littlebluemonster

It's definitely disheartening to see that kind of comments and nothing justifies them, but I hope the team doesn't get discouraged. There are still gonna be haters regardless, so hopefully the team is able to filter out pure hate from constructive criticisms.

I did come across posts about how some fans felt they were taken advantage of, and also how they think MA were taken for granted. To be fair, if so many people felt that TT didn't feel like the main couple when they were made to be perceived as one, then something definitely wasn't done right, and some people weren't being completely honest. This doesn't excuse any disrespectful behavior from fans toward the creators, but I also get their frustration.

I think it's actually quite obvious that TT didn't get the same meticulous treatment for wrapping up their story compared to LertRan. Or maybe the decision makers had a different picture in mind. There really wasn't any loose ends for LertRan's story because it was wrapped up quite seamlessly, while for TT's final journey, viewers and fans had to make so many interpretations on their own based on things that weren't even shown. And this alone says a lot. There isn't much that's canon for viewers to use as a strong point of argument because of lot of things were too subtle and left way too open for interpretation.

Though, regarding this, some people liked it, some people didn't. So to each their own. But I think the dissatisfaction from fans are also valid, because (at least from what I've come across) it's not like fans are asking for an unrealistic ending, or adding scenes that don't make sense. If TT's final journey was given as much attention to detail, I don't think the team would've gotten so much backlash.

Just like how I think we should praise where praise is due, if the team did mess up, then they should also expect being called out. Respectfully, of course. And as I've mentioned, a work can be a masterpiece, but it can also be lacking in certain ways. Two things can be true at once.

I can see how the creators and the cast are all very passionate about this work. There's no doubt in that. And MA wouldn't mind sharing more screentime with others or let others take up more screentime if it makes the project better, and I think that's admirable. I think the team was bold enough to challenge something new, and I think that itself is commendable too. But whether the treatment TT got for their ending really made it better or not, I feel that it's debatable, especially when Trin suddenly became so misunderstood due to the lack of nuance for his actions when an extra few seconds of him (which Apo perfectly portrayed how suffocated and helpless Trin felt at that moment) could've made viewers connect with him even more.

Regarding some of the VO in the teaser, I do feel the same. But for the scenes like Trin outside EoE, and the origamis, they can take away the VO and the scene would still carry its meaning and purpose. Except for that apology at the end, because it didn't quite match the look on their faces.

And to be very honest, only giving that apology now after all that's happened actually feels forced and not genuine anymore, unless it was really planned initially. Because like you said, it feels newly recorded. But the scenes were less likely to be newly shot, which means they were part of the original plan, just that they weren't used. But idk, maybe it's just me. Some fans think the apology scene is still very much needed, but I think Trin's scene and the origamis, or at least just Trin's scene outside EoE, would've been perfect for the "show, don't tell" approach instead of including the apology. Because those two non-dialogue scenes were enough to explain everything if they had been included in the final cut.

After watching that fancon teaser, I'm seriously gutted about how the team messed up TrinTanwa's story, especially the connection audiences could've had for Trin, in the final episode.

Trin's deep sigh after he saw the state of Tanwa, and the struggle on his face before he decided to turn around and leave. THAT WAS SO IMPORTANT. It was only a few seconds. It could've saved us from so many misunderstandings, and that would've shown Trin being more in character while also struggling with his own issues and choosing to isolate himself. That few seconds alone could've given context and nuance to so many things and connected so many things together. That would've made Trin seem less cold when he told Sucha that Tanwa had to face his problems alone. That would've shown that Trin actually still cares for Tanwa, but he just couldn't. And Trin's words to Sucha would've made more sense, and allowed audiences to empathize with both Trin and Tanwa. Because the problem with the final cut had viewers split into team Trin and team Tanwa, with those who feel bad for Tanwa being mad at and disappointed in Trin for being so cold, and those who feel bad for Trin insisting he had no reason to be there. But showing that Trin had a moment of struggle would've brought both teams together rooting for their happy ending.

