Isn't it implausible to the point of ridiculousness that Zhao Gang said absolutely nothing to Shi Lei after the…
everything is right in ur comment....except... for the pajama choices give rights to those of us that hate feeling any coolness on our bodies at night but also it's our fault for waking up in a pool of sweat BUT STILL i am in the US we are having a heatwave but i am in socks and a sweater and all black PJs RIGHT NOW!!!!!!
Ok so I have a lot to say and I normally never get "heated" but I just have to let this out. First off I love…
i feel like ep 10 is already at its worse but if it isnt then ill be really irritated lmao more so than i am not. that's an extra push and waste of time. but maybe it really should be expected??? ?IDK ANYWAYS your comment made me think.....you're right because honestly they're being sort of immature and it's like bitch yall can /ask/???????????????? the writing stumbles there and i guess the characters too? hm hm hmmmm yes the assuming thing...they should assume they like each other because they obviously do and shi lei should then assume that his ex isn't a threat by using his braaaaiiiiin and yu zhen with his wooooordsss
i saw him in gifs cos his pic doesnt do him justice and did that motivate me to start the show? no it was apple but he was very much a part of that decision cos LORD
Oh my! I can't believe you have the same thoughts as me! At the beginning of season 1, they seem like they were…
same thoughts!! i think for sotus it was such a big deal that it was out (4? years ago now?) at least from the comments i've seen about that people remember it fondly as like a Big Drama at the time in bl. for this one i think you're absolutely right lol grabbing like good looking dudes off the street and being like ok now kiss when clearly they would rather not
thank you for sharing your experience and i am not commenting on the literal depiction because that is not up…
- it’s fine to interpret it differently i was just pointing out that i do not think the OP sees it that way but is not implying that it is not difficult. i don’t care about this drama but i care about the discussion around it and the interpretation. that’s what interests me.
- it isnt about the nature of the representation in his depction of an autistic character that is something that autistic people define and then others define through acting lenses but that’s not the point
- every country has medical privacy laws. not called hipaa but they do which is how we dispute over intellectual property, spreading drugs, and research. this is why pharma has lawyers and hospitals do; this is the law someone close to me practices.
- they have a responsibility in creating an evnrionment that adheres to certain rules if they decide to be artists and that’s the point of filmmaking; you want to emulate as best as you can not just fuck around. my point is not at all about the literal operations of a hospital but the fact that is job is a communal one that in itself is a system that communities support because of lack of care because of the system.. and there is a BASE of reality and the commonality is the relationship between a patient and a person so yea like if i watcha hospital show i sure as hell wanna see em wash their hands....it's really not that hard to do or write lol
- strawman argument in bringing up impossibilty to divest from capital therefore do not criticize art and stick to real life. a) i dont want to be an activist full time i am an artist b) that's not how it works. activists dont magically opt out of capitalism because no one doesnt live in it. the counter-argument to critiquing art and my contribution to a critique being capitalistic. "i wish they critiqued capitalism or touched on the system because it directly affects this character and he lives on planet earth." "yea but you live in a capitalist society and also art is capitalistic too so i dn't think they need to talk about hospitals and healthcare this isn't an educational program"
thats not the point the point is there's more to it than that and they have a responsibility as artists and people with brains to follow through and if they do not or we have different thoughts...we critique it. because that's what humans do to promote change and thinking and to interrogate ourselves.
- criticizing art is to criticize it. critique is not a contribution to capitalism unless you also view working as such which, therefore, yea i agree. nothing we can do about it so we're gonna keep on. a strawman argument is telling someone you contribute to capitalism when there is no opting out. it is finite in its creation. karl marx lived under capitalism too like that's kinda why he wrote about it. our thoughts are not owned by capital, though, these are our thoughts and feelings we are voicing them. jsut because it's the opposite of what one wants doesn't mean it is being dictated on the principles of remaining in capitalism and this hellscape
- there is every responsibility and no artist worth their salt can ever pretend that art is apolitical when these are the very nature of the issues ergo a critique is how people received the character of oh jung se’s and how his existence is characterized in this world
- parasite was made by a socialist and i have endless complaints about parts of the film, what happened on set, and the very costly making of that film, its damage to the environment (it has to be tho; production isn't green and that's another contradiction we live in! we have to do our best) but BJH would rather vomit than ever think this way about art. he chooses and he gets to decide because there isn't anyone else who is going to give people like him, park chan wook, park kyoung mi the chance to spread their filthy red agenda. every film he has made has been anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, pro-labor (unfortunately misogyny is still there) and even then in how this film was made and it’s aftereffects are both positive and negative. it is what it is. i love that movie but do i want to hear about how a rich person loves the movie? nope.that's life and critiquing it is to move us forward and to push our minds not even as a consumer as an artist it is beyond valuable and helps me understand colloboration
- this is what representation and culture is. art is not representation or culture but rather how we tell our stories from our understanding of the world and what we find interesting about humanity. those observations make us socially responsible and make us better artists and helpers. art is our way of helping so we better do it right - black panther let people in asia know that we’re all not hideous beasts and i find that fucking pathetic and disgusting, i have a lot of issues with the film itself, i hate disney and imperialism and capitalism and findit fucking SAD that this film is the depiction that people needed to understand we are fucking human beings. that being said, it exists, it is what it is, and it did what it did. not a big deal buta bit of a big deal - i dont need to share my credentials but i promise you i wouldnt be this way if i didnt learn from like being an artist and living and time with community and the people who have privilege, me having privileges, all the intersections i am absolutely nothing without this insight and it is simply impossible to have a narrow view of the world and your art in it if you want to grow. a lot of ppl are not interested in that. the profession wants those that are going ot stay in line. that's why it's abreath of fresh air when there's subverted expectations and surprising things shows do and say and the way in which they do it. - i <3 unions and im in one thanks for ur time but ill think about uh voting and stuff but like next year when i actually need to (another strawman sorry bud)
i want to say that i think this does affect our views but media is only doing what it can insofar as what our…
these traits; antisocialness in a sociopathic manner, psychopathy, narcissism...they are not benign and they can't be looked at as such. they could take people who live with this and manage but there is a difficulty if someone has gotten to the point of having to get help and getting a "diagnoses" (ag and it cannot be ignored because that's life. a lack of empathy is a problem when it is so stacked and severe you are awful.
