about Sniper Butterfly- in the book there's no 6 year time jump, they get together at the end of his first year in uni and get married basically as soon as it's legal. it's all about them maturing together.dindin:
That makes a lot more sense, and I now understand why the time skip irritates me as much as it does (even tho it does get better later on). I already dislike dual timeline storylines as is because they're 9/10 times handled poorly, and this one jumps between them so much T_T But I also know why they did it (same reason why they aged ML up from 17 to 19, lol). But my question is... if the story is so dependent on a borderline taboo age gap that they will not and also cannot show on-screen... why bother adapting it into live action? And why China of all countries? 😭 At least let Japan have a go!
Thanks for the insight, tho. What are the odds that someone here had read the novel just when we were discussing this? haha! Maybe I'll read the book at some point.
Have you watched the drama too? Is the pacing similar to the book, or is it angstier like I imagine it to be? I have the feeling that a LOT of content was cut from the book to fit the drama format (especially the dual timeline thing, which ends up occupying so much screen time). Because in the drama, it kinda feels like things happen rapidly without much build-up or consequence.
(except for the sex scenes that start about two thirds in)
Were they bad, unnecessary, or mdom? xD
Isn't this the one where everyone died in the end? :-opotatocouch:
That's A Journey to Love
Moonlit Reunion has a botched ending, but not sad.
I can't wait to start this. It sounds so good!
It seriously is. I'm savoring every episode.
Pleaaaasssseeee drop that link when you're done!
👌😁
Did you stop at ep 13?
Watched ep 14 but didn't like it much, so imma wait until I'm not as sleep-deprived to continue and see if I have more patience for it.
Hilarious the scene of him finding her bra, getting all flustered, and then running to the shower... How bold, China. No subtlety, huh?
I need your reactions to when they start dating 🥲 Li Wu is soooo bewildered and cute.
🥺🥺🥺🥺 I can only imagine.
I didn't think they would date in the past, tbh. I thought the breakup was gonna be more of a roommates/jiejie-didi breakup, haha.
but she literally died on top of a man from lust, so she could be reborn and be puritanical, I guess. I rolled my eyes and turned it right off.
You did good. So tired of that shit.
Which one should I start with again? Sorry, I forgot 😅
Fu Ma Mei Tian Du Xiang He Li. An actually good historical matriarchy (with only some slight eye-roll moments)
the initial flinching is probably muscle memory at being struck by his uncle. It's beautiful that Cen Jin is slowly rewiring his brain
You make a good point, that's most likely the case. Very cute indeed how he's healing.
That definitely manifests in the dream he has about her later 😏
1,000%
"Humans are one of the few species that keeps trying to drive itself to extinction."
Where is the lie? Greed is a hell of a dr*g
they could've diversified and given platonic bonds a little more attention
Kinda feels like both leads have no life outside of work/school and each other, lol
It's quiet moments and understanding.
Exactly.
The drama didn't have to tell us Li Wu thinks Cen Jin hung the moon and the stars because he looked at her like she did
It was very well done. I think you're right, and this is the turning point. After this, he starts becoming more flustered and staring at her longer, etc. So cute.
To be fair, I'm an extremely high-functioning insomniac, so I get it.
But he's a man (/hj)
Also, it's not like they supplement it with other things to show he actually does still have the issue. Like we discussed earlier, insomnia is life-ruining, and I know the severity varies depending on the person, but I just don't get even a glimpse of that from the drama's portrayal. At least they did something with his migraines in ep 14.
Also, this scene means her attraction won't come out of nowhere when they start dating.
Yeah, good, 'cause I'm not getting romance vibes from her a lot, lol. But the actress is also not... all that good
I found Sniper Butterfly's "issues" realistic because most people's lives, including mine, aren't that eventful.
I mean, there's uneventful, and then there's nothing happening. I get where you're coming from, but I don't think this is the best they could've done, and I think the story deserved better.
I'm not saying I want melodrama, because I frankly dislike the genre, but the leads have no struggles whatsoever, and it's both unrealistic and betraying of the kind of story it should've been, and most importantly, the kind of story it promised to be. Both leads are stunning, extremely intelligent, thriving at work, are standout and selfless people, have great families (except for ML, but that's also the only source of conflict for him in the beginning, so I'll give them a pass for that), have great friends, live in a huge house in a lovely location, are healthy as horses, and are extremely wealthy. Like, this isn't even uneventful, it's just fantasy xD No one's life is like this, and those who have it this good don't really make for a very compelling MC to follow for a whopping 20hrs+
Take, for example, Nothing but You. ML struggles with not being recognized in his team, then switching sports entirely, then being looked down on by his new teammates, then a mid coach, overworking himself to be able to compete, burnout, sports injury, and recovery, all this while pursuing FL AND dealing with his mother's abandonment. Then there's FL, abusive and stressful job, switching careers, winning her new team over, trying to make something of the new team, her uterus condition, her mother being pessimistic, dealing with said overworked athlete pursuing her. And it was still feel-good and light (maybe a bit more melodramatic than it should've been, I admittedly skipped a lot, lol). But there were struggles realistic to the characters. The leads from both dramas are in quite similar positions, and yet only the ones in NbY struggle. In fact, Li Wu is in a far worse position than Song Sanchuan, given his past abuse.