Those few seconds were what I was hoping for. Not Trin being by Tanwa's side and them healing each other together—impossible. Not Trin immediately forgiving Tanwa—illogical. But just something to link these things together. It's good that some things were left for interpretation, but when too much is left for interpretation, it creates a lot of misunderstanding about a character. And cutting those few seconds of Trin right outside Echos of Euphoria was a bad call to me. Trin defenders had to keep explaining why Trin acted that way and interpret everything on their own. People had to form their own ideas about the whole situation for it to make sense and to empathize with Trin's decision. This isn't even a "show, don't tell" situation because they didn't even show it.

And then the boat origami that seemed to still be with Trin in Paris? That would've added more weight to Trin and Tanwa's reunion in Paris instead of it feeling so jarring. That would've bridged the gap for those two years Trin stayed away from Tanwa. That would've made Trin's suppressed longing for Tanwa canon and hit even stronger when Tanwa suddenly showed up. That would've saved Trin defenders from having to explain how Trin still loved Tanwa and didn't move on from him. That would've saved Tanwa defenders from being mad at Trin for treating Tanwa that way and not apologizing.

Ah... and that apology. I don't know if they only added that after all the complaints, or it was actually intended but got cut in the end, or that might have been one of the versions for the Paris reunion scene they shot and decided to go with the vanilla sky one. The vanilla sky one was indeed more beautiful than the night view, especially after Trin and Tanwa had the mural painted and talked about it. It carried more meaning so I agree with that decision. And after rewatching the reunion scene, Trin does seem to stroke Tanwa's face where he punched him, so there's that little detail I can appreciate. In fact, if Trin's dilemma and the origami were shown, the apology wouldn't even feel needed already. But because both scenes were cut, showing no apology scene only made things worse. And viewers had to tell themselves, "Trin probably apologized to Tanwa later on." or "I'm sure they would've talked things out eventually."

A lot of things in the final episode surrounding Trin and Tanwa's relationship were left so ambiguous that their happy ending together wasn't fulfilling. To be honest, I think their scenes from Ep1-7 were all done beautifully. Their screentime may have been short, but it was always memorable. And it worked at the time, because the pace of their relationship was always slow, and there weren't exactly major conflicts, or at least we had scenes of them together later on resolving those issues. But with Ep8, there wasn't. There was nothing much that were CANON for viewers to build on and interpret.

Trin is a beautiful character. He's a complex one, just as all the other characters in Shine are. But I feel that they may have cut a lot of scenes that could've given more context to Trin's character and made him less cold or out of character. Apo did a phenomenal job portraying Trin, but keep in mind, what's put out in the end could also ruin or fail to fully present what Apo was trying to convey. And that's such a shame.

I'm just a casual BL watcher. I only found out KP this year, and I'm probably just a casual MileApo fan because I don't exactly follow all their works. I watch everything regardless of the gender, but I'm very picky with the plot, that's why I don't watch that many BLs coz not many plots interest me. But even as a casual fan or watcher, I felt letdown by how Trin and Tanwa's story was wrapped up, so I get how those who've supported MA a long time must've felt. (Though, still doesn't justify any toxic behavior.)

Shine is truly an incredible work of art. It's the type of queer/gay series I hope to see more of. I thought KP changed what I thought of thai BLs, but Shine was a whole new level, that's why I end up caring about it so much. And in terms of story and characters, I'm definitely more drawn to Shine (even though I like mafia-themed shows, but let's be real, the mafia theme in KP was kinda like child's play but not to downplay the team's effort because I still think they did a good job with KP). But Shine definitely deserves more praises and I'm glad it's getting acknowledged in the industry. That said, I also think there's definitely room for improvement because when something is great, it doesn't necessarily mean it couldn't be better, or that they didn't mess up in certain aspects.

