Froehlein

My translator has issued the following:
"I'm sorry for taking up public resources during this time because of my personal stuff, and I'm sorry for hurting a lot of people who care about and support me as well. I hope everyone can work and live well.
I know that work is an actor's greatest strength, and I'm not good enough at the moment. In the future, I will do my best to devote myself to my works, so that everyone can know more about actor Tian Xuning.
Thank you again for your attention and support, thank you!"

Be glad you only have to wait 14:30h for the next episode, we've been like this for 5 days 😅

I only found out about all the drama surrounding Tian Xu Ning today from the comments here. Now I've seen a short video of him bowing apologetically at the airport today, looking so tired, lackluster, exhausted... It really scares me, I'm sad to see him like this and I'm really worried about him.
He gives us so much joy and he's obviously not well. He should be laughing, happy and enjoying the success of his hard work...
Can we please be careful here in the comments to protect him and his privacy as best we can? No spreading of speculation about his private life, respect for him and politely tell commenters who, perhaps out of curiosity and interest, spread rumors to refrain from doing so?
I think it would be great if we didn't support the appalling behavior he has to endure in his home country.
I don't want to see him break under the pressure. I want him to be happy!

Apart from the fact that you should allow him his private life and hopefully he is very happy with it regardless of his relationship status: Relationships are formed at any time relationships can break up at any time. So I would be very careful about talking about lies here. (And even in the event that the statement was not entirely true, it would serve to protect his privacy. Please just think about it a little.)
Imagine if he had recently gone through a breakup and now has to put up with these kinds of statements and rumors. Do you have any idea what that can do to a person? How he feels? Why don't you just stop it? Respect him! So if he says he's single, then we accept that and believe him. And let's just hope he's happy and healthy and let's enjoy the show...

I would say that by episode 6 at the latest, you are totally addicted to the main couple. The dynamics of the two and their charisma are enchanting... Honestly, when they laugh it lights up the room, the tension between them is so strong you want to give them a push and say: Now go... Oh, and it's hilarious too.
So I would say: yes, it's that good.

Tell me, is it true that the snakes are listed in the credits as (paid) actors? 😅😂 If so, what are their real names? I would like to give proper credit to the additional main actors...

With all the links shared here about the actors, I have to say: I am deeply impressed by them as people. What they went through, how they fight through all the hurdles and are humble in the face of life. They radiate an enormous warm-heartedness that often only people who go through very difficult times develop.

I love people with a beautiful smile and honestly, when Zi Yu smiles, I could watch him for hours. He lights up the whole room with it. It just makes me happy. Especially after reading his story.

Yes, I noticed that the first time I watched it. I celebrated it! One of my absolute favorite books... :) and I think it's an impressive reference to the dynamic that's developing between CC and WSW...
I love Easter eggs in movies 😁

"History 4 is probably the most disgusting BL ever made, I hated it, but there was a lot about it that I liked. " - Haha, I totally agree with you. I like the actors, for example. But I was totally disturbed. (And then the high rating...) Especially because the pair of brothers reappear in HIStory5 and everything is portrayed as romantic.... It's the BL I learned to cancel series with....
The BL described (manipulative, controlling ML) doesn't mean anything to me off the top of my head. But I have to say, emotional abuse in particular totally triggers me.
And you're welcome. A written discussion is often more challenging because body language, tonality and possible quick questions are missing, you know the other person 0, there are also different cultural influences, so a discussion can quickly go wrong. But I can tell you that I've found an extremely enriching conversation partner here, for example, whose opinion I value and respect very much, with whom I often have very different opinions about series and whom I met for the first time in a very emotional, explosive discussion here :D After that experience, it would be a shame not to get involved in difficult discussions. As I said, I have a fundamental interest in being human and other perspectives. I like to broaden my horizons.

To the first part I would like to say, yes, I think bad behavior is also accepted in the same way in other genres and is often shown from the male gaze. And yes, you should always consider the different times and backgrounds, as I mentioned in my first comment. When I said the novel was written 10 years ago. The leap in awareness and consent in the media has been enormous in the last 10 years. However, it doesn't change the fact that problematic behavior is problematic behavior.

