jpny01

The acting is natural, and the dialog was better this ep. This is non-linear, so it may get confusing. There was a lie one of the characters told this ep that doesn't seem compatible with the previous ep, but we'll see.

The production is nothing special, but better than average for an amateur production. I'm enjoying it so far.

He just plays a rich guy in BLs.

I made it to just under 3 minutes in. "We fall in love because of the person, not because of their gender". I can already tell this will be full of sanctimonious bullshit by that line.

Love Knows No Gender means that all love is valid and equal, regardless of what gender you love, not that gender doesn't matter to any given indivual in who they love.

Beyond that, how many cliches can you stuff into one monologue?

I swear, there's really only one BL writer, and they're holding her at gunpoint somewhere forcing her to write the same thing over and over. I think we should rescue her and she can start giving us some variety.

I don't get the shipping of the actors - that seems so creepy and intrusive. Plus, I want to see actors I like paired with different people, not the same one over and over forever.

I know - it's not fair! They should get their own series.

I wanted that to be the ending, but I thought it would have a conventional one with the main character running off with the less awful brother after an OTT struggle with the others. When it was revealed he was the nun's son I had a little hope, and they never explained how he fell off the roof without any harm, but I thought there was something supernatural about him that he was unaware of.

I agree - I find these discussions interesting and rewarding.

I tried to qualify the first sentence you quote by saying "some" but then I spoiled it by putting in "always", so I concede that. :)

While I get your point, I don't think its really the case that there are tons of gay dramas out there. There were initially some Filipino series that had a greater LGBTQ+ sensibility than Thai BLs, but they've mostly fallen away in favor of (generally inferior) copies of the Thai model. Or they're so sanctimonious that they're useless as entertainment.

Are there any Asian gay dramas at all out right now? I can't think of any. I don't think it would be hard to reconcile BL with gay expectations, in a way that would probably be a superior experience for women as well. If I were to suggest 3 rules:

- No toxic females. Unless it's funny and doesn't chew up the entire run time.
- The boys should touch. A non-bro hug is fine. Cuddled on a couch watching TV is fine. Sex is not necessary. Kissing isn't even necessary. Alternatively, there can be an explicit declaration of romantic puruit, which is an acceptable substitute.
- The line "I'm not gay, I only love________" is banned.

It's just the things that reject gay that are the issue - lines like "I'm not gay..." are offensive and unnecessary (unless they really are gay and are still in denial - that's fine). That's different than just not mentioning it at all, which is fine, i.e. not distinguishing sexuality is not the same as rejecting it.

I get it. I'm really just commenting on the writing - I'm saying they made PI too hostile to Mork for too little motivation, to the point that it's not really credible that Mork would be interested in him, or if he is, there's something wrong with him.

It would have been better to offer more motivation, like Mork doing something that seemed like he was overtly pursuing Mix - there isn't anything to substantiate the misunderstanding, as they're very clearly just normal friends, so Pi comes off too negatively. They could even have used the BL staple of Mork wiping the corner of Mix's mouth with a napkin in slo-mo.

One of the most frequent failings of BL is the implausibility of miscommunication - it's so heavily relied on that it's getting as tiresome as accidental kisses.

It's not a super-important point, and it's not like the show is ruined - it just made it harder to invest in Pi - my interest in the story is for Mork (and of course Neo). I'm sure I'll love Pi eventually too. I think Phuwin is doing a great job.

You weren't hurtful, just not on the same wavelength. But note that the distinction made in this drama between BL and gay drama was a negative commentary on BL, which was portrayed as exploitative, not positive.

But don't men face the same indocrination?

And doesn't BL accomplish the same thing you describe when it's boys who haven't come to terms with their sexuality yet? So why not do it that way and be more true to life?

The other thing that happens constantly is that a girl gets in the way, and a man gets insanely jealous because his bf has a conversation with a woman - that implicitly places a higher value on heterosexual relations, as if he'll go back to being straight if a suitable candidate presents itself.

It's hard to even describe how disturbing that feels - I'm sure you know quite well from seeing the same thing happen in f/f stories.

Re: final point, that's why many women love gay bars so much. But it's also how gay bars end. Canny straight men realize it's the best place to pick up women and eventually it loses its gay character. That's an interesting metaphor for BL.

