Verliebt

Well, HH was unabashed when he said that he wanted to create his own kind through his child. He wanted to create a psychopathic murderer like him. How in world then he willingly want to transplant YH's frontal lobe to BR. That would not fit his purpose. Because transplanting the frontal lobe would make JBR have emotions and it will only mean he will not be a psychopath killer anymore.

So to what purpose he did so then? To save BR's life?Because BR's life was saved by the operations done to him by the doctors, so there's no need to save him again. The doctors said that they need to see his development before doing another surgery.

So what's the point the writer want to convey to make a murderer repentant through brain transplant fiction?

Should she goes to the extent she crosses so many lines to make her fiction? The story is a fiction yes but it is grounded in realistic elements. Like humans, line of works, etc., even the crimes are things that realistic...it happened in a real world.

KMC as a detective even have to offer his resignation letter because he thought it is the best way for him to be out of the force to seek justice on his own. It is a fiction yet those elements are realistic, that's within the lines. That's just an example though to make a point that even the writer know it can't be crossed.

Now if she ventures into science fiction, and make such an absurd move, she'll only make viewers immersed in a wreck train of thoughts.

The brain transplant as a science fiction could be done, yes. But as someone who wants to make a serial killer into a repentant soul, using unrighteous approach is already a bad twist:

Since this the fiction grounded in realistic elements;

1. To make a transplant you need a donor consent when the person was alive.

2. Since this is brain, it needs a steady blood flow to supply oxygen and nutrient, and that means the donor 's heart must be kept alive.

3. Since this is to be done to human which is a realistic element in the fiction, doing brain transplant means there's a possibility if immunorejection by the receiver. Not to mention this is partial transplant which means the parts to be transplanted must be cut out from
the main body of the brain. You need to be very precise since nerve tissue has very limited ability to regenerate, so if it is scarred due to the operation to move it out, then it will be a flawed transplant since scarred nerve tissue can't transmit signal properly. So what's the point? The point is you need not just the best neurosurgeon but the experienced one who have done that with human brain, and you need a sophisticated technology support. It can't be done just by skilled hands of a neurosurgeon who in 20 years can only keep his surgical skills done on mouses. And experimented on mouses.

4. Realistic hospital will never allow a criminal to conduct any medical service especially a surgery even that criminal is the best neurosurgeon on the planet. Because it will violates medical ethic codes. There are many neurosurgeons there and they indeed have done the job saving BR's life...that's what's important right? And they have done the operations on him right? And will do next following his development. How in the world that in 20 years there's no one to be titled the best neurosurgeon in Korea? It is not just offensive to Korean medical world, it's an insult to all the doctors that they really have to get a help from a serial killer?he saved one but murdered many how can that be taken into logic?

5. Illegal surgery by illegal surgeon to a man that basically has been saved alive and the worst is they stole an organ from a man. Even he is dead, it is human rights abuse to steal an organ. You just can't do that in the fiction like this. Except it is in the realm of fantasy fiction where the writer can create whatever world she/he wanted.

6. BR not only has his frontal lobe damaged, his temporal lobe also damaged, so that's two parts of the brain to be removed and relocated. It will take like how long time? How can the prisoner surgeon being out in such long time, not to mention he's not just a common criminal. So besides the hospital now the prison also breaking the law in the name of saving a ML? Or if the government also involved? How can viewers processed all that?

7. Not to mention there will be so many people involved in that...like wow they're all breaking the laws but well because this is a fiction and that this is to serve the sense of rightousness to be awaken in BR let's just put all that aside. Let's just focused on the journey of BR towards the ligth of emotions that he might never have before, the remorse, the guilt, and the repentant heart.oh my.


There are more reasons that will make this drama went over board if the writer will go on with brain transplant done by HSJ to BR.

But one critical point here is that YH is shown dead, his mom cried ober his dead body that didn't show his head being cut open, his hair was there all nice. No sigh of head operation.

He died of septic shock said the doctor speaker...but before that he was suffocated by BY's attempt murder. Now....his brain either way is dead....when he died. How can a dead brain being transplanted?


So the whole brain transplant idea is unlikely, but if the writer indeed go with this then this is a big joke of a drama.

Imo something indeed must have been done to BR's brain....something can be explained later on. That is my big hope.

So I will just wait how the story will be unraveled in next episode before making any more assumptions...I have made numerous of them lol.

They still waiting for forensic result i guess...

Oh my have you watched the latest episodes? My brain hurts lol.

