jpny01

Ep 6 or Ep 7? I just watched Ep 6 and it wasn't bland, so I assume you mean 7.

I agree - but I would also say that people open themselves up to criticism when they just hate on a series without giving any detail, or make a general criticism like "this isn't a BL". It's true, it isn't a BL, and if it was marketed as one, then I'm not surprised at any hostility.

But BLs have certain defining characteristics, of which fluffiness is one of the most prominent, so a statement like "this isn't a BL" suggests fluffiness is what the commenter wants. I don't know why anyone who wants NC scenes would watch BL, which is beyond Victorian in it's desexualization of its characters.

That's not to say there's anything wrong with fluffiness - but if it is what someone wants, then I'd have to ask why on earth they would subject themself to 9 episodes of this series. It's literally about a guy with a serious personality disorder erasing people from existence and then crying about it for two episodes. Schindler's List was fluffier than this.

I largely agree with your last point, although I think there is a category "BL" that has specific characteristics: Reliance on tropes (e.g. tripping and being caught), strict separation into seme and uke, which are more or less written as different genders, externally-driven drama (e.g. evil exes getting in the way, not internal hurdles to overcome), a tendency for all or most characters to be rich, and some element of fantasy (like almost the entire student body being gay or homophobia being non-existent).

"BL" as you mentined is used too broadly - for example this is not at all a BL, it's an allegorical drama that just happens to have gay characters, so I'm not sure it's even LGBT as that is irrelevant to the nature of the story - there is nothing about Sunshine being gay that has any impact on anything. I suppose it has a strong LGBT sensibility, like I'm pretty sure the opening scene with Atom almost naked in the devil outfit came out of a gay male imagination. It will certainly live on in mine.

Anyway, i think where there may be some relevance to whether or not it's a BL (or if BL is a real category) is if it was marketed as one and gave people an expectation that it would be and thus has disappointed them. I would be very happy if the characteristics I listed above went away and we could categorize them as you prefer.

Well, Episode 9 was an improvement - but a about 4 episodes too late.

This being too long isn't an isolated case - just about all Thai series are too long. In this case, the deeper meaning and serious nature of the themes is probably a handicap, because with a "standard" formula BL, there are lots of things to superficilaly appreciate, if nothing more than the often-criticized cuteness and fluffiness, which is at least, well, cute and fluffy. You might not remember a cute bunny rabbit a month after seeing it, but it's still pleasant to watch a cute bunny rabbit while you're watching it, You would probably remember if for a long time if you were trapped in a room for an hour with a dead bunny rabbit that someone had stomped on, but you aren't likely to enjoy that hour.

In this show, you have to figure things out, which is unforunately a bit easy because it's beating us over the head with everything, and then you're left with a very, very long slog to get to what you knew was going to happen in the first 5 minutes - I'm sure a large majority understood who Sunshine would erase from almost the first scene. Just in case you didn't get it, they ate at a restaurant named "End of the Road" (which means 'death' - it would have been much better, if equally sledgehammery, to name it Final Curtain).

I'm not sure I understand criticisms of Atom's acting, which has been stellar the whole series, other than that one 45-minute crying scene, which I would argue started out very well, but then lasted so long that it became fake not because of the acting, but because of the context, i.e. no adult does that, so it seemed inauthentic. I even considered whether or not it was intentional to make him seem childish, but I don't think that was the case, it was just bad directing and editing.

Jet, on the other hand, might be a great actor - but I have no idea because he's worn just one facial expression for the entire series thus far. Whether or not that's him or what he's directed to do, who knows? Given the director's tendency to drag everything out endlessly, I'd lean in that direction.

I think this series could easily have been a "9" if it had a good editor to pull the story out of all the footage - but it feels a little like whoever did edit it couldn't bear to part with anything and so included it all.

Well, it's allegorical, for better or worse, and I don't think it's about love so much as making the best out of the one life you have. Sunshine doesn't really have a choice - once he's on the path he has to erase people, although they might have taken up a moment out of the incredibly excessive runtime to explain what the consequences of NOT choosing would be. I also don't think it's about loss, except insofar as a theme seems to be that second-guessing past choices is futile.

I agree that the lack of permanent consequences does cause some problems with the story, but Sunshine himself is a real person in a real world (inside the story), and he really has made the moral choice to erase people, so unless he's a psychopath he must suffer emotional trauma from having done this, even if it can be undone - and he also knows that to undo it could lead to even worse outcomes, although I don't think the story has done a good job of underscoring this.