I'd only correct your statement about lesbian storylines to say there are plenty of lesbian storylines, but they're only there for straight men to enjoy. There are a whole lot of lesbian scifi characters, and virtually zero gay characters.

If you like sci fi and you're a gay male, you're SOL if you want representation. You're also SOL if you're a lesbian wanting REAL representation outside of a straight male's fantasy depiction.

But that's exactly what BL is doing, too.

I love Cheat so much. I did not see the ending coming at all, even thought I remember thinking "wouldn't it be funny if..." so when that really turned out to be the case, I think I was jumping up and down screaming.

This is really good.

It's not that anyone is advocating for BL characters to be having crazed sex all the time - the issue is that in many cases there's no outward sign at all that the characters are actually physically attracted to each other, and it's really just a bromance. In many cases the uke (and that trope is a entire topic in itself) appears to find the seme phyiscally repellent and is endlessly shoving him away even in private.

In Hello Stranger, there was a hug and that's it - that was fine, though, because the intensity of their love was way beyond what could pass as bromantic. In other shows, the relationship could just as easily pass for very close friendship.

So I think what comes off as fetishization is two men falling in love and NOT having physical intimacy (and that doesn't necessarily mean sex).

I think I can help here. A lot of gay men are a bit put off by the way some BL fans are always proclaiming "See? You don't need to have smut to have a good BL!" or if someone mentions it would have been nice if there had been some physical sign the boys were actually attracted to each other, you often get something along the lines of "Then don't watch and go back to TharnType if you want porn!"

That's slightly exaggerated for the sake of drama, but you've all seen posts like that.

Sex is part of sexuality, and if you've had to struggle to be accepted, it's disappointing or even upsetting to see people rejecting any outward indicators of that sexualty. Many BLs (almost all, until recently) are actually about straight guys that make one single exception for one single guy.

So when people want stories that strip characters of their sexuality and leave only cute boys that are cute to each other, that is fetishization - it's reducing them to objects exploited for titillation, even if it's desexualized. It's no less dehumanizing than porn, and it's also implicitly taking a position that gay sex is dirty.

You've explained your position to me in a way that makes sense, but it can come off as exclusionary, like "BL is ours, you have your own gay stuff to watch". Which actually isn't true. There's a huge amount of gay porn, but very little gay romance, and it is a bit of a zero-sum game. If you can make a bromance that's less likely to offend conservative audiences and make money off it, then why make something more explicitly gay? BL actively reduces the amount of gay romance there is, so like it or not, it's ours too.

There was a time when there was more gay representation on cinema - but it's completely disappeared due to a desire for access to Chinese markets - that's why there are no gay action heroes and there will never be a gay Star Wars character. Except C3PO.

Also, there are times when we're made to feel like there's something patriarcal or oppressive about having a fixed sexuality - but being 100% gay is a thing. We actually have biological differences from straight men, some superficial (hair whorls in opposite direction, index finger longer than ring finger) to not superficial (stonger sense of smell, differences in brain structure). So the idea that sexuality is fluid is just another means of denying our existence (fluidity is a sexuality in itself, not a lack of it).

What happens if the edits are incompatible? They'll probably reject them all. Excellent! That means I can sabotage you all! [cue evil-sounding organ music]

I see what you mean. They should allow that pull-down to be left blank.

I'm guessing a lot of people don't like the pacing, and especially don't want to be shown that the couples they love are played by actors that aren't actually dating in real life and may not like their jobs.

You can edit the MDL entries - you have to change it and give an explanation. I got the incorrect number of episodes for Brothers corrected.

I didn't think of that - I believe you're right. That actually makes good sense as a rule of watching BL - "If it makes no sense, it's probably a product placement."

I think that's about right - but shouldn't you be proud of a highly admired brother rather than it making you resentful? I didn't exactly have a happy childhood, and I'm capable of jealousy like everyone else, but I've never let it cause me to be rude to anyone. Again, I get why things are the way they are in the story, but I think they went a little overboard. They left room for character development, but Mork being in love with him needs to be believable.

Have you ever been out with someone who was rude to a waiter? That pretty much kills any desire I have to associate with them. I think Mork seems to understand why Pi thinks he set him up with the photos, but Pi hating him because he's friends with his crush is strange and self-absorbed. They need to show us positive qualities of Pi pretty soon, because so far, all he's got going for him, ironically, is that he's good-looking.