it also doesnt give ppl the chance to understand complexity, dysfunction, levels of dysfunction and not using these things as an excuse to support bad behavior. thre's an extreme emotional aspect so when IPV victims may go to get help shelters focus on the physicality instead of the torture at the hands of their abuser who has these traits on diff levels. even the complexity of difference and what is acceptable human behavior within and without a personality problem. if it's something that we cannot ever know in a concrete way because the nature of it makes you think you are superior and not needing of help then you wont get it. soooo....there's a conundrum and there's no fix. there is no benign narcissism in yourself as a narcissist, no benign sociopathy in its stricter defintion, and certainly not psychopathy.
we all value s stability and safety and love. well, when you value yourself the most and use people as supply to quell your emotional turmoil and to help serve your gross needs then you are a threat and it needs to be changed but more often than not they do not care, do not want to, or cannot. i'm not interested particularly in weaving in and out of like acceptable traits that come with just really damaging sets of existence. if we were supposed to feel for these people they would do disorders that alienate people genuinely for things that are not bad just different. asocialness isn't antisocialness and that's ok but that's a word we have for it. great so get the difference right. no interest in humanizing the terroristic sides of these things and not okay with people that hurt others on purpose which they are doing for their own gain consciously or unconsciously, knowing hurt or not understanding hurt but just not caring or liking the pain you inflict. that fuckin shot of endorphins of being a piece of fucking shit and using these particular diagnoses to pretend like that's enough.
notice how with bipolar or schizophrenia or borderline or even depictions of like severe depression or anxiety it isn't the meanness of these people; they are psychotic because of these but they are not characterized as lacking something but more such severe emotional turmoil or a break in the brain that leads them to do this. the instability aiding it on and these disorders are only marked by instability. that's the shit we need to interrogate and work on because those are all extremely untrue as an inherent trait to the disorder.
the emotional, physical, psychological turmoil that comes from being self-obsessed, not empathetic, superior, controlling, manipulative, gaslighting, instability for your own regulation, only valuing yourself and seeing people as objects around you. those manifest in dff ways for those big 3 "difficult" personality types and traits or disorders.
i am not interested in negotiating the demonization of psychopathy because it is something that is harmful but we are not harmful just for having brain serotonin issues and emotional regularity. and it happens that for other people several can coincide at once. there is a difference just like there is a difference between being /asocial/ and /antisocial/ and even within that framework it doesnt have to be psycho terror but it does mean yes they will in some way harm those around them for traits that are harmful. from people uninterested in those that are not them and explaining that these names are not necessarily easy to pin down (psychopathy etc) r hurt people on purpose even if you know it's wrong, or need to be a parasite on other/s supply for your happiness and ego (and that bitch in IOTNBO solidifies his autistic brother as a burden because it fucking doesnt suit her time and needs)
it's not love and it doesnt show you a reality. they dont change, we arent seeing them go into therapy, we're not seeing them learn coping skills becuase that's not interesting enough because this hsit isn't glamaorous and there's a negative component that we cannot shed—unlike with bipolar or borderline or depression and anxiety—there's an inbuilt selfish non empathetic terror that if left to run rampant will destroy everyone in its path and more often than not there is not much to be done since it takes massive amounts of movement for ppl to even get help and even then. there's a diff between being abhorrent as a human and having emotional issues and personality disorders related to emotions and brain regulations etc. the two can come into contact with each other and that makes it worse but on its own it is bad enough if we are going by the narrow view. frankly only asocialness is benign to me
also oftentimes these responses are because of traumatic childhoods, yes, but many of us chooe to go the opposite way. they are both out of self-preservation but it doesnt matter at that point because it's been dne, you have built a line in the sand between yourslef na dothers, it may be what you know but it's not right and it's not enough. and you continue to do damage. that's it that's that it's over. we can contextualize pain but that doesnt mean shit in stopping the process. they want to romanticize disorders that are based on causing problems because of it being at the expense of others and that remains unchecked for many and emboldens them. i dont care what they went through and if we are going to depict these issues well—the ones where people are living for you and are objects to you and that is the nature of its destruction and why you fucking suck—then there has to be honest about the realities and it is NOT happy. there's no getting around htis reality but we want to because it's not interesting enough to see the complexities nad in-and-outs and realities of this nature instead its fodder to lob off onto other mental disorders that are not about the ways you can be a vampire and treat others.
i think this shoudl spur us to consider these more of adjectives and not as diagnoses because a diagnoses needs to be given and it's a known marker to not get help if you do not care.