My biggest problem with the story is that at times it's so "on the nose" that it comes off as a little silly. Like in Ep 9 they go to a restaurant named "The End of the Road", which nobody in their right mind would name a restaurant, since The End of the Road is death. Or taking an obviously personal political stance like erasing a liberal politician leads to a world of conformity. Wouldn't it have been more thought-provoking to erase the conservative, leading to a Stalinist world of conformity? That would have underscored the importance of diversity of beliefs rather than making it ESTABLISHMENT BAD, which isn't very deep. That was self-indulgent.

I've seen complaints about technical aspects and the acting - I don't see much of that, except Jet only has one facial expression, which I suppose is actually a pretty big problem, but Atom has been fantastic except for a crying scene, which was acutally pretty good at first, but then like everything else was stretched out so long that it become ridiculous and contextually fake - on which note:

The editing is not good. There are weird transitions and no real sense for pacing a scene. A better editor could have pulled a "9" out of the material - I think people often underestimate how critically important good editing is. I think people can more easily envision it's importance in writing, because we all write - but it's equally important in a visual medium - probably even more important.

Just taking out the politician and friend erasures would have made this a much better story - no reason it can't be "5 Days to Valentine".

Ep 9 was good - or would have been as Ep 5. As Ep 9 it's too late.

But it's fair to comment on it when people criticize it for not having sweet and fluffy romance - it's a little like criticizing Schindler's List for not having enough comedic moments. If you wanted cute and fluffy, what in God's name are you doing watching this all the way to Ep 9?

I kind of agree with your assesment, except I would replace Jet with Atom as the actor I appreciate. If this had been half the length, it would have been a 9. But there is too much self-indulgence that mars the themes of the story, like the political thing, and erasing the friend was just plain evil and also submerged the deeper meanings in a pointless act of unmotivated malice.

So I'd get rid of the politician and friend erasures - that would make the story more directed and not make Sunshine cross into being difficult to find sympathetic in any way. Being a rash young man I think we can get past, especially given the awful way Rain dumped him, but calculated cruelty is different.

Anyway, I appreciate that this is trying something different. The accusation of pretention I can kind of get, because this is an Asian drama that's leaning heavily on Western mythology which might not be the best fit and does come off a little too... maybe bad French theater? But I vastly prefer that to the standard BL formula, which apparently the majority of the audience does not want any story to stray from. I get it - if this was marketed as a BL, then people watching it will have some issues. I didn't see it marketed that way, so maybe that colors my impression.

And I love seeing Atom's hot body exposed all the time - it's just one aspect of my enjoyment, but there can be more than one thing to like. In this case, the slowness of the story made staring at him more important than it would have been otherwise to hold my attention - but people criticising anyone for this are being hypocritical - nobody would watch BL if it were full of unattractive actors. Some people like faces or personalities, Others like abs and muscles - and most like the overall package which has elements of all of these. I find it strange that most people find being tall an absolute prerequisite to being considered attractive - and my liking an athletic physique is no more or less shallow. And there are lots of superficial elements to attraction - we just try to justify our own as more meaningful.

In short, everyone sees everything differently and maybe people that have visceral negative reactions to other people's opinions need to examine their own more closely.

I often am astonished at the majority opinion, and I'll ask the forum why, but I don't think the majority opinion is necessarily wrong. It does seem like most people don't "get it" in this case, but maybe they just don't want to "get it" and were looking for a easy-to-watch romance. There's nothing wrong with that, especially if they were led to believe it was something it's not. The person I'm closest to on this forum almost never sees things the way I do, and even when I truly care about someone's opinion, it still doesn't make me upset that he's so totally wrong all the time. (That was a joke.)

I do find it off that 90% of the audience are hate-watching this - I've hate watched series before, but usually because they're so bad it's entertaining, like Unforgotten Night. People seem to viscerally hate this and yet stick with it.

Can someone explain to me how anything whatsoever is Night's fault? What he did was annoying, but Day prioritized not getting his car messy over basic driving safety and nearly killed himself and his brother through his stupidity. If it were portrayed as displaced anger, sure, that could happen, but the series seems to take it for granted that Night did something wrong and he didn't.

