genie234

No he wasn't entertaining a relationship but Tian did to some extent go see Jiu because Jiu gave him butterflies and Jiu made him feel good from the first day he met. We clearly see this time and time again throughout the series. We see this when he ignores Jiu's request not to see him, when they were flirting in the garden and the mother caught them. All their scenes has them having a moment. The drug event was definitely a catalyst to that materialising to something undeniably romanatic, but they had so many connecting moments.

I really love this show though, I love when characters are complex and I can discuss them with these people. I too wish we get a happy ending for Tian and Jiu. Tian so deserves it.

Idk if I totally agree that Li should just be open with Song but it's definitely an option. The other thing I was just thinking about in relation to where Li behave is the idea of family legacy and how it's very important to a lot of people. It's something that I can't relate to, but having an heir is a cultural expectation in a lot of places. Family expectations are less of a thing here in the west but I've noticed its very big in the east and the fact that in some cultures, kids are meant to give everything for family. I watched this Korean soap 'Life is Beautiful' which features a gay couple (I only watched their storyline). One of the couple had a mum who would not accept him and harassed him for over 30episodes to turn straight to stay in the family. It was really well done, very painful, but eye opening to watch.

Yeah I think her reasoning is sort of a plot hole. Li and Jia are not stupid, so I thought they would play the game much smarter. They should of made Madam Li's motivations for her to trick and trap Tian in marriage.

Yes fear is a good word. I've been struggling to put in words why greed doesn't fit but the best way I can explain it is that it is generally used for someone who is monopolising some resource that prevents others from obtaining that resource. For it to be greed the goal post has to be constantly moving. In my head I hear it used in the fashion such as "Don't be greedy leave some for others." Implying the person has already has their slice of pie. I think ambition is also a more appropriate word to go alongside fear, as each person she murders doesn't result in any gain of power, it has always been reactive and protective of a goal.

Is this show a recommended watch? the rating is so low but I know strongberry has made some really good shows in the past.

When I say entertain it, I mean Tian doesn't compartmentalise his thoughts and feelings for his attraction to men and Jiu very well. Especially for something that can get you killed in this time period. He on many occasions lets these feelings consume him. He lives very much in this middle zone. All those events and motivators are true but his feelings for Jiu was also a partial motivator that they got close. (Probably saved his life since Jiu didn't kill him) But maybe being consumed by his emotions is just in his nature. He's got a big heart and he's always been mouldable (unlike Yang) and not very headstrong.

Greed doesn't feel like the right word to me. To me it implies something different but maybe I'm wrong. The reason she is so set on him in the head position I don't fully understand. Her reasons are to maintain her position as first wife (Chan get's it if Yang becomes the leader), for her own pride and motivations, and for the benefit for her son. Personally I still can not relate to that given her actions.

Side note she 100% does care if it comes out after he gets the position. Right now Tian is at cross-roads, he either gets married to a woman or gets the position or life ends up badly for him. I think Madam Li plans to trap Tian down the former path and lies to him to convince him.

Also I just want to make sure you know that, I'm not excusing Madam Li's behaviour. Excluding the morality of her behaviour, her own personal desires and murders have completely clouded her judgement to this and is sending Tian down Zhang's path.

I'm curious what do you see as Tian's possible outcomes in life? Mine are:
1. Conforms marries a woman and kid - in any case he should also get the head position.
2. Runs away with when he finds his love
3. Ostracised by family and potentially kicked to the street.
I don't think he will really have the ability to stay in this family and be single or be DL. I think he will still be encouraged to marry.

Oh I am corrected, okay I should of tolerated their plot a bit more then. They grew up together which make it still kinda weird. But yeah History 4 was so problematic. I stopped at around ep 9 but I came back to the mydramalist comment section to get the tea.

Yeah it is, this is complete speculation but I think the doctor somehow survived with the antidote he created and probably will save Jiu. That's the only way he lives. Madam Li is probably surprised he's alive and probably looks like she's trying to poison Jiu with the tea. Mr Ma is still alive surprisingly so. Madam Li and Jia aren't very good at killing. So I think Mr Ma has retaliated with the Song family and the family has to go into hiding.

My guess is that Tian is trying to comfort his father since they have lost everything.

https://twitter.com/Linho10697604/status/1592543507293810690

thanks hahaha, I can only get through these shows if I skim watch because I will die from the suspense but sometimes this means I miss something important or don't get the full context of a scene

Yeah most had step brother plots but I think the volleyball one History 2:Crossing the Line had a half brothers couple side plot, if I remember correctly.

Thank you I think this is a fantastic analysis. This drama is fantastic but I think it definitely went wrong with how Tian was this open about his sexuality and mentally entertained it in this time period. It would have made more sense if it was set in the 70s onwards. I think gay men didn't have the luxury in those days. They could only run away from home or conform to society. Most probably conformed.

Also reading the replies I agree with you. Greedy isn't the right word for Madam Li. If greed is a part of it, it is definitely not a huge motivator.

spoiler if you scroll down you will see a comment about one31 accidentally releasing the preview of ep 16 instead of 15 you should watch it if you're curious.

That is fair I think he may resonate with this storyline. I think a lot of gay people find that BL has poor representation of themselves as they often remove the struggles of being gay and we seem to get the two straight guys falling in love trope. But I do find it a good escape from the struggles of being gay.

GMMTV doesn't really use cheating or sleeping around but 60% of their series have had really poor plots. They do like the misunderstanding trope a lot though (where the couple thinks someone has cheating but they haven't). I think he will enjoy this too. It's a brilliant series, with many excellent themes.

I'm not sure, we will find out next week. I don't think he will die. Remember the antidote for the beetle thingy exists. I can't remember if Tian's father got it from the doctor. A happy ending?? I feel like a happy ending is not possible for them unless they run away, but I am rooting for them.

Is it weird that this show really resonates with me? In some ways I feel like Tian. Also, Madam Li kind of reminds me of my mum. Of course my mum would never do any evil things. I love how it captures Tian's struggles of being gay and feeling different and alone but it's also covers parental love and wanting the best for your kids and wanting to protect them from the harshness of this world.

Spoiler if you haven't watched up ep 14.

The fact Madam Li tried to kill Yang was the thing that did things for me. Unforgivable, when honestly Yang has been a key reason why Tian is still here today.

Initially I really loved Jia and Madam Li because they were conniving and their intentions were because they loved Tian, but in the most recent episodes they have done so much evil I'm not sure if Madam Li really loves Tian. I feel like she loves her son but not Tian. Her son being the guy who marries a wife and become head of the family. The worst part about it is that in her desire to "protect" her son by doing all these bad stuff, Tian's spirit will be crushed.

I don't think the whole problem for Tian was that he told Mr Ma. Most of the betrayal was that he was Ma's subordinate which was the reason he got close to Tian. I'm not exactly sure what was his reasoning for telling Ma, if it was his siblings or he hoped this would allow him and Tian to live happily together or he wanted to save himself. It was probably all three, but I don't think it was awful. Remember at that moment Tian was practically wanted to run away from everything with Jiu.

This aint the History series

This show is so trashy what was the whole last scene. I couldn't stop laughing at the ridiculousness of that whole fight scene. Oh well...

But that series hasn’t come out yet