lovely

i think in south korea age matters a lot for anchors, which is why it was seen as a big deal.

it's irrelevant. besides, the characters are schoolchildren, so it's weird to think about tops and bottoms with them. they're minors and don't need to be sexualized :( positions only matter during sex.

i agree! their chemistry seemed really good as well. i can't wait for this series! do you think it will air after fish upon the sky, or air a couple series after fish upon the sky?

not everyone thinks the same. i was hurt by her words at the beginning of the thread, so i felt the need to say something. and i'm well aware not all bl is toxic—that's why i'm still here, so i can find the meaningful ones. i was speaking out against the rampant fetishization and abuse behind the scenes. no need to invalidate how i'm feeling, though. i'm very grateful for the good bls out there.
we were just having an argument, so i'm not sure why you had to go as far as to call it assault? well, anyway, have a nice day :)

now that i've read what you said, i realize that yeah, the word fujoshi has been twisted, so it makes sense that you would still use it for its original meaning. i respect that :)
"I just think though, that it is hard to expect there to be gay people everywhere on TV. " yes. i understand that, but the thing is many lgbt content creators never get to get those movies/gay characters out there due to lack of funding/opportunity as a result of homophobia. so there's actually a lot of people that want to make it happen, maybe a lot more than you think, but there's too much discrimination and too many conservative mothers that get angry at representation in kids' shows.
and regarding your last question...to be honest, yeah, i dislike most of it but try my best to make exceptions. i know i seem super sensitive getting worked up over every bl show but personally it just hurts to watch, like i just feel sad, not even angry, because i know most of this stems from fetishization, which i have bad experiences with. this isn't me getting "upset with every bad thing" because believe me, i know how harsh the world is. i used to not say anything for the first few years that i watched bls but then the harassment i faced became too much and i became frustrated with anything that commercialized a poorly represented version of the lgbt community (i.e. the really bad bls). but i stick it out for the good bl dramas/shows because i know there are actors/producers/directors who want to break the stereotypes that bl has and create dramas/movies that are really meaningful, so i want to support them :)

agreed :))

dang. at this point, i'm not even offended at what you're saying, i'm just cringing. whether you care about what i have to say or not, you should work on being less rude lmfao. you seem to know nothing of having a respectful conversation and everything of how knowing to use ad hominem attacks, yikes...anyway, being indian obviously plays a vital role, since it's my culture that's being mocked and i know most about it. it's part of my identity, so how in the world am i a SJW when it's about the country i grew up in?? that is just too funny. there are plenty of videos/movies where people bob their heads and hold up "yoga" hands to mock indians so it's annoying to me. that's all. you're obviously not going to find it annoying since it's not...your culture, which is fine. not sure why you're questioning my race or experiences as a poc when you could actually be understanding why i feel offended, but, with all due respect, its exactly something that a white guy would do, so it's understandable i guess. don't mean this in a rude way, but man, the world doesn't revolve around you: just because you haven't seen all the racist videos or seen anyone get discriminated against with these kinds of videos doesn't mean it doesn't happen. this may be a useless thread, but maybe you should be the one to "get a grip" instead and learn how to respect others. speaking on behalf of indian people :) if you respond back to me with another angry comment, you might want to consider that maybe you, not me, are the one that gets offended over nothing and are "ultra-sensitive." if you would like to insult me more and prove my point, feel free! i will not read it nor will i respond, so have fun. or, alternatively, you can just read this comment, curse me in your head, and move on ^^ cheers!

so now you're assuming my sexuality? i'm gay as well, and i do not have seizures all the time...i just don't appreciate mockery and rude jokes and stand up for myself when i feel the need to. this is one of those times, but it pertains to my culture/ethnicity instead of my sexuality.

the gestures and the attire. it didn't seem like homage, it was mockery. even if they meant well i did not appreciate it at all

you aren't even indian...how would you know? i see a lot of incidences of celebrities irl and in tv shows using stereotypical behaviors to mock indians. so can you please mind your own business and not invalidate our feelings? some of us grew up being mocked and forced not to be able to speak out own mother tongue...you're american of german descent so you didn't go through the struggles of being a person of color in america. and just because you were able to laugh off anti-semitism doesn't mean everyone else will laugh off discrimination. also, it's "sikh," and that's a religion, so it wouldn't make sense to see a sikh bit anyway when you're talking about indians and punjabis from india or pakistan. if you don't know anything about indians and the constant mockery we face outside of whatever movies you watch then just don't speak on it when i'm speaking on behalf of indian people AS AN INDIAN.

