't fit into neat little boxes like "villain(ess)" or "hero" - they are realistic flawed people.

If you mean that a lot of the audience is treating it that way, I think you're right. But I don't think the show is. You'll notice how many people punched Vee in the face this episode - that's the show acknowleging his failings. He didn't actually do anything wrong this ep except not make boundaries clear to Ploy, which is a failure, but not a big one. But he took full responsibility for everything that's happened, because he knows Mark's perception of what happened and his subsequent overreaction and harshness are a result of Vee's past failings - he cheated on Ploy, and he got back together with Ploy after committing to Mark, so Mark has no trust in him. While it's what Ploy did this ep that set off the drama, he views it as his fault, not hers. So not only is the show acknowleging that Vee cheated on Ploy, Vee himself is acknowleging it and his ultimate responsibility for the entire fiasco.

To me that's good writing. Explicitly having someone say, "Hey! You cheated on Ploy! That's terrible and you're awful!" would be clear, but it would also be terrible writing. Good writing is having a protagonist with failings that have led to a lot of heartbreak who then comes to understand his flaws and failures and then overcomes those flaws and making amends. That's character development arc and a person overcoming internal obstacles. When a show just has two guys that never do anything wrong but the plot throws a lot of external obstacles that are finally overcome in the last 30 seconds of the series, that's lazy and fluffy formulaic writing. Sometimes we all like and need fluff, but that's not what this is - it's a serious and quality drama.

I'm not aware of a 3rd remake. The original production had three different stories of four episodes each. This is taking one of them and retelling it in more detail over 8 episodes. There is a director's cut, but that's just a version with a few extra scenes, usually ones that were censored or cut out for time. You are most likely watching the Director's cut - but to make sure, the eps should be around an hour long, usually a bit more. If it's 45 minutes, it's the shorter version.

Vee was also drunk - they pointedly showed him drinking a lot and even proved it with a pile of empty beer cans. But the point is that I never claimed Vee is perfect - nor is Mark or Nuea. But you are now condemning Vee as a repetitive failure for not aggressively pushing Ploy away, which is totally different than getting back together with her the last time, yet you've completely ignored that Mark told Nuea "no" and Nuea continued to pursue him. That is sexual harassment, and it's far worse than not being able to decide who to be with or cheating on your girlfriend. Mark is also pursuing or at least heavily leading on someone he knows is in a relationship, which is not much better than Vee's cheating, and it's a lot worse than Vee not pushing Ploy away.

As for blackout drunk, there is no consistency, logic, or realism to the portrayal of drunkenness which is why I hated Ep 1, because it was meaningless. None of Mark's behavior was blackout drunk. You can't both be blackout drunk and actively have sex with someone while thinking they're someone else, which isn't a thing. You can (and usually do) find people more attractive than you ever would while sober, and you can momentarily think someone is someone else, but you are not going to spend several hours with someone and still believe they're somone else unless they're identical twins. The writing was a big fail and was trying to have it every possible way. Mark was drunk, Vee was drunk, but it's implied he was less drunk despite getting drunk just prior to sex while Mark had had a couple of hours to sleep it off, and Mark initiated the sex - aggressivley, with enough strength to hold Vee on the bed, but then is supposedly blackout drunk. It was just a mess. Also, the legal standard is inebriated vs incapacitated. Mark was not with any possible definition incapacitated. You blur moral lines by having blurred moral lines, not by blurring reality to make the lines meaningless.

Consent and lack thereof don't need to be definitively stated. Mark's body language and the consistency with which he deflected Nuea were plenty of signaling for a grown man to pick up on, and that he forced Mark to definitively state it (and not just once, Nuea ignored a plainly stated "No, I like someone else" and stated "I'm still going to try") is not ideal. "Rapey" is deliberately softer and just means "creepily persistent". If I said "Nuea is a rapist" that would be over the line.