I'm just glad I haven't come across much toxic and rude content attacking the creators and actors, because I know it's really bad on some platforms. I think the actors, especially, of Shine all had a good grasp of their characters and how they wanted to portray them. Each of them, even down to Senam who played Nuch, studied their characters well. I don't follow BOC closely, and I don't know if certain things were done deliberately regarding the editing or the promotion. I've tried to watch as many of the interviews they did for Shine to get a better understanding of the whole production and also the characters. I believe everyone did their best even though the outcome may have been disappointing in certain aspects. I think respectful criticisms are important, but also don't forget to show support and give their deserved compliments.

You're right about this. Another thing that bugged me a little was how Victor got excited seeing Trin at the protest when he made Tanwa promise to keep Trin away. But I guess we could assume it was Victor's adrenaline rush and he thought they were in the clear already since nothing happened when he made his speech.

Thank you for hearing me out as well. Just one last comment on Trin and Tanwa's situation, you mentioned Tanwa hurting Trin by failing to commit to their relationship at first, and I totally get it. At the time, although I understood Tanwa, I thought it was unfair to Trin also. But the difference was, we got to see Tanwa make an effort to overcome that, and show Trin that he could commit. Unfortunately, this time when there was a chance for Trin to make an effort instead and fight for their relationship after finding out the truth, his chance to show that onscreen was robbed from him, as well as the viewers. And I think that's what's causing these misunderstandings and disappointment toward Trin.

While I think leaving enough room for interpretation is important, providing enough context to make certain things canon is just as crucial. Because interpretations can greatly differ, and it's evident in our discussion as well as this comment section. I think it's good that when some aspects are left ambiguous, it allows us to debate on their characters. But sometimes I feel that it's also a shame because it didn't do the character justice. But this is just my personal opinion, of course.

It was a pleasure having this discussion with you. Hope you have a great week ahead. See you around. :)

Haha it's okay. Honestly we needed a character mapping for this from the beginning. Because I also didn't realize Pracha was Dhevi's uncle until we were halfway through the series. I also had no idea Dhevi had brothers until she threatened Lert with them. And all this time I thought Nuch was Victor's sister until he told her to stop wasting time on him. 😅

She was just being plain selfish. While I agree she was just doing what she thought was best for herself during that era, with the limited power women had, it still doesn't justify her actions. Understandable? Surely. But acceptable? Hell no.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I do agree Trin's isolation was also his coping mechanism, and I can see his struggle now. But I also don't want to see them heal *together*, actually. I feel that being supportive doesn't necessarily mean you have to stay together, or literally say words of support or comfort. I guess Trin asking Sucha to take care of Tanwa was his way of showing care.

On second thought, I think the real problem here for me initially, was Trin's line to Sucha saying, "This is something he has to face on his own." Because the impression this line gave me at first, led me to interpreting the scenes later on building on that.

To be clear, I think neither of them are obligated to help each other heal from their trauma. Their time together did provide them with some comfort and sort of healed the surface. But to really overcome it, that's an individual job and effort. And I actually like that they both did. That said, I feel it was the choice of words that irked those who are upset with Trin's decision. Or at least, me. Lol.

If Trin said, "This is something WE have to face separately on our own" or "This is something he has to face on his own TOO," it would indicate that Trin acknowledges both their flaws in this situation. It would show that, even though Trin felt like he can never be together with Tanwa again or forgive him at all, he saw their past relationship as two of them as a whole. And using "we" or "too" shows him taking responsibility for that relationship. I'm not saying Trin has to forgive Tanwa there and then though, because that's obviously unrealistic and don't make any sense.

But using "he" alone felt more like Trin was so ready to draw the line with Tanwa at that point, like he was washing his hands of their relationship. It just sounded harsh, especially toward someone whom you claimed to love deeply and planned a future together.

Maybe I'm just being nitpicky on the dialogue. But I think even a slight change of a simple word could alter the context and tone entirely, and that's very important in storytelling. But I do agree that Trin's reaction to just leave was painfully realistic. I also want to stress that I do think Trin's reactions were understandable. But I feel that just because certain things are understandable, that doesn't naturally make them acceptable. But to each their own, of course.