i agree! as an indian person i was offended. it happens so often, i'm just tired of it. at this point, the worst thing someone can do is invalidate how we feel about it.

haha "fishy" i see what ya did there wink wink

ahh ok, thanks for clearing it up. and also yikes, the fact that there IS a drama with those tags

don't worry, i'm not hurt, its ok! :))
yeah, i definitely believe he has changed! but i am only following his wishes. he made his apology rap at the beginning of the show and said this was only the beginning of his apology, meaning he will keep trying to make up for his mistake and while continuing on with life. so that's why i want to agree with him and say he will have to redeem himself some more. that's all! i really like him a lot. i'll forgive him when he himself says he believes his redemption is complete :) i believe he knows himself best.

oh that sucks :( i heard oscar’s fan base was also prohibited from voting because they made bets which is not allowed

because if zhang jiayuan didn’t make the lineup, then theoretically caelan or oscar would have made it since their ranks are 12 and 13. also, i personally felt like oscar would’ve added more to the team since he is more skilled in rapping and dance and can sing well too, but i know zjy is great at guitar and could probably aid in composing. zjy also mocked desis so i’m a little uncomfortable with him being in the lineup. just my personal thoughts though :) no hate to any of the trainees.

yes...i know. he's extremely talented, i already said that.
but I'm not judging him too quickly by acknowledging his past. i know he's a good, talented, intelligent person, but the remarks he made were extremely vulgar and disrespectful, so he needs to make up for that. i am not insulting him in anyway. you must also acknowledge his past as well. he hurt a lot of people. even he himself knows he made a huge mistake.

genuine question but how did zhang jiayuan make the lineup over oscar? was it because of his fanbase?

he's definitely not untalented and is indeed a lyrical genius. but his past is honestly pretty bad...his path for redemption is going to extend beyond chuang2021, no doubt.