I get what you're saying in your second paragraph, but it's new love and that was their first opportunity to be each other's center of attention with no external distractions. You've probably been there - everything does feel intense - it's not like the comfortable familiarity of "old" love. (Which I'm not knocking. New love is stressful and awful. Old love is a continuous hug. That can get annoying. But you'd miss if if it were gone.) When it's all new everything is so raw and you're overthinking everything. "I like that shirt" sends you to "does that mean he doesn't like anything else I'm wearing?"

If you mean it's eye-rolling because you're past all that and young people are annoying, I feel you.

I agree - it was doing well until part 4. I have to differ with you on one point. Did you not see Sea shirtless? That was every bit as impressive as Jimmy shirtless.

You know who I feel sorry for? Tess. He's stuck in the other universe having sex with Jimmy's body, and when he gets back to his own world, he gets downgraded to Nanon. Puen will be fine. He's getting his hands on Sea's body now, and when he gets back, he gets to have Ohm.

The plot of this gives us nothing new. Engineering students, guy with girlfriend in love with a guy, etc.

But what this series does that raises it above all others of similar type is first of all, to cast extremely able actors for all the roles - they even replaced the supernaturally creepy and untalented original Gun. We're given stock characters, but they're not 2D, they're all fully realized and not caricatures and archetypes like we usually get. Ploy isn't viscious and evil. Mark doesn't nearly die whenever he attempts to descend stairs, and he doesn't need a REAL MAN to take care of him. He even managed to pick up shards of a broken mug without severing an artery and needing a seme to dab him with a snot-colored q-tip. Vee is confused and conflicted, and in the end undone by his inability do things that he needs to that will hurt people. Nuea is rapey, but for some reason a lot of people are OK with sexual harassment but prefer him because he's not confused, which would be much worse than not taking several "no"s as "no".

Anyway, all the characters are consistent and don't suddenly behave in ways totally contrary to their established nature just to support an arbitrary plot point. I guess everyone demands that Vee firmly push Ploy away and proclaim, "No Ploy! I have been redeemed by True Love (pat. pending) and you must move on!" Which would be totally contrary to his character and stupid.

Vee has trouble establishing boundaries that might hurt people. Mark is overly harsh as a defensive reflex, but it's counterproductive. Nuea can't take "no" for an answer but he's rich so he can avoid consequences for his sexual harassment and so he doesn't stop doing it. Ploy is weak and has low self-esteem, and this leads her to make poor decisions due to her craving for validation.

Vee didn't actually do anything wrong, other than not be firm with Ploy, and that's with well-meaning motives. Mark is actually in the wrong for his overreaction and refusal to discuss what happened, even though his reaction is totally understandable given previous events. However, Vee made the mistake that set all this off, and takes total responsibility for it and never tries to blame anyone else, not even Ploy. That makes him a good person. Ploy takes responsibility for what she did and takes action to try to fix things. That makes her a good person, although the girl needs serious counseling, because she's seriously damaged. But they've made mistakes so they are never to be forgiven.

Of course Mark failed to enforce boundaries with Nuea which led to misunderstandings and heartbreak, but for some reason that's OK, but when Vee does it it isn't. I think maybe BL has so infantilized ukes that some elements of the audience don't hold them responsible for their weaknesses, whereas semes are supposed to be princes and so when they fail they need to be canceled. Or maybe it's because Mark did it with a cute guy and Vee did it with an irritating girl, and this is BL.

I hated the first epside, but I've loved every one of them since, and this last was flawless.

You're right - he should sexually harass Mark like Nuea did so you'll like him better.

Wow.

You are IMO correct. It was clear he didn't want it - you usually don't share a passionate kiss by leaving your hands hanging by your side. I guess he should have shoved her hard and screamed "NO!!! I only love Mark, you vicious evil bitch!"