It's like a core part of writing. Stories need conflict. Even if it's something slight like they had in the beginning (ML's shyness and his previously abusive situation). It doesn't have to be melodramatic clichés like abusive mothers and unyielding exes. It can be other things. Slice of Life dramas also have conflict, and those are feel-good, easy watches, oftentimes very fluffy, and I love them, so I know it's not a genre or a me thing.
Like the drama KNOWS this, because it does introduce the conflicts, it just doesn't let them develop or linger, so they actually end up taking away more than they add. Because instead of having a situation where we get to see the characters cope and overcome something, it just gets resolved within the episode (sometimes even with plot conveniences). The only conflicts that linger are romantic and mostly in the present-day arc.
But that's also not the only thing. It's just that we don't see anything interesting happen other than them being cute together in their apartment and then sometimes going out to eat. Like the mall and comedy dates were cute because something actually happened. They did things. Sadly, both were shown mostly as montages and slowmos of them smiling together, which takes away from us experiencing life with them. Same with neither of them having or building a life outside of work/school and each other. They don't hang out with friends, family, go shopping, have hobbies, etc.
I think this is in part because of the constant back-and-forth between the timelines. There isn't enough time to sit with the characters and follow them through an arc before it gets cut in half, and we're thrust into a completely unrelated arc, so even conflicts that ARE present feel shallow because they force you to disconnect from them to invest in something else and repeat it over and over again. If they wanted to keep the dual timelines thing, then it should've been every 2-3 episodes.
I also think that the beginning did not set up such a fluffy, no-stakes story up. It starts out with pretty severe abuse and then turns into the fluffiest of romances. The trailer further reinforces this; it's giving angst.
Bait and switch is my #1 most hated trope for good reason. Being sold one thing only to end up getting another is very frustrating and disappointing. 😕 That's not on you, tho, I'm talking about the drama creators.
It might sound like I hate it, but I really don't. I do like it, but I can't lie to myself and say it didn't start disappointing me. I think I especially feel so strongly because I like it so much. It just makes the 'what could've been' hurt all the more.
I understand if you don't wanna read all of that, lmao. I got a bit carried away
didichan:
Unveil: Jadewind any one watching this ? So far the Chemistry is pretty rubbish but is it just me ? They are coming of as sibling or distant friends. I just finished Glory and butterfly so maybe the spice was too strong there …
I'm watching it rn. Can't say I vibe much with neither the chemistry nor the acting, but I like their dynamic and their roles ig? xD
I do think by comparison to the other dramas you mentioned, it's gonna be lacking because it isn't romance-focused at all, but even for a regular drama, the chemistry isn't great (keep comparing it to Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty, which had rlly good chemistry and acting and yeah...).
What ep are you on? I'm currently on 11, and to me, it did get better
Arclei:
I'm watching it rn. Can't say I vibe much with neither the chemistry nor the acting, but I like their dynamic and their roles ig? xD
I do think by comparison to the other dramas you mentioned, it's gonna be lacking because it isn't romance-focused at all, but even for a regular drama, the chemistry isn't great (keep comparing it to Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty, which had rlly good chemistry and acting and yeah...).
What ep are you on? I'm currently on 11.
yes am thinking of just like the dynamic of Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty. Not even the romance ... I am getting more chemistry with the lead female and the other female chracter or is it just me lol...dynamic It felt chaotic, but I love detective series i will stick with.
yes am thinking of just like the dynamic of Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty. Not even the romance ... I am getting more chemistry with the lead female and the other female chracter or is it just me lol...dynamic It felt chaotic, but I love detective series i will stick with.
I think she has the best chemistry with her mentor, tbh xD
Yes they are cute but at this point I’m just in episode 3 maybe it gets better. I thought it would be like RR from Glory so I rushed in 🤣
Glory seems to be very RR, so I don't think we'll be getting something like that anytime soon, though Tigers Sniff the Rose does look promising.