My heart breaks into pieces knowing that DS sis should go through all that horrible things. Like it's really beyond evil what happened to her.

And though now all hints literally pointing toward JJ...I still think there's more to the story. This whole orderal involving more than just a killer.

I have strange feeling thar this drama will have a mindblowing twist that will not just shocking but unbelievably living up to its title....beyond evil.

Have a great weekend....

Very well put.

*Edited* - since ep 12 was aired and we get to know the truth I edited my comment by deleting all other irrelevant parts that might misleading to everyone who'll watch the drama later on.

But why would he went that far?he has no motive back then to ran over her body multiple times, remember the forensic doctor said, she was ran over and over again to make sure she never survives.

She already weak, lost her fingertips must have caused her blood loss too, and if she was hit and ran over once it could be enough to kill her. She must have been dead when JJ's mom and then the chairman arrived there.

The question is now....was she already died and ran over many times when they arrived? Or it was done later?

For one to do that over and over, the person must be driven by a vicious anger or hatred, so that person must be someone who close to her or know her well. And that chairman doesn't seemed to have either motive for doing so to her.

I think the cam focusing on SJE's trembling hands noticed by Dr.Lee.

If anything related to dog is that Jae Hoon drawned his father's dog. And SJE also has flashback of her choking Jae Hoon when he tried to burry his little bro alive behind the dog's grave.

And SJE said to Dr.Lee that the dog was saved by her son, so she might be recalling the memory of that event in her mind, one was a dog killer and another a dog's life saver, hence her trembling hands.

But he got my utmost respect. One interesting character....and Shin Ha Kyun man, he's incredible...I just love his every expression...and that killer smile oh my....you can't help but falling in love with that...

Their chemisty is one of the best if not the most incredible i've seen so far.

Like you really dislike each other but also can't get enough of each other presence all the time. Like wow that's how best friends are made.

Yes, it is a very touching scene. It always touching me such way of paying respect to the dead, you're sad but you also cherish each and every moment shared with that person. And how they know embrace HJW as one of their own in that way....that's really warm good bye and welcome.

It started with LDS was his prime suspect in that illegal immigrant women cases, and then when he met him, as he disliked him for his behaviour, but then he was intrigued by him...LDS layered characters at some point confuse him and though the two of them very different, HJW just want to understand why LDS behave like that, he wanted to know what's in his minds, and how to crack him, all just to prove the man's guilty but then along the way he subconsciously attracted to LDS, you know two opposite poles attracted each other...it's like they completed each other...and though they're different both of them a nutcase in their own way lol....and they just a perfect match for being partners...

But the forensic said the severity of her multiple bone fractures indicated that she was ran over and over until she died. So it wasn't just a mere accident, it was brutal murder. But the question is, could JJ did that to her?

I think the question is refering to why the cross killer didn't kill CK when he was at it. He couldn't be that sloppy to not make sure that his victim is dead before staging his body like that to be saved later on.

And he wouldn't asked YH personally to save CK. Remember he was alone with YH and asked him to save CK because CK was in fact YH's life saver once?

Or could it be he intentionally making CK in a vegetative state because he personally knew him? Unlike his other victims. As a severe punishment for what CK did to his father? If BR is JH and he knew that his father is HH.

But the problem is how could he make time to do that to CK while he's been with the other friend all the time preparing and even eating...while CK was in different area of the prison at the time?

If JBR is the real cross killer then he must be very efficient with time, and he can kill and staged the body in a very short/limited time. There was a scene when the killer was hunting for a weaker victim because he was not on a good mood?he was in the car browsing the street. BR doesn't own a car though it also possible that he was in a taxi. But the last incidents of kidnapping and murder of KMC's priest bro and the attack of BY really in short amount of time. How can he manage the timr for all that. When the kidnapping happened he was in hospital and limping. He couldn't be faking a limp since he was hit by a car and doctor couldn't be helping him to fake the limping and it happened in broad daylight in a playing ground. He could sneak out of the hospital using taxi too but it just doesn't seem possible. And he was here and there during the live show helping KMC, but then again the time is very tight even got himself fell down over again when chasing the delivery man. How can he managed to kill the priest in that very thight time and even struggled with BY for sometimes. And how in the very short time he could run from that church, changing clothes, and get a taxi to arrived there in time also, I mean the whole ordeal happened in a very short time. And remember the killing happened on real time, in a live show and BR was at the police station at the time, except he left early and rush to do all that live killing show. BR must be a very time efficient killer if he's the cross murderer. It is indeed possible if he's really good at managing time and also very efficient in his killin due to alot of practicing, but the thing is he couldn't calculate how KMC's ordering him around. It just seemed too efficient. But then again what's YH doing there in the scene? He was there when BR arrived. And it's really frustrating why YH didn't even try to reveal or even ask for KMC's help, why he had to take the matter into his own hands if he knew all along that BR is a serial killer? Why he didn't even do a thing to prevent BR to continue his murder? Why letting him time and time again?Why he was in BR house the day when BR's friend said BR's house could be bugged. I previously think YH is not thar crosss killer but idk his actions and behavior just don't add up sometimes.