I personally think this series is slow and boring with some beautiful moments in it, but it really takes me out of the story how awful Night is treated. I had a hard time paying attention to Ep 9 because it was so unfair to him. I understand later on Day will prioritize Mhok's well-being and development, but so far he's been self-absorbed and gaslighting, and hasn't once asked Mhok how he's feeling about anything at all - he just takes him for granted.

Those are major points, but I do really like how, other than romantically, they interact as men, teasing and pranking each other. Also, Jimmy's acting in the last scene of Ep 9 was really excellent.

OK, but it's not a decision on what to wear, it's a huge plot point. People are going to have different opinions and feelings and it's not right to tell someone to stop feeling how they feel.

Yes, those were very (unintentionally) funny. And I agree with you about the younger brother. Lomfon had his moments, but Little Bro was more consistent.

He definitely comes to a lot of realizations this episode, and he also spends a lot of it in just boxers, so you might find it worthwhile. This is the episode that should have been #4, not #8, but at least we're finally moving along.

I think the overarching problem with this series is that it's too long. I get that a different lesson is learned with each erasure - but there are a few too many. Erasing the Other Man was needed. Erasing the previous ex also added something, and the latest erasure was the real breakthrough for Sunshine.

But the political one was self-indulgent and way too heavy-handed, and felt like a juvenile swipe at The Establishment. It would have fit the themes of the series much better if he'd erased the conservative and ended up with an equally bleak and oppressive society. His erasure of the friend didn't really make sense and just pushed Sunshine over the line into evil, and obscured and even reversed his journey, and I think that was a mistake.

Atom was really amazing in Ep 7 on the stage, but because he'd been crying non-stop for the entire episode, that scene had less impact than it could and should have.

This last episode was a bit of a relief because Sunshine has come to a lot of realizations and finally seems to understand his predicament - but that was really only about 4 episodes of content, not 8. Being over-long isn't limited to this series, of course - that's the case for 99% of Thai series. At least this one has Atom scantily-clad for a large portion of its runtime.

100% agree. The reason is the BL audience doesn't want something new or something that they have to think about - they want the formula they understand. Who is the top and who is the bottom? Who is even the romantic pairing? These aren't important in this series and I'm fairly sure the former question will not be addressed.

To be fair, Crazy Handsome Rich does have a lower rating than this, so it's possible to have at least some faith in humanity. Poor Lee Long Shi - so much hotness wasted on so many bad series. Hopefully he'll have his day.

That's a fairly strong motivator, I must say.

The mother wasn't loud to be artsy, she was loud and dramatic because of her narcissism, which was a critical trait to understand both Wang and In, as well as Wang's father.

I do think this series is too long - Atom is really good, but the same elevated emotion for so long loses it's impact. Even with that his scene on the stage was stunning, but imagine how much more impact it would have had if he hadn't been crying for two episodes.

I don't think anything in this is ambiguous - the themes are quite clear. I think the problem is that there are themes thrown in that are self-indulgent, like the politics. That might have worked if Sunshine had erased the conservative and it led to a Stalinist far-left world, as it would have fit in better thematically, i.e. everything needs to be in balance. By indulging his own political views like that, we got beat over the head with ESTABLISHMENT BAD, which is tiresome and simplistic.

That's not to say I'm not missing something, because maybe I am - so what is it that you find amniguous?

Did you not see the latest episode?

I think you may be misremembering some aspects of 180 Degree - do you recall the mother? That was way, way more OTT than anything Sunshine does.

I'm sure you're not the only one, but I don't see it that way at all. You and I are watching a fictional series and we aren't in love with Rain and we know that these are not real people.

But Sunshine within the drama is a real person and he just erased a real person from existence and that act killed a real human being that he loved. If he didn't feel that gutted then he'd have to have some sort of disassociative disorder.

I actually love this. It's so refreshing to have a change from the BL formula. Not that I don't like the BL formula, but it can get a little stale at times. I like stories with layers of meaning and visual symbolism & metaphor. This can be a little heavy-handed with its symbolism, and strays a bit into pretention at times, but still, it's my favorite series airing at the moment. Although there are a few I haven't gotten to yet.

Why the random Benz hit? I totally agree, but what made you think of that?

Did anyone say it was a BL? It's a parable based on Faust that has characters that happen to be gay. Nobody is owed a formulaic BL, and there are PLENTY of them to watch.

Why would you be happy the ratings are going down? That's really odd - if you really hate the show that much, it feels like you're punishing yourself. I don't care how bad a series is - I get no satisfaction seeing it decline in ratings.