"A key factor in successful therapy for ASPD is recognizing individual fault. People living with ASPD who can’t admit or accept their actions are harmful or that they have a role in the harm they’ve caused may not be able to improve."
it goes on to say there's therapies and ways but that it is difficult because it lies in responsibility and care. the adjectives announce the problems but they do not indicate a diagnosis and it is hard to do. we should be distinct in adjectives imo because words carry meaninggggggggggggggGGGGG
(someone posted this below) https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/understanding-antisocial-personality-the-stigma-tied-to-aspd-0510197 there's no point in being dishonest about this stuff we need better healthcare but these are not good adjectives to have and it is so fucking difficult to diagnose so if we are going to give people a diagnosis on tv then they should respect that and actually talk about solutions like pointed in the link that another person posted
it gives solutions and though i am uncomfortable with certain ahem...words (ike leave BPD out of this unlessu rbeing explicit that it can be co-occuring but not that all of us have an iota of these traits that make it antagonistic on a superiorty or uncaring level as opposed to emotional instability and for certain ppl with bpd their instability and anger and what can set them off in different cases which is harmful and doesnt excuse bad behavior but the component it lacks on its own is the refusal for fault and using of others like i dont get why this is such a confusing disorder to ppl but whatever lmao) it explicitly talks about its difficulties and what diagnoses can mean but also what it means to just exist and its names so if they are conflating antisocial and the severe negativity with psychopathy, narcissism, sociopathy and its interchangeable then YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT nothing about her behavior detects that it's not just antisocial that can be coped but pairing that with fucking narcissm too like lmao no
thank you for sharing your experience and i am not commenting on the literal depiction because that is not up…
he’s not going to abandon his brother because that’s his brother (i guess) but this idea of being tied down and not having freedom—especially when he decided to go into this specific field—is not the function and issue with the child and/or person. you make the vow to take care of them then you follow and do your best; you don’t have to ignore your frustration and the difficulty but that is on you to sort out and no amount of unempathetic terrible women is gonna help that. it’s bullshit that he needs to spread his wings form a decision he decided to make and one that keeps him around people who have different issues.
people do not have time, they do not have money, they do not live in a world that helps them and supports the person with this disorder. they do not need to be cured, autism does not need a cure, it needs help and support for parents and siblings and to the person with it to be their best self in a system that encourages that instead of demonizes it. it’s typical to live in poverty because of a disability and that exacerbates the tension so what could be done to alleviate the tension of a caregiver? their answer to that isn’t real.
and that doesn’t really come into play when a rich loser comes into the scene anyway (and they arent chomping at the bit to display ableism and its affects and perpetuation of poverty) with an agenda to free him because she cannot feel empathy and they don’t know how to write a person without exaggeratedness and sort of respect to tthe subject as opposed to just a display.
so what helps? truly? what would be nice to see these people do in production if they want to claim to show different sides of life and be progressive and help society? recognizing the problem, that we are a part of the problem, that we cannot change the problem by going along with it. that means….
being on our way towards the destruction of capitalism + racial capitalism. specialized healthcare that doesn’t have to be privatized as a way to promote stratification.living is easier with support and money—rich people have different understandings of their disabled child if they can provide, get caregivers, or even if the state steps in (here the state (as in the US) has some good programs but it is nowhere near as comprehensive as it should be because um it should be free. not totally sure how in SK the state could intervene with social services but i know damn sure capitalism and power doesnt help and doesnt care.)
to actually promote the mutual aid reality of being in community health and taking it seriously but these people were not interested in that! why would this brother be such a burden? it’s resources and the society around us not the person itself. especially when someone has little control over it.
they could have gone the route of a more quieter portrayal on the spectrum; some difficulties in interpersonal actions and things that indicate this person being on the spectrum affects them and their life with that. i would argue a lot of shows insert some “quirks” for characters to indicate this; they’re a little “off” but that’s how they are. but the idea is that they are different, maybe strange but not as a pejorative, difference is amazing and it puts people into different contexts. that’s why those links are important because we don’t have enough understanding of just how deep these things are entrenched in capitalism and hatefulness of an Other. a show is coming out hopefully with park eun bin about being so called “strange” and being on the spectrum and her life with it as a lawyer. sounds great.
here they decided to pick a facet of this disorder that we know is hard for people to deal with, that we can visibly see is being impaired or whatever, that we do not deem socially acceptable like at all because they present as having a “problem” and they fumble with the outcome. just like they decided to pick and choose what her ASPD is and how much they can twist it, he becomes fodder for their happiness. his coping skills are about them because the show is also primarily /about them/
also… people who are caregiveres like people who are workers and do this for a living; they have no choice. oftentimes these are people who need money or are poor, many of them women, who are not protected with work laws, and who are at the mercy of how the state views it. i’m not too knowledgeable about the healthcare systems outside of the US and their intricacies so i cannot really speak on a completely monetary level but ableism promotes poverty because getting adequate care is generally privatized. and the affects of ableism over there but i’m damn sure, just like here (US), it is a punishable offense to be disabled and to be a loving paid caregiver. it’s pathetic to me that a caregiver can give that much more to several people at once while gaining very little in return just so they can survive and help others survive. they respect the people, care for them, love them if they are good at their job and it is difficult. that is life.