Does anyone check on the cast list update.
That little boy in yellow coat now is on the cast list and listed as young Jae Hoon.

I'm shocked but not surprised. Now that JBR is having flashback of that little boy then JBR might be JH.

Now that I rewatch ep 8, JBR definitely asking HSJ about "if HSJ implanted YH's brain in his head)", it is either a mistranslation or a wrong term used by JBR that he couldn't differ between implant and transplant, or script error?Because if it is YH's brain then the correct term should be transplant. Implant is a non living device or material being put on or inserted in an organ. Anyway I still doubt about the whole transplant idea....because it could JBR's supressed memories...now we just have to wait until the aunt bring JBR's childhood pictures to confirm whether he's indeed JH or not.

Did he?Sorry I overlooked that one. Thank you for that.

And wow that info could be a big hint to anoter character that hasn't been introduced yet?

No the person HSJ was refering to when he asked Dr.Lee if he has found him? Wasn't a missing brother but the killer of his sister (I think he's feeling the excitement inside knowing Dr.Lee has no idea that the one who murdered his sister is none other than the man sitting in fron of him asking him that painful question).

I think that girl said to him was " if you let it live, you'll end up like that rat snake", "us that what you want?" Then we see the snake was lying like it's wounded.

The girl's expression is cold but somehow sad (since there's no new cast introduced we can only assume that the young girl was young CHJ - the little girl forced by HH to lure out the young lady in ep 1).

In ep 1, that little boy actually was fascinated when he saw how the little snake took the offense instead of being afraid of its predator. It wasn't what he expected it to be. Since the teacher asked about what's the snake's food?and just its name rat snake, he just so happened saving a little mouse that morning and then let the snake into the cage to be eaten to his surprise. The will of survival of that little snake indeed astounding, it's not just escaped unscathed, it wounded the snake.

I think that girl meant that the mouse will one day attacked him, the way it attacked the snake unexpectedly. Since the mouse defy the natural food  chain, the girl was trying to tell the little boy that the mouse was unnatural thing and will one day bite the hands that fed it. So she crushed it mercilessly.

If there's symbolic mean to that then the mouse is that little boy, and the predator is the real serial killer (could it be HH/HSJ), the boy (BR) will defeated HH and he will be crushed by CHJ in the end?

So don't play mouse nor play predator since in the end human is a better creature than both in the matter of survival. You can't behave instinctly like an animal, i.e predatory animal or even a little mouse that defy the logic, you're a better equipped creature, you have not just instinct but also better developed brain.
I think that's what the girl might want the boy to understand?  The mouse will bite you back one day because it's only live by instinct, so if the boy want to be like that mouse living by instinct, one day that instinct might consume him, and someone else must be there to put an end to him.

Imo to symbolise mouse as lab rat is just too common of symbolism. Here we are presented with a little mouse defying its nature. Like mouse naturally will run away seeing the snake, but this little mouse not just showing it is fearless, it showed a survival will power that's not just offensive, it's aggresive in the face of what by nature is its predator. The snake didn't even get a chance to make a first move when the mouse suddenly attacking it.

But it could be that mouse really symbolize that lab rat too because we HH sent Dr.Lee a pair of mouse. What could he wanted to tell Dr.Lee that there are two lab rats?and who was experimenting with those rats? HH or Dr.Lee? Because until now we don't know yet where's Dr.Lee body and why the investigation on his missing body is still not showed to us...I don't think that Dr.Lee was dead, Imo he was the one that experimenting with children and HH was once his work partner, it is only logic since how come SJE (HH's wife) also voluntarily joining the test (in ep one she expressed her worry to HSJ what if the fetus test result is psychopathic? And she was calmed down by HH, just right after that the police entering theiir front yard.

