soTreeD

If that is the case, why do we see evidence of the bugs creating backlash and hurting Xiangliu who have to suppress them with spirit power? If the bugs are so happy, why is Xiangliu in pain? My theory is Xiangliu is always the one suffering from the backlash because his bugs don't get love from Xiaoyao and he closes his connection from her to spare her from the pain.
Xiaoyao has mentioned that 'heartache cannot be faked' unlike physical pain which can be created. So, where did the pain come from when Xiangliu 'opened his connection' later when he threatened her? If all was lovey dovey between them, where is this intense pain from?

In the novel, it has only been emphasized that females rear them and plant them into their willing lovers. That is based on the assumption that the men will love them enough to commit to sharing life and death with them. Nowhere in the drama or novel did it ever claim that both of them have to love the other. Naturally this was to be expected since if a woman was ready to live and die with the other, the premise would be she would already be in love with said willing man.

At the point of planting the bugs, you really cannot convince me that Wen Xiaoliu loves Xiangliu. Even Xiangliu's affection at that point of time, could hardly be considered deep love. Xiaoyao herself does not really understand what true love means, until late in season 2, when she finally sought to take destiny into her own hands and fight for her own happiness instead of always passively waiting.

The couple bug as far as I am concerned, was Xiangliu's way to cheat his way into Xiaoyao's heart. He formed a connection she did not expect and more than once in the novel, Xiaoyao felt her privacy being invaded - it was described as she felt 'naked' before Xiangliu since she can't even lie to him like she lies to Cangxuan.
Even though she did get some comfort that someone was suffering along with her during her heartbreak over Tushan Jing, this unasked for connection which was not revealed to her beforehand, was not something Xiaoyao may have consented to if she had known.

Xiaoyao thought it was a normal poisonous bug that will only transfer pain to the other, while he was the one who really knew what they were.
Xiangliu never gave her a choice to choose to let him into her heart.
He literally tricked his way in.

But reading through alot of what you guys have been writing, aren't you also doing the same thing? I never said Xiaoyao never liked him. If she never liked him she wouldn't have done alot of things for him.
Xiaoyao has feelings for Xiangliu but its platonic. And the most vulnerable times when she could have chosen him was during her breakup period with TSJ. But that would make Xiangliu a rebound guy, and he wasn't going for that anyway.

For those who claimed to have read the leaked script, you should have seen that definitive term for Xiangliu in the back already.

You can support your theories and I will support mine.
Or are only the louder group get to have their voices heard here in MDL?

I said that was my view and after so many people started to impose their 'unchangeable' views to me, I still don't feel convinced to change what I thought. I don't think that is a crime now?

At least in weibo some of the Xiangliu fans actually provided me a better insight than most of the aggressive and passive aggressive replies from here... dismissing my views and mocking me just because I am a 'Jing fan'.

I said that was my view and after so many people started to impose their 'unchangeable' views to me, I still don't feel convinced to change what I thought. I don't think that is a crime now?

At least in weibo some of the Xiangliu fans actually provided me a better insight than most of the aggressive and passive aggressive replies from here... dismissing my views and mocking me just because I am a 'Jing fan'.

I am not in denial about anything. I am a yaojing fan so what? Does it mean I cannot talk about other topics in this drama?

I have no such delusions at all hahahah
All I was asking was Hong Jiang's war pointless... but I guess all of you are like Xiangliu and love his foster dad so much too.
How nice.

Is discussing Hong jiang's war a taboo subject because you are not confident about your Xiangliu's 'goodness'?
So in MDL we are only allowed to discuss about who loves who?

Wow, some people cannot understand what is a discussion.

Thank you and I appreciate the many Xiangliu fans who have been replying to my posts but since most of your viewpoints are the same, and there are many of you and only one of me, pls forgive me for not replying to your responses individually.. what is obvious to you, is obviously not obvious to me, or rather different things are obvious to each of us lol
What is obvious is we can't change each others' minds but I appreciate the interaction!

We are all here to enjoy this story, and some comments which try to boost Xiangliu into being some perfect 'selfless' saint and push down Xiaoyao or Tushan Jing makes me uncomfortable but I would not argue with you, since you seem very much settled into your own views.

I just find some audience being very harsh towards Xiaoyao and Jing, faulting them when they decided to live or die for one person, but they are at the same time praising Xiangliu for living and dying for his foster father? Is loyalty to a foster father more impressive than being devoted to a person that they have chosen to love and spend the rest of their lives with?