we look at the problems of the effects on the person who is caretaking first instead of how we can live with these difficulties. this is how many parents view their children and it’s selfish. you are responsible so you cannot put the difficulty on their needs onto them and yearn for freedom because it shows up in your ability to be a loving caregiver.
the role may be difficult but it is fucking sacred. i wholeheartedly believe that some of this is our fundamental issue with equating continuing to care for someone and bringing them into this world as a secondary priority to how it makes us feel and its affect on us. istead of accepting responsibility and allowing ourselves to be frustrated and irritated but not push blame and there is a difference. to see yourself as tied to someone to your detriment with something as intense as this (but then to put up with a dumb bitch? like… i mean he sucks too so) we see this with literal children all the time. i was told this by my parents. their difficulties as parents or caretakers should not be a priority over their children/people; they should think about what makes it so hard and a lot of people do. they know it is hard but it isn’t of virtue of them being alive.
this show doesn’t give any indication of what really needs to change which is not the person being taken care of but society’s structure and it’s systemic destruction of difference and refusal to take care of its people for capital gain and power and it compounds with every marginalized piece of you. being disabled becomes even more difficult for the person and others if they are poor.
it would just be nice if a show about this stuff could really be more comprehensive and make some really good new type of art that tries to challenge these ideas and really understands how intersectional and interwoven this stuff is. like socioeconomic pressure, utility as a person in the world and how they can generate surplus, and this idea that adjusting to life for other people is too difficult so why bother. that’s how we continue to stay in this place of leaving people out to sea on diagnoses and on being taken care of.
that's a multilayered issue on a domestic societal and on a global scale. the multilayered-ness that the writers figured they shouldn't bother with because....capitalism, laziness, being uninventive?
on top of that, the use of this particular disorder and the portrayal of cognitive disabilities as solely in an autistic manner is tried and true in dramaland. you can see through almost all the depictions that someone who has a TBI will act like an “autistic” person. thre’s prevalnce of ableism that presents differently over there and is unfortunately a bit more overtly rampant. it was like a big deal in just between lovers that a girl was in a wheelchair and wasn’t ashamed and someone stood up for her because the resto refused to let her in—that’s a real reality. and it was like a big deal bc we dont see that (the solution was to “buy the restaurant” which was stupid bc fuck capitalism lmao u dont just respect us for owning shit ugh but still it was a surprise to see)
then it’s a trope to show us how difficult it is but little to no insight on their actual inner lives as people with a disorder—it’s external. we are looking at oh jung se’s character constantly but it’s through his affects on those around him.
i wouldn't say this affects an already prevalent idea. representation can only go so far and it is spurred by real material change and people with these issues speaking up for themselvs and finding allies to help speak up. this is happening but did they consult community health people? real autistic people? talk about this with them? the commonality of ASD or “difference” in SK and in the world? i’m willing to bet: no.
i would say it confirms certain ideas and beliefs that are distinct in the cultural context and in the context of the world and -isms and systemic shit. sure we see him but what now? what does it mean? is it just to look?
there is an actress who is a single mom in SK and her son has autism (severe) and the love and care she shows is fucking amazing. my parents didnt treat me that well and i was “normal.” fascinating.
she's how i found out more about this issue and then a korean friend linked me to some of the articles. the aactress has more time and money and although she’s a single mom she has a mother that loves her and her son. she went on TV and showed her life as a woman. an actress, a single mom, and a mother of someone with autism. the person she adores like no other and they showed him living and the way he goes about his day. she doesn’t have shame but shedoesn’t have to lie about the difficulty because i think for most people a lot of their pain if they are loving and competent parents/caregivers is knowing the world treats them in a way they shouldnt be treated. she doesn’t want or need him to change she needs him to be happy, healthy, and loved.
personally, i do not believe the show made it clear enough or had any support or solutions and there was a flagrant disregard for all actual health protocols as well. if this was an issue that people think the drama sorted out efficiently and held importance in the way that the show probably didn’t care about to us then there wouldn't be differing opinions even for ppl that like this show.
thank you for sharing your experience and i am not commenting on the literal depiction because that is not up to me to decide...it is up to me to decide if someone is a good actor or not but oh jung se, though an overacted at times, does a good job. great!
i am not autistic and/or on the spectrum. i have adhd and some other brain stuff that is stigmatized but the adhd is the one that is tied to asd and can be co-occuring or either/or can be misdiagnosed (for some people: diagnosed with ASD but just ADHD, ADHD but ASD, or both and this is also a testament to how unrigid our classifications truly are but we want them to be very badly. a lot of psychology studies are trying to approach things on a more trait level basis because of the broad range of existing.) so lemme put that out there that there’s a component i understand on the way we are clustered and grouped and seen as a burden/difficult because of the neeurological disorders but i do not have ASD. another thing is that ADHD fluctuates and though maybe not “cured” there is a way in which it can become background noise and will not dictate our lives. we cannot hop in-and-out of the long lasting existence in ASD. your experience is your experience so i am not trying to invalidate that and i do not know what this is like but i wanted some caveats. now i’ll continue…
i have read from people on the spectrum who think the way you do wrt the drama and others who simply do not. i just searched and found one very quickly so it’s also about your interpretation of events. i also do think there’s something to be said about casting someone who has no experience on the spectrum but that’s another thing for another day.