first, you should probably stop calling yourself a fujoshi unless you fall under its definition: "Fujoshi is a self-mocking term that literally means "rotten girl" and refers to female anime fans who are nuts not only for attractive male characters, but for imagining them in relationships with one another." it's a negative word, as i explained before.
but onto my points:
"But straight women write straight romantic novels about men raping women and then the women falling in love with them. It's the same thing!" it's not the same thing because gay people have historically been fetishized with rape. straight people aren't fetishized like that. lgbt people have also been historically oppressed so a straight woman writing about a gay man raping another gay man for sexual entertainment is incredibly messed up. especially since lgbt people are often harassed and raped due to their sexuality, and some parents even use "corrective rape" on their lgbt children to "straighten them." therefore, this is not the same thing as a woman writing about a man raping a woman. "People read those because they want to read a woman and a man just like how I watch this because I want to see a man and a man.." why do you choose a drama with the worst representation of an lgbt storyline if you want to watch two men together? dramas like these are harmful to the community because they cause people to not take us seriously. it's not a light-hearted drama, it's a drama without a plot.
"Not all shows glaze over the difficulties of coming out. All BL does not use these tropes. BL is still a happy fantasy world, yes. It's not realistic, but are Kdramas realistic?" of course there are some gems, like ITSAY! that was wonderful. but there are also too many dramas that follow tropes. i can give you a list of tons of bl dramas where homophobia, rape, and other forms of sexual assault are seen as comedic or normal. and bl can't be compared to kdramas because the bl industry specifically caters to straight women that like seeing men together. yes, there have been some bls trying to get rid of the catering like 1000stars and ITSAY but most bls are not for queer people. there may be a lot of satisfied straight women in the comments of a bl drama, but how many lgbt people are happy? these dramas are typically not accurate representations of queer people. also, kdramas are typically straight because south korea is extremely conservative. there is not a single mainstream kdrama with a gay lead character. you can't compare the two at all.
"Also I do not see the difference between this BL and other BLs. It gives into fans desires? So do all the fanmeets" not every bl is there just for fan service. some are artistic and respectable. but ones like these that "give into fans desires" are terrible because all those fans want is boy-on-boy actions. it's homophobic—they don't care about the queer people themselves. this drama doesn't have a plot because the producers know it'll sell anyway since the fans only want boys to kiss each other due to fetishization. it's DISGUSTING, and it's a recurring problem in the industry.
i don't like the fan meets either, and i also don't like fan service in kpop. though, there are also respectable people watching bls. if we got rid of all the toxic fans, respectable fans could watch in peace, bls would be taken more seriously, and they would be popularized especially in the states.
"And you say there are not many gay films. I have watched over 100 gay films!! I do not know what your qualifications of "normal" is when you call 50 Shades of Gray normal. I feel like you are just calling it normal because it's straight. There were many people against that movie as well." oh my god... your statement is so ignorant and im at a loss for words. i am genuinely hurt as an lgbt person and i hope you know that. never say anything like that ever again.
that's great that you watched 100 gay films. congrats. thanks for counting. but 100 is not that many compared to the millions of straight films out there! there is not enough representation for queer people. do you think the lgbt community, consisting of millions of people, would be satisfied with just 100 films??? i'm guessing that drama, "ultimate masturbation," is one of the 100 films you watched, and it has a gay person raping someone else as a plot device. how is this proper representation? i guess since you're straight you won't understand. but i've suffered a long time from not being able to see people like myself on the big screen and in mainstream dramas. but you, though, can turn on netflix and can almost every movie on there is straight. you can see yourself on the screen easily. i have to hunt for movies/dramas where my sexuality is not used as an excuse for "boy on boy" action or whatever, like this drama. this drama would not have happened like this if it were straight. the producers would have put more thought into the plot and the characters would be more fleshed out.
homophobia is very prevalent in all over the world, so as a result, there's constant queer erasure and not that many queer films. in china, they literally censor lgbt novels and adapt them into bromances/friendships. and regarding 50 shades of gray, i called it normal because it wasn't there for fetishization, it was just a sexy movie. the fact that it was straight plays into that fact because STRAIGHT PEOPLE HAVE NOT HISTORICALLY BEEN FETISHIZED. gay people have. so fifty shades of gray is not relevant at all to what i'm talking about in that regard.
"It's just, I find your comment a little weird because many genres take ideas and distort them and twist them into the most entertaining story." misrepresentation of a group of minorities is one of the many things that can NOT be used as an "entertaining story." sexuality is not an "idea" that can be "twisted." it's something that should be celebrated and shown respectfully.
"I don't think anyone actually believes BL is real life. It is supposed to be a fantasy. That's the point." you know what, it IS supposed to be the point, but fans don't get that. MANY people believe bl is real life. i've seen so many gay couples on social media platforms just living their lives and then you will see all the comments under it that say things like, "omg, a real-life bl couple." just recently, there were was a video of two male close friends on a reality show and there were comments on it like "i love bl" and "my favorite bl couple." fans are already fantasizing that these friends are in a relationship because they are boys. they think bl is real. as i said before, thousands of straight women say they want to be gay because they believe bl is an accurate representation and think it's a super sexy, fantasy-like life. it's crazy how many of them there are. i don't think you know as much about the bl industry as you think if you believe people like this don't exist.
"I don't know how much BL has harmed or helped the queer community, but I hope it helped more than harmed" it's harmed more than helped (also, you should say lgbt community, not queer community). we got some great thai lgbt media like ITSAY and UWMA but bl in general has a huge following of fetishizers. the industry has to be completely reformed for it to help the lgbt community. "I always believe things change, and It Will Get Better" is something very optimistic that only a straight person could say. change is slow, keep that in mind. it will take decades for the fetishization to stop. i have no idea when the bl industry and its fans will start fully respecting the lgbt community. i have no idea when all people will start respecting the lgbt community. it definitely won't happen while i'm still alive.
i genuinely want to help you understand since i know you're a good person. so please take the time to just go through what i'm telling you and don't invalidate what i say. it's the worst thing you could do if you are an ally.