I don't think there should be this kind of discrimination. Does being committed to fighting a war mean its more grand than choosing to be committed to another person? I have seen some Xiangliu fans who have also scolded Xiaoyao for being 'small-minded' on weibo for wanting to achieve 'so little' in life.
But aren't they totally missing the whole point of Xiaoyao's character? She has never been someone who set out to achieve some grand achievement in her life, all she ever wanted was to live a simple, happy life with someone she loves. She was never going to open some big impressive hospital in Da huang and become the first female administrator *joke*.

Lastly the novel and drama maybe different at times, but at least Tong hua is still part of the screenwriting team, so the changes she made to balance out the story or adding scenes probably are still part of her vision as she wrote the novel. There is so much the drama left out or changed because entire arcs had to be removed, but for better or worse, that will be what we get. I am afraid after the leaks in S2 especially the parts they have changed regarding Cangxuan, but we will have to see how it works out on screen.

For me, all the characters learning how to love in their own way, and making their mistakes along the way is all part of their growth in Lost You Forever and I am here for it.

I believe in the drama Chenrong army has been referred to as the rebel army? Or is it just my subs? I will look for it again later.

I agree, Xiyan was the 'bad' one that invaded others first but its also true that Chenrong had lost the fight. Even their royalty had conceded the war to stop the fighting to rebuild their lands. Honestly in Chinese history, this kind of dynasty changes is nothing new. And with every change of dynasty its true there will be remnants of the past trying to topple to new to reinstall the old. There will always be someone who comes along thinking they can do a better job to govern, for Dahuang's case, they lucked out that Cangxuan could rule well.

My question was that at what point is it still meaningful for Chenrong army to be doing what they are doing. In times of relative peace, where everyone including the people in the Central plains have put the past behind and moved on, but this small army still refuse to stop fighting, for the sake of fighting?

Lets say they managed to kill Cangxuan, would they really be able to bring Chenrong back? Who will be the new King? Hong Jiang? It seems they are fighting for the sake of it, not for a real future.

The Chenrong army had no real support from their own people, they depended on stolen supplies and Xiangliu making deals. I can't even call them rebel army since normally at least rebels have some support from the people themselves.

I don't think that he is a villain but its true he did many things to hurt Xiaoyao as much as he did good things for her. For every good thing, Xiangliu marred it somehow, with intention or he just had no choice.
If I have to compare, I would say Cangxuan is the real villain in LYF lool

Actually that was totally blown out of proportion. This cutout was not brought up stage by the guys like the S1 promotion, but an awkward 'surprise' that tencent staff prepped and the staff carried it on.
After the hosts prompted or joked they should carry her down, they immediately said staff would carry it down... so the guys left and TJC remained to promote his next drama.

Honestly I felt this would not have been so awkward if her fandom did not say all the horrible comments about all the male leads and how each of their actions is to 'steal her heat' or 'market CP' with yang zi.
I am very worried about them recording Hi6 variety show next week.
Who knows what kind of negative marketing will be able to be achieved by one wrong look or one wrong handhold?

Its true a century is nothing to high level deities but low level deities don't have long lives... by the time towards the story ended Lao Mu had passed on. I think many Chenrong soldiers might also have died of old age before the final battle.

Anyway I am not asking for people to pass judgement on them, just wondering how audience view them?
War is never good, and Tong Hua showed the different types of people who have survived war. Uncle Lirong had retired and was not fighting in the war anymore even though he was still friends with Xiangliu.
Lao Mu was a deserter. Was he a coward to want to live out the rest of his life in relative peace? I don't think we should fault him for his choice either. I just wonder how many in the army really didn't want to leave Hong Jiang or they stayed out of this pressure or loyalty?

Nobody wants to live in war is what I feel.
I just feel sorry for the Chenrong soldiers led by Hongjiang and I wonder what was Xiangliu's frame of mind to decide to follow him into certain death. If Hong Jiang ever changed his mind, I think Xiangliu would have not insisted on fighting also, since the Chenrong war is not his war to begin with.

I respect your view and I am sorry to hear about war in your country, but I am not talking about a fresh invasion.
The Dahuang war has gone on for centuries.
The Chenrong army is no longer defending its people. In fact it is harming its own people by being a constant existence to create instability in the region.

Incidentally I also hated Cangxuan for invading Haoling. That was so unnecessary to me. I don't like his vision of 'unification'.

But anyway I am asking about Chenrong army, so please don't mix it up with real wars in the world right now.

There was some brief fandom scuffle on weibo yesterday which thrown this topic up - whether Xiangliu's 大义 was valid.
I am not interested in mud-slinging or fandom fights but this has been a running theme in LYF.
In S1 we see small scuffles by the rebel army, which hardly makes one think of great battles... Now in S2, the topic of invasion and war will really come to the forefront. So I am wondering what do people really think about Xiangliu's 大义？This word translate into "Righteousness"?