The first case was the weakest overall. It gets better afterwards, and the lead's dynamic is giving some RR with their positions and personalities, which is pretty rare for such dramas, so even if subtle, still enjoyable for me.
Happy watching!
That does sound really interesting and unusual, lmfao
Wouldn't that have been an AMAZING watch?!?!
Well, thanks for the heads up, I'll pass on that one hard.
I don't blame you. I couldn't finish it.
That's hysterical.
I wanted to watch it, but ended up forgetting about it until now. I can't even remember the name, so we'll see if I can find it again lol.
I think FL is like a historical general that transmigrates to the future and thus keeps wanting ML to be her submissive concubine, but ML doesn't, but also does, and so there's a push and pull where they try domming each other. From what I've seen, he tries to dom her, and then she ends up domming him, so a good reverse of how a lot of femdom content tends to go. Something I could see myself watching even if it isn't exactly my cup of tea.
Oooh...this sounds absolutely exquisite! You know I love me some good dom x dom action (even more so when it ends up being RR LOL) so thanks for the recommendation. I knew Xue Zi Qi wouldn't let me down for long.
Did I tell you I skimmed an article about her saying how she likes playing domineering FLs? XD I was like, oohhh, that's why you're so convincing. You like this. You're lowkey about this life.
Also, the ML is Li Zi Jie, who just looks so... mmm yknow.
He has the best "I'm in total bliss" faces!! And those lips? A gift to everyone with eyes.
I started a really promising drama with Li Zi Jie where he plays a Green Tea ML. He's absolutely stunning in it, but my iQiyi trial stopped in the middle, and I refuse to pay the subscription. I tried to find the drama elsewhere, but haven't been successful so far.
Watched ep 14 but didn't like it much
Oh, I'm surprised by that :-o SML was very simpy in that ep, and I don't remember any mdom scenes either.
I thought the breakup was gonna be more of a roommates/jiejie-didi breakup, haha.
Nope, they’ve actually been dating before they break up. That's what makes it even harder for Li Wu. I realize now that the drama does borrow some things from the novel during those eps.
But the actress is also not... all that good
Poor Michelle XD She's quite decorated as an actress. I liked her portrayal of Cen Jin, and thought her acting shined during the divorce arc and the back half of the drama where you see her struggle a bit more.
Daniel Zhou totally steals the show though.
(maybe a bit more melodramatic than it should've been, I admittedly skipped a lot, lol)
This was actually my exact issue with Nothing But You 😅 I thought it was more melodramatic than it needed to be, and tried to use various conflicts and problems to make the leads seem interesting, but they were never interesting to me.
Even with all of those things happening, the drama was ultimately boring and I couldn't connect with the characters. I think we agreed on that.
That doesn't mean I don't get what you're saying about Sniper Butterfly though. There are conflicts, but they're not being explored as they should be, which is a valid critique. I even agree to a certain extent. The first couple episodes of the drama do have a heavier tone, and I did unwittingly hype up the drama to you, so I can understand why you were expecting something different and why it feels like a bait-and-switch.
I think this is in part because of the constant back-and-forth between the timelines. There isn't enough time to sit with the characters and follow them through an arc before it gets cut in half, and we're thrust into a completely unrelated arc, so even conflicts that ARE present feel shallow because they force you to disconnect from them to invest in something else and repeat it over and over again. If they wanted to keep the dual timelines thing, then it should've been every 2-3 episodes.
This is a good plan. In the beginning, the drama lingered in the past longer to resolve things, but toward the middle it started switching back and forth more often, and sometimes the episode would begin in one timeline and end in another. I did see the drama trying to connect some things (Cen Jin moving Li Wu into the guest room in the past while she reminisces over his box of things in the present...etc), but it doesn't linger, like you said.
I love the juxtaposition of the characters' lives and personalities (in Li Wu's case, especially) the dual timelines allow us to see, so I wouldn't want it gone entirely, but I agree that switching the timelines at least every two episodes would've helped the storytelling feel smoother.
I wonder if this was a deliberate choice by the director/screenwriter since most people have a short attention span these days. I wonder if they worried about people being able to remember what they saw two episodes ago (aka almost two hours) enough to make a connection when needed? Or if people would be bored if they spent too much time on certain storylines 🤔 Media literacy's at an all-time low, and I read TV and film makers are purposely dumbing things down for audiences. It's a shame, but this thought often crosses my mind when I see dramas take the easy way out.
It might sound like I hate it, but I really don't.
It doesn't sound like you hate it. It just sounds like you were let down, which is fair. Happens to me all the time.
I happened to go into Sniper Butterfly with no expectations, so I think that helped. And even though there was a tonal shift after the first few episodes, it wasn't jarring so I liked what the drama slowly became.
