jpny01

I thought I was being generous giving it a 2. There must have been some glitch because the rating is back to 7.7, so now it's only 6 points above where it should be.

This is rated really low - what do people not like about it? The acting is way better than average and the writing is so realistic - plus everyone feels like real characters instead of being formulaic trope characters. I love that a grand gesture failed miserably - I'm always thinking "I would kill someone if they did that to me!" And I love that they gave Chris some depth this ep.

Wait, I'm confused. Do you mean the promo about the prom, or the prom promo?

Is it though? They really put all our boys through the ringer for the last couple of episodes - Paper and Chris had to really work for it!

I think you're right. Paper should just have taken out his magic handkerchief (all boys carry them) and dabbed Fah's forehead with it and he would have been good as new.

Good point. I have to rely on everyone here, I guess.

It isn't popular to portray in media - it's only in Asian BL.

In the case you mentioned, then why not say "I only know that I like him"? Why does it explicitly have to be "I'm not gay"? "I only know that I like him" is much moe romantic, first of all because it isn't homophobic or exlcusionary. but also "I'm not gay" suggests that as a straight guy, he may find the right woman at some point and go with that.

And isn't it enough that most gay men find this offensive? We don't really get why women don't like being objectified because we do like it - but we avoid it and join women in discouraring it as exploitative, because that's how women perceive it and we feel it's important to respect and defend that.

Women can understand very well what anti-gay discrimination is like, because it's very similar to misogyny and the discrimination women face every day. But what is harder to understand is the level of denial gays are subjected to and the enormous explicit and implicit pressure to conform to heterormative standards, and what a colossal and painful struggle it is to overcome that programming to understand who you really are.

So when someone says "I'm not gay", it's another denial of our existence. And it's also ridiculous. They're going to have anal sex. If someone is inserting their twinkie between your twerkies, you're a little bit gay.

I don't understand - why is it "just wrong"? It's complex and interesting to me. I find Li Cheng & Mu Ren's storyline to be completely predictable, and although the actors are really good, there's no drama in the story because I know exactly how it will go.

It might not be homophobia for you or Sandee, but the trope was created out of homophobia.

Anyone LGBTQ+ has thought about it a lot, believe me.

Being gay is a thing. Gay men have biological differences from straight men including different brain structures. I do agree that being uncertain when you're young is also a thing, but that's largely because heteronormativity is impressed so overwhelmingly on us for our entire lives that it takes time to understand that that's not who we are.

In the case of this show, we're dealing with two men who are nearly 30. Do you think it's likely neither have ever had or ever will have a crush on another man than each other? For a high school kid, sure. Here it's just a formulaic trope rooted in homophobia.

I agree - taking it to an extreme isn't productive either. Some amount of fanservice is fine. Even large amounts of it. Let me try to put it another way:

If you're going to "exploit" gay men in BL, then don't deny their existence at the same time. If you want to have two boys take a 15-minute erotic shower together, I'm fine with it. But not if they follow up by saying "I would never take an erotic shower with anyone but (fill in name) because I'm not gay." Why is a comment even necessary? Just don't say anything at all.

The straight male equivalent, and scifi has until recently been crammed with this, is giant-breasted space lesbians, which manages to be explotative, homophobic, and misogynist all at once. That's not really acceptable anymore, and nobody's saying "SciFi is for boys, so deal with it."

Y-Destiny is bad to me because the writing is bad and the characters aren't consistent and their behavior makes no sense, not because it's fanservice (although part of why the writing is bad is because there's nothing BUT fanserivce). In neither story did anyone address sexuality - it was what it was. I'm fine with that.

Ditto. I think it's harder to understand today what it used to be like - there are still conservative societies, but there is also the internet, and everyone has access to positive and affirming imagery. When I was a kid, there was only Steven on Dynasty, and even he was only gay part-time.

There is no need for "I'm not gay, I only like_______". If the writer doen't want to specify the character's sexuality, then fine. Just don't say anything at all. It has exactly the same effect without being homophobic.


"I'm not gay..." is so stupid and cliche it reminds me of a comedy sketch from 20 years ago where two guys are watching a football game and get so excited after a touchdown that they spontaneously start making out and try to talk around it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuKy6aQvcrs&t=2s

Same - I can't think of anything you've ever said that I've ever found anything but interesting and perceptive, even if I disagree sometimes. There have been a couple of times when you've changed my mind.

I think that argument doesn't work at all (fantasy vs reality). Even fantasy with dragons and unicorns needs to have human characters that behave like humans, even if it's in the context of a world that has magic, or lasers, or whatever. It's always character-driven drama that's what moves people.

Westerns used to be one of the most popular genres - but it ended up a big bag of tired tropes and was racist as f#$%, and the genre died.

So is that what people want for BL? Use the same small bag of tricks that were used in manga 40 years ago, especially the ones rooted in homophobia? Why not just give up the homophobic ones and occassionally come up with something new?

What's a trope we all hate? The toxic female character, right? Why? Because it's tired, and it's blatantly misogynist. So do we keep it because "That's what BL is"? Or do we move on? Likewise, why is it necessary for BL to be about romance between straight guys? Does it detract from the experience at all if it's gay guys, or some other flavor of LGBTQ+, or guys who don't know who they are yet? If it makes no difference, then why not stop having it be what many people perceive as homophobic?

You are relentlessly rude and hostile. A spoiler is giving away a plot point because you've seen something and other people haven't. As what was being discussed was not mentioned in an open post, your point makes no sense. I think it's best if we just block each other as I really prefer to talk to people who can be nice.

That's true. I guess we'll have to see.

Thanks! I was afraid it was too dated a reference for anyone to get.

It's not a spoiler - I'm speculating and have no knowledge of what will happen.

I have no idea what's going on. But I like it. Kim is so adorable, but they need to give him something to do.