Thank you for taking the time to discuss this with me and I really appreciate you sharing your perspectives on Trin. It did help me cut Trin some slack. 😆

Oh, sorry, I should've made it clearer. I meant Dao assumed Naran knew he didn't like women. Or at least since he found out he was gay, which I assume could be months already? But my point was more about Dao's assumption and not so much on when Naran realized he was gay, if it makes sense. I also think Naran only came to realization when he met Krailert as Klai Rung.

"Marriage is not a joke n should not be used as a tool as per our convenience" 😂😂😂 They can't be serious. Maybe they should tell this to Dhevi first.

If anything, I think Dhevi's the pitiful one here because she's just living in her world of lies, thinking she's got a perfect marriage. Truth is, she got nothing. If her child found out the truth in adulthood, the child would probably hate her for bringing them into this effed up family. Well, unless the child turns out being like her too, then.... 🙃

And about Dao's shoe slap....I honestly don't know. I'm sensing possible traces of homophobia in there, but Dao never saw Naran as someone who was on the same level as her, so the shoe slap felt more like a "I knew you were a peasant" and not "How dare you be a gay and cheat on me". If you get what I'm saying? Lol. Sorry I'm not that good with words.

Or it could also just be Dao feeling completely humiliated that Naran knew he didn't like women yet held onto her for so long giving her false hope, causing her to waste all that time, money, and effort on him. Or....it could be all of those or maybe either two, or maybe other reasons.

I don't think Dao's as manipulative and cruel as Dhevi, and Dao has more self respect compared to Dhevi because she knew dumping Naran was the right choice. Not for Naran, but for herself. So I definitely agree that Dao's far from being pitiful.

I feel you. I still get worked up analyzing or thinking about this final episode even though it's been almost an entire day 🫠

Bold of you to think Dhevi's brothers would let Lert keep the kid 🤣🤣🤣 jkjk

I beg to differ. Her kid may actually end up hating her forever. She brought an innocent life into this messed up family, which she thinks is "perfect". If Lert and Dhevi are such great actors they could convince their child they are truly a happy family forever, then good for the kid. Otherwise, the kid might just end up growing distant and hating their parents.

It was Dhevi's father who killed the actor. Dhevi only mentions her brothers now because her father's dead.

First half of Ep7 is still safe 😂 Just don't watch the second half. Lol

Thank you for your insightful recaps and analyses after each episode! Also love the humor in them. It's always so enjoyable to read your recaps.

Appreciating how villainous her character turned out to be is one thing, but thinking she did a good thing is another. How is forcing a gay man to stay in a marriage with her and impregnate her a good thing???? Just because he cheated on her? But she was the one who forced him into this marriage knowing he was gay.

Either those people weren't paying enough attention watching Ep8, or they just aren't in their right minds (and possibly subconsciously homophobic).

Omg you're right about her brothers!!!! Nice catch! This means she was just grasping at straws. Ugh, now I'm even more pissed. If only Lert told her to eff off and eloped with Naran, then her plan would've failed. 😫 But damn, she good at playing with people's minds. She knew Lert wasn't gonna risk it.

She did do what she did to save her orchestrated marriage. It's just that she did it out of bad intentions from the start 😬 She brought all that torturous lonely nights on herself. She's just continuing to live in her little lie, convincing herself she's got a happy perfect marriage. I'm sure life's gonna make her pay for it later on.

Dao and Dhevi both had the same view about keeping their men and putting up with their lack of attention and affection for years. Both didn't truly love their partner. They were just obsessed with the person they wanted them to be. Both of them had a higher status than their partner, so they got to *chose* their partner.

But I love the contrast between Dao and Dhevi. I didn't like Dao's family. Don't like Dhevi's either. But Dao gets one point from me because she knew she should just leave when she found out Naran was gay. However, this also got me thinking, would she have done the same if she and Ran were already married? Ah-ha...

Maybe this shows Dao and Dhevi are different. Or maybe....this just shows Dhevi was who Dao would've ended up becoming if Naran chose to keep quiet and marry Dao.