If you do decide to stick with it, I'd still love to read your reactions :) No pressure though.
Wouldn't that have been an AMAZING watch?!?!
It definitely would've... Imagine Hong Luan Yin vibes but with this premise. Mmmmmm~
I can't even remember the name, so we'll see if I can find it again lol.
Ugh, the worst!
I knew Xue Zi Qi wouldn't let me down for long.
Queen always has to serve!
Let me know how it is if you end up watching it (it's on my ptw but a bit lower down xd)
You like this. You're lowkey about this life.
That makes perfect sense. That's why she's so convincing... She's one of us!
I think there are a bunch of actors that are RR-leaning 'cause there's no explanation otherwise as to why they have mostly RR projects and do them so well. Twice is a coincidence, five times is not xD
I have no idea how you find these articles about vertical actors, lmfao.
He has the best "I'm in total bliss" faces!! And those lips? A gift to everyone with eyes.
augh yeeees, you get me 🙏
I started a really promising drama with Li Zi Jie where he plays a Green Tea ML. He's absolutely stunning in it, but my iQiyi trial stopped in the middle
omg NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-
Maybe you could go to his drama page and skim the links people post to see if you can find it? That's such a bummer- it sounds so fun :((
SML was very simpy in that ep, and I don't remember any mdom scenes either.
There wasn't any mdom at all, haha. It was all around cute, but also the issues I brought up earlier, and I had a migraine, which didn't help.
The sudden 180 with the secondary leads was very jarring to me. Like, they were very cute, but also, when did this development happen? T_T
Nope, they’ve actually been dating before they break up. That's what makes it even harder for Li Wu.
Damn... that's brutal- imma brace for impact T_T
Poor Michelle XD
Don't get me wrong, she's fine overall, but she just looks a bit... confused all the time and awkward. She isn't as comfortable either in the role or as an actress as ML is, who, as you said, totally steals the show. I also liked her best in her divorce arc.
Even with all of those things happening, the drama was ultimately boring and I couldn't connect with the characters. I think we agreed on that.
Yes, we do xD I wanted to like it because I love sports dramas and both actors, but it was so meh.
There are conflicts, but they're not being explored as they should be
That's exactly it. It's so close to being so so so good.
and sometimes the episode would begin in one timeline and end in another.
I noticed this too, and it happens way more than not. It's like they try to always sprinkle in at least 5 minutes of the other timeline. If this were a kdrama with eps of 70-80 minutes, I'm like, okay, I guess we can spare some time, but it's literally 40 min 😭 We do not have the time for a detour, people!
As for the connecting thing, I did see them try to do that? But it felt awkward and they kinda dropped that not too long into the drama. Could've been interesting... but I kept thinking that those moments would've probably hit harder if we had just seen them as a time skip with all their past already in mind, yknow.
I wonder if this was a deliberate choice by the director/screenwriter since most people have a short attention span these days.
I honestly wouldn't be surprised... More and more, I hear of media being made to be watched while doing something else entirely, so this isn't that much of a stretch. We truly are in an era of anti-art, huh? How bleak.
As for media literacy... yeah, tell me about it 😭 Nuance is dead and so is fiction.
Maybe I'm being overly harsh on a cdrama that's honestly... just a romantic cdrama at the end. It does a lot better than others, so I guess it kinda fostered the hope that it would rid itself of common issues, but that's just me being too optimistic, tbh. Its worst offender is really just being a bit boring and uncharacteristically fluffy, which I can say for literally every single cdrama I've watched thus far, so it's to be expected.
It doesn't sound like you hate it. It just sounds like you were let down, which is fair. Happens to me all the time.
Alright, glad I came off the right way then. I'm always a bit hesitant about sharing my more negative opinions, especially with someone who recommended me something, because it's always a bit of a bummer, and I'd rather talk about what I did like, but I'm trying to work on my rejection sensitivity so I thought I'd share anyway and who knows, maybe interesting discussions could be found in the critiques as well.
I happened to go into Sniper Butterfly with no expectations, so I think that helped.
Yeah, that's valid too. I also tend to hold fondly dramas that I had no expectations with. I always try to keep my expectations low, but it's not always easy, haha.
If you do decide to stick with it, I'd still love to read your reactions :) No pressure though.
I'll most likely finish it because I do like it more than I don't, just not too sure of when. I'll post my thoughts when I do! ^^ I love our convos and like-minded observations, hehe
Also... speaking of babygirl (Daniel Zhou), you should check out the wrapped trailer for his Shadows of Desire drama and let me know what you think... 'cause uh... I think we might have another RR historical on our hands...