op is saying (i think) that they represent him as a burden to be freed from and inserted into others lives in a way that makes him more palatable and “easier to be around.” if this is a real depiction of one of the facets and oh jung se does a good job and they got the beats of who he is and what he processes correctly that’s very good. i like this show around a solid 0% but credit it where it’s due. unfortunately i think their research and accolades stops there.
the overwhelming goal is to make money off of these dramas and i little faith of progressive/transgressive works. i do not understand why this show sets up these things: - they don’t seem to understand community health or hipaa laws - they don’t get what being a caregiver means - they do not understand or have taken the time to understand the complexity and nuances - did they talk to anyone that is openly autistic? because SK has a distinct pattern on portraying cognitive disablities and it is consistent and in line with this which really makes you think
his brother is a caregiver. that was his decision. i abhor when people say “taking care of your difficult child” when talking about ADHD. i am not difficult, i am a person; people told me i was difficult because we live in a world that is structured a certain way and prioritizes money and efficiency while many of us need a world that will let us slow down, think, be creative and different.
2 
Id be too scared u never know whats crawling in the night!!!! Good luck!!
for the pajama choices give rights to those of us that hate feeling any coolness on our bodies at night but also it's our fault for waking up in a pool of sweat BUT STILL i am in the US we are having a heatwave but i am in socks and a sweater and all black PJs RIGHT NOW!!!!!!
(also when did they film this lemme stop playin)
still this show slaps (for now..)
thank you for the rec!!!!!
- it isnt about the nature of the representation in his depction of an autistic character that is something that autistic people define and then others define through acting lenses but that’s not the point
- every country has medical privacy laws. not called hipaa but they do which is how we dispute over intellectual property, spreading drugs, and research. this is why pharma has lawyers and hospitals do; this is the law someone close to me practices.
- they have a responsibility in creating an evnrionment that adheres to certain rules if they decide to be artists and that’s the point of filmmaking; you want to emulate as best as you can not just fuck around. my point is not at all about the literal operations of a hospital but the fact that is job is a communal one that in itself is a system that communities support because of lack of care because of the system.. and there is a BASE of reality and the commonality is the relationship between a patient and a person so yea like if i watcha hospital show i sure as hell wanna see em wash their hands....it's really not that hard to do or write lol
- strawman argument in bringing up impossibilty to divest from capital therefore do not criticize art and stick to real life. a) i dont want to be an activist full time i am an artist b) that's not how it works. activists dont magically opt out of capitalism because no one doesnt live in it. the counter-argument to critiquing art and my contribution to a critique being capitalistic.
"i wish they critiqued capitalism or touched on the system because it directly affects this character and he lives on planet earth."
"yea but you live in a capitalist society and also art is capitalistic too so i dn't think they need to talk about hospitals and healthcare this isn't an educational program"
thats not the point the point is there's more to it than that and they have a responsibility as artists and people with brains to follow through and if they do not or we have different thoughts...we critique it. because that's what humans do to promote change and thinking and to interrogate ourselves.
- criticizing art is to criticize it. critique is not a contribution to capitalism unless you also view working as such which, therefore, yea i agree. nothing we can do about it so we're gonna keep on. a strawman argument is telling someone you contribute to capitalism when there is no opting out. it is finite in its creation. karl marx lived under capitalism too like that's kinda why he wrote about it. our thoughts are not owned by capital, though, these are our thoughts and feelings we are voicing them. jsut because it's the opposite of what one wants doesn't mean it is being dictated on the principles of remaining in capitalism and this hellscape
- there is every responsibility and no artist worth their salt can ever pretend that art is apolitical when these are the very nature of the issues ergo a critique is how people received the character of oh jung se’s and how his existence is characterized in this world
- parasite was made by a socialist and i have endless complaints about parts of the film, what happened on set, and the very costly making of that film, its damage to the environment (it has to be tho; production isn't green and that's another contradiction we live in! we have to do our best) but BJH would rather vomit than ever think this way about art. he chooses and he gets to decide because there isn't anyone else who is going to give people like him, park chan wook, park kyoung mi the chance to spread their filthy red agenda. every film he has made has been anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist, pro-labor (unfortunately misogyny is still there) and even then in how this film was made and it’s aftereffects are both positive and negative. it is what it is. i love that movie but do i want to hear about how a rich person loves the movie? nope.that's life and critiquing it is to move us forward and to push our minds not even as a consumer as an artist it is beyond valuable and helps me understand colloboration
- this is what representation and culture is. art is not representation or culture but rather how we tell our stories from our understanding of the world and what we find interesting about humanity. those observations make us socially responsible and make us better artists and helpers. art is our way of helping so we better do it right
- black panther let people in asia know that we’re all not hideous beasts and i find that fucking pathetic and disgusting, i have a lot of issues with the film itself, i hate disney and imperialism and capitalism and findit fucking SAD that this film is the depiction that people needed to understand we are fucking human beings. that being said, it exists, it is what it is, and it did what it did. not a big deal buta bit of a big deal
- i dont need to share my credentials but i promise you i wouldnt be this way if i didnt learn from like being an artist and living and time with community and the people who have privilege, me having privileges, all the intersections i am absolutely nothing without this insight and it is simply impossible to have a narrow view of the world and your art in it if you want to grow. a lot of ppl are not interested in that. the profession wants those that are going ot stay in line. that's why it's abreath of fresh air when there's subverted expectations and surprising things shows do and say and the way in which they do it.
