monstersnroses

i coulda sworn when i first got here it was like 6k-somethin. That was like 3-4 days ago idk.

what was comment count like 3 days ago?

Who else is on your "i just have a gut feeling" radar? If you don't want to be publicly naming people, I'd love a DM, I'm so curious. I think I believe you are scary accurate, and am totally curious now.

I will totally admit to having a long-standing irrational gut-instinct red-flag vibe about Park Seo Joon. Willing to be dead-ass wrong on that one, but if it turns out he's a creepster, I will be like "I knew it!"

I never expect to actually find rational debate on MDL, but amongst the sea of reactionary comments, I find a few of you. I appreciate different POV's when they are well reasoned and thought out, and take the circumstantial evidence into account, instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

Thank you to the cooler heads in here bringing facts, resources, personal experiences, well-reasoned conjecture and deduction.... and basically creating meaningful discussion and debate. It gives me some faith in this site.

I mean, there is also screeching and irrationality to be sure, but not as much as I expected.

Also, thank you to mods who are allowing a healthy back and forth while removing the obviously deranged accounts.

Yes, that's the clearest you've made yourself so far, and I find that the minor disagreements I have with your statement would just be nitpicking, because on the major points I am in agreement with you on. You rest your case, and I peacefully concede. In the end, we are fighting the same battle, which is advocacy for victims of an *industry* and a failed *justice system*, and not just one victim of one actor.

<3

Then how about a more direct phrasology: As it stands right now, with the collective sum total of what we know so far, not from a legal standpoint but from your own standpoint of common sense, what do you think KSH is guilty of, and what do you think he's not guilty of, just you personally.

So he'll talk to his fans, but won't address the family, stay classy KSH, smdh omg.

No but in all seriousness that shit is usually a larper. I guess we'll find out soon anyways, with how much scrutiny he's getting rn.

Yess!!!

The fact is that hebephi1ia is a subcategory of p3dophilia. And hebephiles would like you to think that's not the case, because they feel like they shouldn't be stigmatized to the same extent. But they're wrong on that. Prepubescent girls are still children, and pro-h3bephilic attitudes are morally repulsive to the general civilized population of the world.

So you believe EVERY male is unsafe? That actually ISN'T reasonable. It's hypervigilant, which is fine, that's your prerogative. But it isn't normal or reasonable, that's an attitude you carry from your personal scars. You're skirting the issue that he is of *particularly* untrustable character as is shown by the receipts we have thus far. He is HIGHLY problematic on multiple levels.

> What idiotic logic is this?

Now THAT is an ad hominem.

I do indeed. And no it was not. Your motivations as to why *you* would think about this case the way you do, is *relevant* to your arguments. It would be an ad hominem if I said "your brain is fried oatmeal therefore you are stupid and wrong." Because that is not relevant, and in no way could be construed as a rational or relevant argument.

We are not a court of law! We are consumers who hold the power of cultural relevance and cashflow. We are the market they are peddling their KSH wares to. We do not have the same criteria and standards as a court of law, and sometimes that's a good thing. OJ was never convicted in a court of law for murdering Nicole Simpson, but we ALL KNOW he did it, and now he's a pariah. Why? Because we didn't have the same threshhold for guilt as a court of law.

And no, this is not just about ped0philia, it's about grooming. You are lumping them together, but the proof of grooming IS there, as he CLEARLY was working on "courting" her, and had mentally sexualized her BEFORE she turned 16. There is also the extortion aspect of this, which also has sufficient receipts at this point, and you discredit that as valid as well. But it is all part of the same picture of what actually happened, and you don't need a court of law to put the pieces together, if you just use your own common sense, which you seem to refuse to accept as a valid method of deducing truth, whereas we do not.

At this point you're just trolling, because everything you've said has been addressed adequately in my other posts, so you are attempting to turn this into a circular conversation, which I'm not gonna do with you. I'm trying to watch The Best Thing, cook dinner, and garden. I'll say what I have to say, argue what needs to be argued, but I'm not gonna repeat myself for the slow people in the back who aren't arguing anything in good faith.

Your posts betray the fact that you have been systematically rejecting each singular piece of evidence as circumstantial. But all that mountain of circumstantial evidence paints a very clear picture which you refuse - or pretend to refuse - to see. Which means you are deliberately NOT exercising your common sense. And that's fine, if you want to be the court of law in your own mind. But that's not a reasonable ask for you to expect other people to reject all this circumstantial evidence that paints a consistent and whole picture of what went on.

I'm sorry to be this way with you, but we are done. Because I honestly no longer believe you ARE arguing in good faith. I don't feel I need to block you, but I'm not engaging with you any longer on this, I feel it's a waste of my finite time on earth.

Same. This is not easy work. Best wishes and peace to you.

I'm not one of those people saying shit like "i hope he dies" or "If you support this guy you deserve to be in hell" or whatever. For me, it's never personal, and this should stay within the realm of rational discourse and not devolve. I don't mind disagreements with other people who are at least rational about their POV. But everybody's really upset, and there's not a lot you can do to calm them down right now. It is what it is.

I think this is a natural visceral reaction on an international level, to what is basically Korean hebephilic acceptance culture. It used to be worse, but their collective attitudes are still not up to international levels of decency. That has to change if they want to stay relevant as a cultural mecca for entertainment.

I believe we can minimize harm TO VICTIMS and future victims, by ostracizing the sh*t out of this guy to send a message to SKorean justice system, entertainment industry, and SKorean hebephilic culture, that this kind of shit - regardless of whether the SKorean justice system punishes him - is NOT COOL AT ALL.

If you gloss this over, you harm the victims and future victims. If you make a big stink about it and ostracize the behaviors involved - namely extortion, power imbalance abusive relationships, and sexualizing young girls - you harm the perpetrators. Either way, someone is going to be harmed. This is about prioritizing who is more important when interests clash. For me, it's the victim.

I'm NOT looking to minimize "human harm". I'm looking to minimize victimization of those who have no power to defend themselves.

yeah real head-scratcher there... :P

What makes you say "of course no one would let them bbysit their daughter". Isn't that because you know - using common sense - that he might view her as a sexual entity, because that's within his purview?

Also, you say of course no one would, and yet some people in this comments section can't bring themselves to answer that question.

Any sane person would, yknow. Should not be a difficult question.