And since Dr. Lee now basing in UK and he's the one leading the result, in Korea and continuing in UK (even the husband of the pregnant lady in ep 1 went to help with experiment in UK)?

And the one sponsored the experiment/research is the government represented by that lady who seemed to be the current president now?she was the one sent by then president to oversee the result of that prenatal genetic test bill, which was later dropped due to slight won on voting? Because of the assembly chairman decided to vote against the billl.

If not that, then HH must have his own illegal experiment and in the process he exploited children not just as a bait for his hunting games but also grooming them to be psychopathic...a.k.a nurturting them before leveling up with breeding method?
Could it be that HSJ knew BR's father (if we assume that BR is the baby of that other pregnant lady, since her husband was Dr.Lee's work partner as well) and was conducting the experiment in Korea with him, if that is the case then HSJ might know the test result that the baby is psychopathic and he could be the one to suggest the husband to lie to his wife about it. Too bad the man died in accident and all the things happened when Dr.Lee was being called back to Korea, so the lady finnaly knew the truth. That's why he sent that two mouses to Dr.Lee, that both fetuses actually are result of either one of them experiments? So it could be a warning or a threat to Dr.Lee.

So CHJ even she might be fighting it hard to be free from whatever it was she endured during her being used by HH, she's not just consumed with guilt and remorse but also the will of fighting back and to survive. Or could she still be the exploited child of HSJ? Another nurtured psychopath? We're yet to see it.

Watching ep 7 and 8 carefully, the idea of brain transplant couldn't be right.

1. JBR was in operation room when BY was trying to kill SYH. If SYH's brain being transplanted to JBR (even it is even possible, the operation is a very risky with 99% chance of failure than a success biologically, and the neurosurgeon couldn't be just anybody who never performed any surgery on human brain for 20 years, that is the most absurd thing to comprehend), SYH must be in the operation room with JBR and he must be alive (his heart) because without blood that carry oxygen and nutrition the brain needed, then it will be im state.of failure, means it's dead, can't be used at all for anything).

2. We only presented with BY's flashback of when she was trying to kill SYH, two persons came in (one wearing doctor's coat the other one in black), they were just standing there talking about SYH's will power to live and it's a pitty as if they're planning on doing something with him, and then one said JBR operation must be successfull (all of this happening while JBR was being operated on).

3. It was when JBR operation was done and the doctors were having a press conference about it when someone came to inform the doctor speaker that SYH was dead. And he thus informed the press, and interestingly he said that SYH died of septic shock, not due to a suffocation. Either way, SYH brain in no way can be used since he's brain is in organ failure a.k.a dead status. Unlike others, brain is one sensitive organ, it can't live without enough oxygen supply. Septic Shock causing a low blood pressure due to widen infection in internal organs, and the cause of septic shock is blood clots are formed that blocking the blood stream to important organs, that means oxygen flow to brain also blocked that's causing organ failures hence the term shock. If SYH died of suffocation means his brain also must be in failure status.

4. Even they manage to do the operation transplanting one or some parts of SYH brain into JBR's, is it even possible do perfom another surgery after one is done in a very short time? If the operation is done while SYH was still alive (in coma), then there's no trace of him having head surgery, and it is a very difficult surgery could time hours and hours of surgery, how come there's no such sign on SYH's head?

5. We see the scenes when SYH's mom crying in front of dead SYH, his head was just fine, his hair still intact (brain surgery requires hair to be shaved clean).

6. And not to mention even in a fiction, there must be donor consent in regards to organ transplant. Necause it's done in hospital with the press all around waiting. And the doctors who performed the surgery must be the licensed ones and they need assistants. How can they do that in that hospital if it's HSJ who performed the surgery? He couldn't do that alone and too many witnesses of illegal surgery is also impossible except it is an illegal hospital. Or could it be it is the order from higher ups to do secret surgery unknown to public?but for what?it just make no sense.

If BY then follow the men out of the room, they couldn't be leaving SYH behind if they need his brain to be transplanted, so she must have seen more than just the talk in SYH's bedside. How can she said and be sure that it's HSJ who performed the surgery? And why didn't she tell JBR if indeed SYH was brought into his operation room?

So it could be just BY's perception of the event, how does she knew that the doctor is HSJ doing the surgery, she's not even in the operarion room. If she saw him entering the room doesn't make him the one who does the surgery. I mean BY might not know it but really the idea that the hospital letting a criminal, a serial killer at that to do the surgery is already a crazy idea in itself, not just that it is a serious insult to medical world.