- i <3 unions and im in one thanks for ur time but ill think about uh voting and stuff but like next year when i actually need to (another strawman sorry bud)
it also doesnt give ppl the chance to understand complexity, dysfunction, levels of dysfunction and not using these things as an excuse to support bad behavior. thre's an extreme emotional aspect so when IPV victims may go to get help shelters focus on the physicality instead of the torture at the hands of their abuser who has these traits on diff levels. even the complexity of difference and what is acceptable human behavior within and without a personality problem. if it's something that we cannot ever know in a concrete way because the nature of it makes you think you are superior and not needing of help then you wont get it. soooo....there's a conundrum and there's no fix. there is no benign narcissism in yourself as a narcissist, no benign sociopathy in its stricter defintion, and certainly not psychopathy.
we all value s stability and safety and love. well, when you value yourself the most and use people as supply to quell your emotional turmoil and to help serve your gross needs then you are a threat and it needs to be changed but more often than not they do not care, do not want to, or cannot. i'm not interested particularly in weaving in and out of like acceptable traits that come with just really damaging sets of existence. if we were supposed to feel for these people they would do disorders that alienate people genuinely for things that are not bad just different. asocialness isn't antisocialness and that's ok but that's a word we have for it. great so get the difference right. no interest in humanizing the terroristic sides of these things and not okay with people that hurt others on purpose which they are doing for their own gain consciously or unconsciously, knowing hurt or not understanding hurt but just not caring or liking the pain you inflict. that fuckin shot of endorphins of being a piece of fucking shit and using these particular diagnoses to pretend like that's enough.
notice how with bipolar or schizophrenia or borderline or even depictions of like severe depression or anxiety it isn't the meanness of these people; they are psychotic because of these but they are not characterized as lacking something but more such severe emotional turmoil or a break in the brain that leads them to do this. the instability aiding it on and these disorders are only marked by instability. that's the shit we need to interrogate and work on because those are all extremely untrue as an inherent trait to the disorder.
the emotional, physical, psychological turmoil that comes from being self-obsessed, not empathetic, superior, controlling, manipulative, gaslighting, instability for your own regulation, only valuing yourself and seeing people as objects around you. those manifest in dff ways for those big 3 "difficult" personality types and traits or disorders.
i am not interested in negotiating the demonization of psychopathy because it is something that is harmful but we are not harmful just for having brain serotonin issues and emotional regularity. and it happens that for other people several can coincide at once. there is a difference just like there is a difference between being /asocial/ and /antisocial/ and even within that framework it doesnt have to be psycho terror but it does mean yes they will in some way harm those around them for traits that are harmful. from people uninterested in those that are not them and explaining that these names are not necessarily easy to pin down (psychopathy etc) r hurt people on purpose even if you know it's wrong, or need to be a parasite on other/s supply for your happiness and ego (and that bitch in IOTNBO solidifies his autistic brother as a burden because it fucking doesnt suit her time and needs)
it's not love and it doesnt show you a reality. they dont change, we arent seeing them go into therapy, we're not seeing them learn coping skills becuase that's not interesting enough because this hsit isn't glamaorous and there's a negative component that we cannot shed—unlike with bipolar or borderline or depression and anxiety—there's an inbuilt selfish non empathetic terror that if left to run rampant will destroy everyone in its path and more often than not there is not much to be done since it takes massive amounts of movement for ppl to even get help and even then. there's a diff between being abhorrent as a human and having emotional issues and personality disorders related to emotions and brain regulations etc. the two can come into contact with each other and that makes it worse but on its own it is bad enough if we are going by the narrow view. frankly only asocialness is benign to me
also oftentimes these responses are because of traumatic childhoods, yes, but many of us chooe to go the opposite way. they are both out of self-preservation but it doesnt matter at that point because it's been dne, you have built a line in the sand between yourslef na dothers, it may be what you know but it's not right and it's not enough. and you continue to do damage. that's it that's that it's over. we can contextualize pain but that doesnt mean shit in stopping the process. they want to romanticize disorders that are based on causing problems because of it being at the expense of others and that remains unchecked for many and emboldens them. i dont care what they went through and if we are going to depict these issues well—the ones where people are living for you and are objects to you and that is the nature of its destruction and why you fucking suck—then there has to be honest about the realities and it is NOT happy. there's no getting around htis reality but we want to because it's not interesting enough to see the complexities nad in-and-outs and realities of this nature instead its fodder to lob off onto other mental disorders that are not about the ways you can be a vampire and treat others.
i think this shoudl spur us to consider these more of adjectives and not as diagnoses because a diagnoses needs to be given and it's a known marker to not get help if you do not care.