As for your statement about the portrayal of gay people, I agree with you. I've had a few discussions about it and criticized the portrayal because it's often fetishized and objectified and it's been explained to me that there's a big difference between BL and LGBTQ dramas and I find what I'm looking for in LGBTQ dramas. But I'm convinced that the BL genre is evolving and will evolve and that there are just huge differences between stories that were written in 2015 and stories that are being created now and in the future. My impression is that BL will gain more visibility and that the target group will change as a result. Because more queer people are also looking into the BL genre.

But my perception of the portrayal will certainly also have blind spots, as I look at things from a female perspective. For example, I'm also critical of the fact that women are often portrayed miserably or as total fujoshis, especially in the older BLs. But even there, the portrayal is changing. I think you have to be aware of where the genre comes from.

Now I don't know how long or intensely you've been into the BL genre, what you've seen, what you might have liked. Have you ever looked into JBLs? I personally like them because they break out of the stereotypes more, are also thematically broad (but there are problematic ones there too). Have you ever watched “Futtara Doshaburi”? Or “Miseinen: Mijukuna Oretachi wa Bukiyo ni Shinkochu”, “Old Fashion Cupcake”, “Bokura no Shokutaku”, “Koi wo Suru nara Nidome ga Joto”? Maybe there would be some... Mmhmm, I'm not sure if this would be for you as it looks like stereotypes at first (but they are broken up in my opinion) and has editing flaws in my opinion, but you could check out “Ballboy Tactics”. The character Kwon Jeong U is one of the best BL characters for me, I found it refreshing.

Have you seen “Your Name Engraved Herein” or “Love in the Big City” (series)? Those are not BLs.
Sorry, it's gotten a bit long again, my execution....

Oh, me too. But I love historical dramas and I like the cast. It fits like a glove for me...

Totally agree with your two cents ;)

I totally agree with the comment above you. The psychology behind the characters, the fact that there is no simple good or evil, or that it simply serves as entertainment, are some of the appealing things about depictions in the gray area. Above all, you also get to reflect on yourself: what entertains me, what do I reject, where are my limits? Does watching the portrayal of bad people perhaps even make me feel better myself, more moral?

That's why I think it's good when there's a controversial discussion about this. And I think it's good that you're getting involved in the discussion here despite the headwind. Because that makes it more nuanced and somehow opens you up to different perspectives... My impression is that you perhaps like being able to identify with the characters in some way and because it contradicts your personal values, you have this blatant rejection.

For example, things become problematic for me when they become too close to reality. I'll bring up the pair of brothers from HIStory 4 again, which totally disturbed me. The story here is far too fictional for me for it to come close to reality.

And hey, that's basically how you find out what's yours to watch and which tropes you might want to avoid. Personally, I stay away from horror films and I thought Game of Thrones was such a brilliant idea, but I couldn't stomach the blatant violence. I also enjoy RomCom to switch off, but for many years I wasn't aware of the problematic depictions. Gray areas appeal to me because I find the complexity and the spectrum of humanity extremely interesting.

At the end of the day, tastes are different. You just have to realize that it's fiction and that it stays that way. And for me, that would be a point of criticism of the BL sector, for example, of fans who transfer the fictional love portrayal of the characters from series to the actors, who want to bring fiction into reality and then become abusive and, for example, do things like ask actors to separate from their partners or otherwise invade their privacy....
And it's perfectly legitimate for you to reject the show for yourself. Just try to let others have their niche and not devalue them.
I also just feel the need to emphasize that CC is learning to respect WSW's boundaries very quickly here on the show.

Unfortunately, this post is getting a bit long.

As I said, these are just a few examples that came to mind spontaneously.
I listed the first ones under “Relationships you don't want to have in real life”. I wasn't talking about a rape that happened.

Love Actually: including stalking, power imbalances, toxic relationship patterns are portrayed as romantic.
Twilight: bad behavior: e.g. Edward is in her room every night without Bella's knowledge and watches her. The werewolf even imprints on a baby as a life partner.
50 Shades: emotional abuse, abuse of power, controlling behavior, misrepresentation of BDSM - abuse is confused with practices.