I think HSJ is just playing JBR, provoking and challenging him. JBR just confused with all that memories, it could be that some of the doctors there are HSJ's cohorts, and they might be doing something with JBR's brain, but they might be doing some 'experiment' like brain stimulating and all....see even stimulating a part of brain is not an easy task because it will affect other parts of the brain in the same region, because it's like a circuit, one leads to another. But anyway it's not brain transplant...it's just how JBR vent his frustration and confusion. It's common outburst like " what do you do to me?" "What do you do with my brain?", "what do you put in my brain?"....because JBR thought those vague memories aren't his because he'a informed about SYH and it could be as the doctor said, at this rate his memory is still a mixed up between things which he experienced or things he perceived visually & auditory, or things he witnessed. With times it can be distinguished. He's now just confusing because some of the memories that flooded in now are of those supressed memories, or memories that he intentionally hid/bury, and now he couldn't control them. And confused that with other's memory. HSJ is just toying with him because it will take awhile for JBR to realised that due to that amnesia he's now bring his true self. Now whether he's a psychopath killer or a genius let's just see how it will go.

If the writer go with brain transplant idea then this is a whack job of a drama.

The doctor could be someone's cohort. Either he's been updating HSJ or somone else like the lady from the blue house?

Because now there's hint that someone in government is aware or might be involved in secret (possibly illegal) experiment with brain? It isn't clear yet but someone or some people definitely is watching JBR closely now how he will turn out to be.....

HSJ is a master manipulator and exploiter...he definitely knew who JBR is (he has people working for him outside) remember in ep 2,the detective Kang asked SYH that someone wanted to meet him? It happened at the same time when Dr.Lee supppsedly called SYJ to meet. And then we still not get to see what's being talked about between SYH and HSJ.

There are lots of things in my head lol and wr're just hit ep 8 lol...this drama is driving me crazy, but in a good way.

Let's see if this will go with Brain Transplant thing or not.

No I don't confuse the two, it is your assumption. Being not a psychologist doesn't mean I can't know a thing or two, the same goes for you, I respect that you havw your own opinion

And who said that psychopatch can't understand the complexity of emotions? People have this misconception all the time. Actually psychopath are really good with understanding what others are feeling, they can understand why someone feeling pain or hurt or joy or whatever, but they can't emotionally register to it. Most of them are very good at reading people and they can read people's emotions and they can use that to exploit a person psychologocally. Especially if the psychopath is a criminal. You know why psychopath can mimic or faking the emotions they couldn't feel? Because they learn to understand it before mimicing it to make it convincing. Trying to understand something doesn't necessarily means you have to feel it. And to say that they can't understand the complexity of emotions, aren't we all like that? We can never really understand the complexity of our emotions.

That is why also a psychopath usually very charming and charismatic because he/she can understand person or people around him/her (while it's basically not necessarily a bad thing either). But it is different thing with their ability to feel the complexity of humans emotions.

And since you think I confused psychopath and sociopath, sociopath doesn't do that with people, they tend to be really clear that they have no interest in other people or their lives, and to pretend is not their cup of tea.

Anyway you're right it's not a place to discuss this, so yea I stop it here.

Have a good time ;)

Physical pain and emotional pain are two different things. And psychopath can feel an emotional pain too, they just have different experience of pain and they just have different treshold than common people. Pyshical pain is another story, even of one can't seemingly feel physical pain, it doesn't mean they can't feel it altogether, it just the treshold to feel it is on different level than normal.

Except the the part or parts of brain that control them is totally in shut down mode or severely damaged, it wouldn't be possible for them to feel nothing at all not even a sensation.

And psychopathy is a spectrum, in a way we're all psychopathic but again on different levels.

Yes, even one tiny percent is a possibility, look at the small percentage of notorios evil psychopaths, some have a high level of IQ.

Having said that of course psychopath and genius are two different things, one is a psychological disorder and one is exceptional intelligence ability.

Though it is a rare thing, and in wide population the percentage is almost zero but it is not zero. There's always someone with psychological disorder and also having an exceptional intelligence capability.

And yee true that many people if not most of us always have a misconception about what is psychopath and what is a genius, worse even we conflate the two as the same.
And true that sometimes you can't differ a psychopath and a genius superficially...but in depth the difference is could be really stark. But that doesn't mean that a psychopath/sociopath couldn't have a genius brain at all...even it is a small probability mathematically it still a probability....thus making it scientifically possible ;)