Trailer: https://weibo.com/9059069781/5265082708920236
Let me know how it is if you end up watching it (it's on my ptw but a bit lower down xd)
Will do. I wanna watch it tonight, just trying to find one with decent audio. If not full audio, then some sound, like at least footsteps 😭
That's why she's so convincing... She's one of us!
Exactly! I always get a feeling...
(It's like looking in a mirror)
Twice is a coincidence, five times is not xD
I whole-heartedly agree with this theory.
I have no idea how you find these articles about vertical actors, lmfao.
I'm nosy and chronically online 😭
Maybe you could go to his drama page and skim the links people post to see if you can find it? That's such a bummer- it sounds so fun :((
I tried, but maybe I missed something because I was sleepy. I'll try again. Because if it was good throughout the end (and didn't suddenly become mdom) I was going to tell you about it.
also the issues I brought up earlier, and I had a migraine, which didn't help.
Ooh, understood. Hope you're feeling a little better.
She isn't as comfortable either in the role
I wonder if it's because she was actually going through a divorce with her husband while she was filming 🥲 They announced it after Sniper Butterfly aired. And it would explain why she was so good during the divorce scenes. Probably hit too close to home. I hope she gets a Li Wu in real life if the divorce wasn't because of something she did.
More and more, I hear of media being made to be watched while doing something else entirely, so this isn't that much of a stretch.
Yes!!! So many shows are being told to be rewritten so viewers can still understand what's happening while they scroll on their phones and do chores. That's awful!! How are screenwriters supposed to tell complex stories to people scrolling on TikTok????
We truly are in an era of anti-art, huh? How bleak.
Flat out dystopian.
Maybe I'm being overly harsh on a cdrama that's honestly... just a romantic cdrama at the end. It does a lot better than others, so I guess it kinda fostered the hope that it would rid itself of common issues
I do the same thing when I'm really hopeful about something in the beginning. I may have even done it with Sniper Butterfly if I hadn't gone in with zero expectations. But it's the best noona romance I've seen it a while, and it was the first full-length drama that kept my attention after my Fated Hearts hangover.
maybe interesting discussions could be found in the critiques as well.
I think they often are. I didn't take your dislikes personally, and think you had some valid points. I actually like critiquing art & media, and enjoy a respectful debate here and there. I think it's healthy, but many people don't do well with criticism. It's taken as a personal attack on someone's taste and character instead of an exchange of thoughts and a different perspective. I often learn a lot during these types of discussions, and sometimes change my mind on certain things because I see the other person's point.
I was nervous posting my thoughts about The Romance of Tiger and Rose, but once I saw how you responded to them, I knew we were good LOL. And since I didn't denounce you over your understandable first impression of Zhang Ling He as an actor, hopefully you felt comfortable to express your thoughts to me too :)
I always try to keep my expectations low, but it's not always easy, haha.
It sure ain't! Especially when a drama makes you giddy in the beginning.
I'll most likely finish it because I do like it more than I don't, just not too sure of when. I'll post my thoughts when I do! ^^ I love our convos and like-minded observations, hehe
Okay, take your time. Me too :3
Also... speaking of babygirl (Daniel Zhou), you should check out the wrapped trailer for his Shadows of Desire drama and let me know what you think... 'cause uh... I think we might have another RR historical on our hands...
First of all, the FL's cool armor, and THE POTENTIAL BLINDFOLDED KISS???? (What's with Danny and blindfolds huh? >.> First Li Wu and his white blindfolded dream sequence, now this??)
Your screenshots already got me excited, then the trailer left me desperate for more!!
The cinematography is stunning, and I like that the FL looks like she can properly wield a sword. The tragic moments we got glimpses of featured some raw acting from the FL and Daniel, so I'm looking forward to seeing them in their entirety. Those kiss scenes looked nice too >.> As usual, Daniel's bending like a pretzel to reach his co-star's lips XD I don't know who the tallest actresses in C-drama Land are, but one day I'd love to see him get one as a love interest and have a drama scene go something like this:
Daniel's character: You're tall.
Tall FL: And you're pretty.
Like, I'll write the screenplay. For free. Just give me a ramen and Red Bull stipend.
Anyway, I'm stoked for Shadows of Desire! I think it'll get me to feel something, which is always the goal no matter what I watch. It looks like the actors and production team put a lot of work into it. When a drama is earnest, it's much easier to forgive a less than perfect plot and/or script.
What did you think about the trailer?
(Btw, I say we propose another deal. You keep these trailers and BTS pics coming for different dramas, and I'll supply you with updates about what's going on in the actors' personal lives LOLLLL).