If there were 4,000 plotholes and repetitive behaviors, it would bother me. There weren't, so it doesn't. You seem to like Nuea, who sexually harassed Mark - repetitively. What Vee did the first time was completely different from what happened the second time - that isn't a repetition. The whole point was that Mark wasn't willing to listen because of how hurt h was the first time it happened and he made the incorrect (but totally reasonable) assumption that it had happened again. That's plot progression, not repetition, and it's consistent characterization, which is laudable.

I have to disagree. The audience knows exactly what's going to happen because this is a remake and we've seen the original - this is the same story a bit fleshed out.

I'm usually the first to go on a rampage when a series is full of tropes, and you're right, this has them, but far fewer than most, they aren't just thrown in to throw them in, and they are developed and resolved in a logical way that's consistent with the characters.

The whole point is that Vee is confused, insecure, and indecisive - he's a flawed character, like all of them. That's actually what differentiates this series from the run-of-the-mill. In a more formulaic BL, the villains are cartoonishly evil, the hero is a saint, and the uke is so useless and weak he can accidentally commit suicide trying to tie his shoes without the seme to "take care of him." Here the characters are 3D.

You're trying to force them into 2D. Ploy has no "fangs" - she isn't horrible, she's weak. She knew she'd done something wrong, and she took responsibility for it and took action to help fix the damage. Nuea is right, Vee shouldn't have put himself in that situation, but he's no better, in fact he's much worse - Mark made it completely clear he wasn't interested in him, but he kept pushing anyway - in a professional environment Nuea would have been fired for sexual harassment, and if Mark had complained, he would have been expelled. Vee should have been more firm with Ploy, but he doesn't like hurting people and isn't old enough to know that you're often hurting people more that way than just being up front. Because he's 20, not 40.

Mark is no saint - he was ruthless with Vee when he should have listened to him. Not that night - sometimes it's impossible to be open to reason, but after watching Vee stand in the rain for an entire day, and try that hard, he still refused to even talk about it. He knows Vee was HOSPITALIZED - his reaction is frankly self-absorbed, and his assumption of the worst ungenerous at best.

But all that is understandable because he story is logically written with characters who behave consitently with their established natures, and not just however they need to as the plot demands.

I'll give you an example of the opposite from a series everyone seems to worship. In 1,000 Stars, Nam (the doctor) totally violates all standards of medical ethics by giving absolutley confidential information on TWO patients to Phupha, which is something his character wouldn't do, and Phupha announces it to the entire village, which is something HE wouldn't do, and incidentally not checking his sanctimonious impulses knowing HE orchestrated lying to everyone to conceal Torfun's death, which nobody calls him on. Then Tian tells everyone "Torfun is dead and I'm responsible", and everyone turns away and leaves with no follow-up questions, which nobody anywhere would do. For example "When you say you're responsible, do you mean that you murdered her?" or simply "What do you mean by that? What happened to her and how are you responsible?" Instead they just leave a potential murderer milling about their village amongst their children. Then nothing is resolved, it's all hand-waved away in a fight where a cartoonishly evil villain's men shoot Phupha and everyone forgets everything and everyone lives happily ever after. Any personal issues to resolve? Pshaw! Just have a 2-year time jump.

How is that better in any way to what's happened here? The only difference is that Phupha is older than Vee and is aware of and comfortable with his sexuality, and Vee is still figuring it out - but BL audiences are merciless with confused characters. Let me tell you, it's traumatic and extremely difficult to accept same-sex feelings in yourself in a conservative society - I was 30 before I'd managed it, and lots of people suffrered along the way, like my poor girlfriends. But everyone wants simplistic stories with unearned fantasy happy endings and morally flawless characters.

You called Vee a douchebag - I'd like to hear your justification for that. What exactly has he done? Defended a woman against her abuser? Wow, what an asshole. Wanted to drive her home because he was afraid her abuser would be waiting for her there? Terrible. Not bitch-slapping her for trying to kiss him? How can we forgive him?

Well, it's not Vice Versa or Check Out. (The former is not bad, though. The latter is.)

I don't think anything really made sense about the last loop.