This term has been mainly used to define Xiangliu.
However, it has appeared a few more times too in the novel for others.

In a part that was written out of S1, about the Central Plain's Autumn Games... it was mentioned that Chishui Fenglong's father's 大义 was that he conceded the war to surrender to the King of Xiyan for the peace and stability of the Central Plains. They were the royalty of Chenrong but they gave up fighting and even fought against 'their own' who refused to stop fighting, generals like Chichen, Hong Jiang etc

Cangxuan gets mocked sometimes because his 大义 to unite the world was mainly through 'peaceful' marriage alliances. He build up his empire through all these balance of power between all the different clans. And Cangxuan was not a bad leader, in fact the novel emphasized his rule was very good for Dahuang.

Xiaoliu hated the idea of war since she and Cangxuan were both war orphans, she lived with a war deserter and also raised war orphans. She knew how bad war was. But it would seem after visiting the rebel army camp she seemed quickly moved by the rebels just because they were dying of illness and some men sang some touching war songs in deep manly voices ( haha). But for me, I was not so quickly moved.

I noticed that some Xiangliu fans definitely embraces this passionate fighting spirit of the rebel army that seemed destined to fail. Maybe its like Sparta's 300?

I had to wonder if I really empathized with the rebel army. They are not defending a city or people from invasion. They are actually more like a small faction of soldiers who refused to concede defeat.
They were just hiding in the forests or mountains of Chenrong. What were they really defending?
Its like they are stuck in this purgatory of no return. They cannot imagine returning to normal peace times, and they want to follow their fellow soldiers into glorious death.

Honestly I felt that before Cangxuan took over Xiyan throne, maybe they may have a shot to destabilize the rule after his uncles come into power instead. But when is the point to concede they lost? In short, to me this was a group of men who are driving themselves over the cliff, but they want to drag as many people, including innocent civilians, over with them as they could.

Xiangliu himself acknowledged that Hong Jiang was a fool, leading a bunch of fools.
So their 大义 is not really Xiangliu's or is it? Did he ever believe in their fight?
All I can see is Xiangliu's loyalty to his foster father, which some people have suggested its a blind loyalty. Perhaps to Xiangliu, all his lives belonged to Hong jiang since he saved him, even though Hong Jiang never demanded it.

Other characters in the novel talk about the 大义 of the Chenrong army. Tong Hua definitely tries to paint them in a good light. The leads also (have to?) support this since its the story they are bringing to life.

However I feel like I am just not convinced by this 'spirit'. I know obviously every different side thinks they are in the right, but when is enough fighting enough? Should the rebel army have called it quits?

Any thoughts on this?

There was some brief fandom scuffle on weibo yesterday which thrown this topic up - whether Xiangliu's 大义 was valid.
I am not interested in mud-slinging or fandom fights but this has been a running theme in LYF.
In S1 we see small scuffles by the rebel army, which hardly makes one think of great battles... Now in S2, the topic of invasion and war will really come to the forefront. So I am wondering what do people really think about Xiangliu's 大义？This word translate into "Righteousness"?

This term has been mainly used to define Xiangliu.
However, it has appeared a few more times too in the novel for others.

In a part that was written out of S1, about the Central Plain's Autumn Games... it was mentioned that Chishui Fenglong's father's 大义 was that he conceded the war to surrender to the King of Xiyan for the peace and stability of the Central Plains. They were the royalty of Chenrong but they gave up fighting and even fought against 'their own' who refused to stop fighting, generals like Chichen, Hong Jiang etc

Cangxuan gets mocked sometimes because his 大义 to unite the world was mainly through 'peaceful' marriage alliances. He build up his empire through all these balance of power between all the different clans. And Cangxuan was not a bad leader, in fact the novel emphasized his rule was very good for Dahuang.

Xiaoliu hated the idea of war since she and Cangxuan were both war orphans, she lived with a war deserter and also raised war orphans. She knew how bad war was. But it would seem after visiting the rebel army camp she seemed quickly moved by the rebels just because they were dying of illness and some men sang some touching war songs in deep manly voices ( haha). But for me, I was not so quickly moved.

I noticed that some Xiangliu fans definitely embraces this passionate fighting spirit of the rebel army that seemed destined to fail. Maybe its like Sparta's 300?

I had to wonder if I really empathized with the rebel army. They are not defending a city or people from invasion. They are actually more like a small faction of soldiers who refused to concede defeat.
They were just hiding in the forests or mountains of Chenrong. What were they really defending?
Its like they are stuck in this purgatory of no return. They cannot imagine returning to normal peace times, and they want to follow their fellow soldiers into glorious death.