"A key factor in successful therapy for ASPD is recognizing individual fault. People living with ASPD who can’t admit or accept their actions are harmful or that they have a role in the harm they’ve caused may not be able to improve."
it goes on to say there's therapies and ways but that it is difficult because it lies in responsibility and care. the adjectives announce the problems but they do not indicate a diagnosis and it is hard to do. we should be distinct in adjectives imo because words carry meaninggggggggggggggGGGGG
(someone posted this below) https://www.goodtherapy.org/blog/understanding-antisocial-personality-the-stigma-tied-to-aspd-0510197 there's no point in being dishonest about this stuff we need better healthcare but these are not good adjectives to have and it is so fucking difficult to diagnose so if we are going to give people a diagnosis on tv then they should respect that and actually talk about solutions like pointed in the link that another person posted
it gives solutions and though i am uncomfortable with certain ahem...words (ike leave BPD out of this unlessu rbeing explicit that it can be co-occuring but not that all of us have an iota of these traits that make it antagonistic on a superiorty or uncaring level as opposed to emotional instability and for certain ppl with bpd their instability and anger and what can set them off in different cases which is harmful and doesnt excuse bad behavior but the component it lacks on its own is the refusal for fault and using of others like i dont get why this is such a confusing disorder to ppl but whatever lmao) it explicitly talks about its difficulties and what diagnoses can mean but also what it means to just exist and its names so if they are conflating antisocial and the severe negativity with psychopathy, narcissism, sociopathy and its interchangeable then YOU HAVE TO SHOW THAT nothing about her behavior detects that it's not just antisocial that can be coped but pairing that with fucking narcissm too like lmao no
people do not have time, they do not have money, they do not live in a world that helps them and supports the person with this disorder. they do not need to be cured, autism does not need a cure, it needs help and support for parents and siblings and to the person with it to be their best self in a system that encourages that instead of demonizes it. it’s typical to live in poverty because of a disability and that exacerbates the tension so what could be done to alleviate the tension of a caregiver? their answer to that isn’t real.
and that doesn’t really come into play when a rich loser comes into the scene anyway (and they arent chomping at the bit to display ableism and its affects and perpetuation of poverty) with an agenda to free him because she cannot feel empathy and they don’t know how to write a person without exaggeratedness and sort of respect to tthe subject as opposed to just a display.
so what helps? truly? what would be nice to see these people do in production if they want to claim to show different sides of life and be progressive and help society? recognizing the problem, that we are a part of the problem, that we cannot change the problem by going along with it. that means….
being on our way towards the destruction of capitalism + racial capitalism.
specialized healthcare that doesn’t have to be privatized as a way to promote stratification.living is easier with support and money—rich people have different understandings of their disabled child if they can provide, get caregivers, or even if the state steps in (here the state (as in the US) has some good programs but it is nowhere near as comprehensive as it should be because um it should be free. not totally sure how in SK the state could intervene with social services but i know damn sure capitalism and power doesnt help and doesnt care.)
to actually promote the mutual aid reality of being in community health and taking it seriously but these people were not interested in that! why would this brother be such a burden? it’s resources and the society around us not the person itself. especially when someone has little control over it.
they could have gone the route of a more quieter portrayal on the spectrum; some difficulties in interpersonal actions and things that indicate this person being on the spectrum affects them and their life with that. i would argue a lot of shows insert some “quirks” for characters to indicate this; they’re a little “off” but that’s how they are. but the idea is that they are different, maybe strange but not as a pejorative, difference is amazing and it puts people into different contexts. that’s why those links are important because we don’t have enough understanding of just how deep these things are entrenched in capitalism and hatefulness of an Other. a show is coming out hopefully with park eun bin about being so called “strange” and being on the spectrum and her life with it as a lawyer. sounds great.
here they decided to pick a facet of this disorder that we know is hard for people to deal with, that we can visibly see is being impaired or whatever, that we do not deem socially acceptable like at all because they present as having a “problem” and they fumble with the outcome. just like they decided to pick and choose what her ASPD is and how much they can twist it, he becomes fodder for their happiness. his coping skills are about them because the show is also primarily /about them/
also… people who are caregiveres like people who are workers and do this for a living; they have no choice. oftentimes these are people who need money or are poor, many of them women, who are not protected with work laws, and who are at the mercy of how the state views it. i’m not too knowledgeable about the healthcare systems outside of the US and their intricacies so i cannot really speak on a completely monetary level but ableism promotes poverty because getting adequate care is generally privatized. and the affects of ableism over there but i’m damn sure, just like here (US), it is a punishable offense to be disabled and to be a loving paid caregiver. it’s pathetic to me that a caregiver can give that much more to several people at once while gaining very little in return just so they can survive and help others survive. they respect the people, care for them, love them if they are good at their job and it is difficult. that is life.
we look at the problems of the effects on the person who is caretaking first instead of how we can live with these difficulties. this is how many parents view their children and it’s selfish. you are responsible so you cannot put the difficulty on their needs onto them and yearn for freedom because it shows up in your ability to be a loving caregiver.
the role may be difficult but it is fucking sacred. i wholeheartedly believe that some of this is our fundamental issue with equating continuing to care for someone and bringing them into this world as a secondary priority to how it makes us feel and its affect on us. istead of accepting responsibility and allowing ourselves to be frustrated and irritated but not push blame and there is a difference. to see yourself as tied to someone to your detriment with something as intense as this (but then to put up with a dumb bitch? like… i mean he sucks too so) we see this with literal children all the time. i was told this by my parents. their difficulties as parents or caretakers should not be a priority over their children/people; they should think about what makes it so hard and a lot of people do. they know it is hard but it isn’t of virtue of them being alive.
this show doesn’t give any indication of what really needs to change which is not the person being taken care of but society’s structure and it’s systemic destruction of difference and refusal to take care of its people for capital gain and power and it compounds with every marginalized piece of you. being disabled becomes even more difficult for the person and others if they are poor.