I listed the following under “Relationships with (attempted) rape”
365 days: The woman is abducted. Rape is glorified. Message: “No as a woman is worth nothing”
Game of Thrones: I'm referring mainly to Daenerys and Drogo (played by Emilia Clark and Jason Momoa.) They were a very popular couple as far as I can remember. They got married, she was raped on their wedding night and then she fell in love with him.
Outlander: FL was almost raped by ML at the beginning of their acquaintance. They fell in love with each other.

I also never listed Pretty Woman under “relationship with rape”, but under “relationship that you wouldn't want to have in real life”.
Here we have typical gender clichés: weak woman, rich and powerful man. She is treated condescendingly by a rich man. That's not something you want to experience in a relationship. Incidentally, the movie wasn't originally supposed to have a happy ending. And just for your information: Pretty Woman is one of my favorite movies.

When I talk about fairy tales, I'm referring to the original fairy tale versions, not the Disney version. In the Disney version, Snow White is 14 years old, while the age of the prince varies up to 32. Which would also be problematic in this case...

What I'm trying to say is that the kind of behaviour you're criticizing here can also be found in other genres.

"Fictional love stories are the reality we wish we got in real life"

No, not really. Because RomComs are often quite problematic... e.g. Love Actually, Twilight, 50 Shades of Grey...

"Only in BL ( it does mean LOVE right? ) the love story start with a drunken rape [...]"
Love stories that are hyped but started with violence and almost or actual rape: 365 Days, Game of Thrones, Outlander.

And these are just a few well-known movie adaptations without in-depth research...

I also don't think anyone would want to experience a love story like the one in Pretty Woman in real life.

And let's take another look at the fairytale section: Snow White was 7 and the prince was so in love with her beauty that he wanted to transport her dead to his kingdom to have her with him. Sleeping Beauty is raped in the original fairy tale. Kisses without consent.

The gray area is everywhere...
I find it irritating that you want to cite such high morals here and devalue people who watch BL, but turn a blind eye to the problems in other genres.

I think the fake relationship is just an excuse for her to get her hands on Yoo Ha. I just binged the episodes and with the first encounter, it was clear that she has the hots for him. That's why I think she wanted to get rid of her ex and I almost think that her ex is not the aggressive guy that he's being painted as here.

If you are not put off by historical dramas, I would recommend “Memoir of Rati” for Friday. So far I think it's really well produced, surprisingly well-rounded and sophisticated (due to its multicultural approach and history).

Oh and don't forget “Hishakai Shindo” is also on Friday, with probably the most beautiful view a school can have...

“China is using the safe BL formula of toxic filth” - That's what my comment was referring to.
I can't say anything about your personal attitude 10 years ago, I don't know you.

“It does seem that the most toxic BL is always written by woman, but it also seems to be watched by mostly women as well.” - Yes, the BL genre in general is a genre where mostly women write and mostly women consume. So, among other things, fantasies of women are served. That's why consumers think the hot, toxic man in the series is great, but would reject him in real life. It's fiction. The violent depiction of ML is used here to describe the initial situation. As the story progresses, CC's tendency towards hypersexuality and BDSM tendencies appear.

Thanks for the info on Wang. Apparently I missed this information. Will have to look out for it when I watch it again....

As for YY, clearly her actions emphasize the character, we agree on that. I was referring my execution to Ann's suggested timeline. If his transformation took 2 months (which sounds realistic, but was handled quite tightly in the show for me), then YY also took at least 2 months to get to know CC. For my personal feeling, the timeline has more of an effect of maybe 2 weeks of transformation and after 2.5 weeks YY gets to know CC. I somehow have an internal gap between perception and what is said, which in principle is not a bad thing. I just wonder where this difference comes from (is it because of the presentation or because the series feels like a cool drink on a hot summer day to me?) and I have to realize while watching that probably more time has passed than I perceive, which is why I have to consciously classify things differently for myself, e.g. in the snake plot.

I think you should keep in mind that the novel on which the series is based is 10 years old. The story has been revised and a lot of the toxicity has been removed. According to the author. She can't adapt the characters any further without making it a different story. I think you should keep an eye on the source material on which it is based. Maybe she was a trendsetter for the topic back then? I mean, if it were a story written in 2025 now, then I would look at your criticism differently. But it's a film adaptation of a story that's at least 10 years old, so I think you have to look at it differently as a whole.

I mean, to put it bluntly, I don't expect a Jane Austen film adaptation to adapt or change the characters to modern times.