Honestly I felt that before Cangxuan took over Xiyan throne, maybe they may have a shot to destabilize the rule after his uncles come into power instead. But when is the point to concede they lost? In short, to me this was a group of men who are driving themselves over the cliff, but they want to drag as many people, including innocent civilians, over with them as they could.

Xiangliu himself acknowledged that Hong Jiang was a fool, leading a bunch of fools.
So their 大义 is not really Xiangliu's or is it? Did he ever believe in their fight?
All I can see is Xiangliu's loyalty to his foster father, which some people have suggested its a blind loyalty. Perhaps to Xiangliu, all his lives belonged to Hong jiang since he saved him, even though Hong Jiang never demanded it.

Other characters in the novel talk about the 大义 of the Chenrong army. Tong Hua definitely tries to paint them in a good light. The leads also (have to?) support this since its the story they are bringing to life.

However I feel like I am just not convinced by this 'spirit'. I know obviously every different side thinks they are in the right, but when is enough fighting enough? Should the rebel army have called it quits?

Any thoughts on this?

I have always thought that Xiangliu had always been tempted to be an option for Xiaoyao but he never could take the first step and put himself into the ring, because he thought he would lose. This proud guy seemed to me that he has a mindset that he wants her love, not only her companionship? He was not going to settle to be only friends.

I think the time he spent with her was not only because he was fond of her, but he really was hoping if she might choose him. It just never got to the point where he would even consider leaving his foster father, because it never came close enough for him to think he would be an option.

The couple bug connection he had with Xiaoyao was actually to his disadvantage, because he could clearly feel her heartache and pining for another man, so how was he supposed to fight that. Otherwise he might have had the confidence to at least give it a shot.

Xiangliu was also just a guy who was learning how to love, same as Xiaoyao and Tushan Jing. I want to include Cangxuan too but somehow I didn't get a feeling he was learning how to love, more like he was imposing his love on Xiaoyao. But that is another topic.

I have noticed that after watching the trailer, many people have been quoting that she chose Tushan Jing but that is not quite true?

Since this part is already in the trailer, I won't mark it as spoiler since my points are from season 1.

In the novel and drama, there has always been a distinction between these two names.
Ye Shiqi was free to roam the world, he doesn't have the weight of a clan's responsibility on his shoulders and accountable for the livelihoods of countless of people. Tushan Jing was groomed to take over as the head of a conglomerate that runs throughout Dahuang. Its not some small business.

Its about the same world of difference as Fangfeng Bei and Xiangliu. Fangfeng Bei's persona was an 'idle womaniser' but Xiangliu was the feared general and enemy of Xiyan.

Ye Shiqi was the simple sweet guy with nothing from Qingshui town, who Xiaoyao always missed. In the novel, when she is back later ( I won't go into more details, but 'she looked over and expected to see Ye Shiqi' ).

Wen Xiaoliu was fine with Ye Shiqi being from a noble family - she even gave him a medicine pouch which was such a 'girly' confession move, but she kept pushing him away once she found out he was Tushan Jing, since it was out of the question for someone like him to end up with a man- at the time she had no idea she can change back or would reclaim her princess status that could match him?

Tushan Jing also knew the difference, that's why his 15 year promise was not to marry Xiaoyao but to return her Ye Shiqi. He didn't say after 15 years Tushan Jing will be with you. He promised her Ye Shiqi will be with her.

When Xiaoyao was in a coma she thought about Jing and wondered if he already took over his clan, and she said " How could the leader of the Tushan family be Ye Shiqi?"

Xiangliu asking her the question using Ye Shiqi was odd, because why didn't he ask if she will marry Tushan Jing? It would seem Xiangliu thought her headache was caused because she wanted to say TSJ but she couldn't, since TSJ was already married and 'unavailable to her'. To say that out loud would be wrong and she won't allow herself to want that. I thought Tan Jianci injected a good sense of desperation into the second time he asked the question, because he was maybe hoping for another answer.

Its interesting that Tonghua retained this controversial point in the drama as well, or would it be too boring if she made Xiangliu ask the third question as "Are you willing to marry Tushan Jing?" hehe

So far parts of the trailer matches the leaked script so I won't hold my breath for a great S2. Its already a bad sign that its so short. They took away soo much in the drama adaptation I wonder if its because of a lack of funding. I just need closure to their story.

Yes you are right they took Xiaoyao's line and made Jing say it...
Although this could show they are 'alike in thinking' or attuned to each other, I would still have preferred Xiaoyao to say that since its her own line... they did make up something else for her though which was apparently controversial lol