it would just be nice if a show about this stuff could really be more comprehensive and make some really good new type of art that tries to challenge these ideas and really understands how intersectional and interwoven this stuff is. like socioeconomic pressure, utility as a person in the world and how they can generate surplus, and this idea that adjusting to life for other people is too difficult so why bother. that’s how we continue to stay in this place of leaving people out to sea on diagnoses and on being taken care of.
that's a multilayered issue on a domestic societal and on a global scale. the multilayered-ness that the writers figured they shouldn't bother with because....capitalism, laziness, being uninventive?
on top of that, the use of this particular disorder and the portrayal of cognitive disabilities as solely in an autistic manner is tried and true in dramaland. you can see through almost all the depictions that someone who has a TBI will act like an “autistic” person. thre’s prevalnce of ableism that presents differently over there and is unfortunately a bit more overtly rampant. it was like a big deal in just between lovers that a girl was in a wheelchair and wasn’t ashamed and someone stood up for her because the resto refused to let her in—that’s a real reality. and it was like a big deal bc we dont see that (the solution was to “buy the restaurant” which was stupid bc fuck capitalism lmao u dont just respect us for owning shit ugh but still it was a surprise to see)
then it’s a trope to show us how difficult it is but little to no insight on their actual inner lives as people with a disorder—it’s external. we are looking at oh jung se’s character constantly but it’s through his affects on those around him.
i wouldn't say this affects an already prevalent idea. representation can only go so far and it is spurred by real material change and people with these issues speaking up for themselvs and finding allies to help speak up. this is happening but did they consult community health people? real autistic people? talk about this with them? the commonality of ASD or “difference” in SK and in the world? i’m willing to bet: no.
i would say it confirms certain ideas and beliefs that are distinct in the cultural context and in the context of the world and -isms and systemic shit. sure we see him but what now? what does it mean? is it just to look?
there is an actress who is a single mom in SK and her son has autism (severe) and the love and care she shows is fucking amazing. my parents didnt treat me that well and i was “normal.” fascinating.
she's how i found out more about this issue and then a korean friend linked me to some of the articles. the aactress has more time and money and although she’s a single mom she has a mother that loves her and her son. she went on TV and showed her life as a woman. an actress, a single mom, and a mother of someone with autism. the person she adores like no other and they showed him living and the way he goes about his day. she doesn’t have shame but shedoesn’t have to lie about the difficulty because i think for most people a lot of their pain if they are loving and competent parents/caregivers is knowing the world treats them in a way they shouldnt be treated. she doesn’t want or need him to change she needs him to be happy, healthy, and loved.
personally, i do not believe the show made it clear enough or had any support or solutions and there was a flagrant disregard for all actual health protocols as well. if this was an issue that people think the drama sorted out efficiently and held importance in the way that the show probably didn’t care about to us then there wouldn't be differing opinions even for ppl that like this show.
i am not autistic and/or on the spectrum. i have adhd and some other brain stuff that is stigmatized but the adhd is the one that is tied to asd and can be co-occuring or either/or can be misdiagnosed (for some people: diagnosed with ASD but just ADHD, ADHD but ASD, or both and this is also a testament to how unrigid our classifications truly are but we want them to be very badly. a lot of psychology studies are trying to approach things on a more trait level basis because of the broad range of existing.) so lemme put that out there that there’s a component i understand on the way we are clustered and grouped and seen as a burden/difficult because of the neeurological disorders but i do not have ASD. another thing is that ADHD fluctuates and though maybe not “cured” there is a way in which it can become background noise and will not dictate our lives. we cannot hop in-and-out of the long lasting existence in ASD. your experience is your experience so i am not trying to invalidate that and i do not know what this is like but i wanted some caveats. now i’ll continue…
i have read from people on the spectrum who think the way you do wrt the drama and others who simply do not. i just searched and found one very quickly so it’s also about your interpretation of events. i also do think there’s something to be said about casting someone who has no experience on the spectrum but that’s another thing for another day.
op is saying (i think) that they represent him as a burden to be freed from and inserted into others lives in a way that makes him more palatable and “easier to be around.” if this is a real depiction of one of the facets and oh jung se does a good job and they got the beats of who he is and what he processes correctly that’s very good. i like this show around a solid 0% but credit it where it’s due. unfortunately i think their research and accolades stops there.
the overwhelming goal is to make money off of these dramas and i little faith of progressive/transgressive works. i do not understand why this show sets up these things:
- they don’t seem to understand community health or hipaa laws
- they don’t get what being a caregiver means
- they do not understand or have taken the time to understand the complexity and nuances
- did they talk to anyone that is openly autistic? because SK has a distinct pattern on portraying cognitive disablities and it is consistent and in line with this which really makes you think
his brother is a caregiver. that was his decision. i abhor when people say “taking care of your difficult child” when talking about ADHD. i am not difficult, i am a person; people told me i was difficult because we live in a world that is structured a certain way and prioritizes money and efficiency while many of us need a world that will let us slow down, think, be creative and different.
these are good links
https://thewinnower.com/papers/2894-sociocultural-beliefs-and-attitudes-in-autism-and-the-effects-on-families-in-south-korea
https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/study-finds-high-rate-of-autism-in-south-korea/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26122467/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6838605/
https://www.npr.org/2011/05/09/136066097/autism-may-be-far-more-common-study-suggests
gonna continue in a spoiler tag for the rest of it