moonfolk

I think there was commotion about Yufan left but it was cut out by the director/production team. Qiqi knew about it and went to Qingya to talk and I think she knew it from Tomo.

EDIT: It's there in the More for Episode 9 (the scenes that didn't make out for the official Episode 9)

What is the reason? Because she chose Dinghao and not Muchen?

I am curious what are the charms that Muchen has that made him so popular to cnetz? He literally made two girls cried in sorrow.

His perseverance and all the supports from the housemates for him finally bear fruit 😍🎉

Thanks! For the first time I don't mind spoiler haha. Now I can watch with peace in mind and heart. Yaaayyyy <3

Yeah it should be Tomo. I see a guitar in the preview. Only Tomo, Qiqi, and Peng Gao that can play guitar, but we're shown only Tomo that's composing a song. I am still grinning now remembering how Tomo had to run away from Qiqi to keep his secret about composing a song for Qiqi LOL 😂

Yufan has to leave, she has no other choice 😭If she stays then she has to make confession scene while she has no feelings to anyone, not even to Muchen also now. She obviously doesn't want to do a forced confession to Muchen. So she can only leave. I hope and pray for the best for her!

Clarifying things is not wrong, but her behavior/attitude when talking with Qingya was the problem. Being straightforward is good but she came just too strong. Putting hands on hips, quite harsh on words and her way of talking, asking Qingya out to talk without letting Qingya finished her food first, all of those even before clarifying whether Qingya was wrong or not. No wonder later Qingya cried and felt wronged. The problem is not her being straightforward but her behavior/attitude towards Qingya. She should do that to Oscar, not Qingya. It's the problem between her and Oscar, not between her and Qingya. What the panelists said in their conversation is right on point. Just because Oscar couldn't answer her right away then she went to vent it on Qingya. And she didn't apologize to Qingya even after Oscar's confession when Qingya came to congratulate the couple. If only she apologized to Qingya at that time, it would end well and perfect and sweet. Confession and reconciliation. I was waiting when watching the scene when people came to congratulate them, "apologize to Qingya, apologize to Qingya, and all will be perfect" but oh well it's just my wish, she only lovey dovey with Oscar without feeling guilty to Qingya. She only asked Qingya if she was scary after their conversation, not apologize to her, or maybe that's her way to apologize, maybe. So I disagree with you that she didn't need to apologize. It's just that it's too late now because of the situation she faces now. If she apologizes, it will look as if she doesn't sincere because of the pressure from public. But if she doesn't apologize then it will look as if she's a shameless girl. It's a dilemma.

It's unsightful and made people who watch feel uncomfortable, so it's understandable that maybe Qingya's fans are angry. But she shouldn't get the hate comments or called names though. It's a problem but not that big problem that it's unforgivable as if she's a heavy criminal. I think now she learnt her lesson already to reign herself and not to be that impulsive.

I think the director cut/edited that scene to give the confession scene more impactful, from the quarrel but ended with confession. "Oh how romantic" is maybe what the director wanted the reaction from us but alas it ruined the confession scene instead because of the lingering unpleasant feeling.

But maybe they also didn't know how to cut that quarrel scene out even if they wanted, because there were so many interactions in between, like when Peng Gao went to Qingya and comforted her, if there is no that quarrel scene then how to explain why Qingya cried? If they cut it all out except the confession scene, the dialogue in the confession scene couldn't be explained either because it won't make sense without the quarrel scene.

At least I am glad that this comment section is quite tamed, so it's still enjoyable to read comments from others. I am really agree with you that they should just focus on their favourite casts instead of badmouthing other casts. Korean dating shows' comment sections are very toxic and so full of hate comments on the participants.

IMO, no restriction and they're allowed to get to know other people. They locked in on the first person they like because that person reciprocated their approach. You can see that Qingya didn't reciprocate Tomo's approach because she liked Oscar. Oscar also didn't reciprocate Qingya. So it's not true that they're not allowed to know other people.

The vibe got tense when Yutong wanted to know Peng Gao because almost everyone thought that she chose Mi Die at that time and it's clear that Peng Gao was interested in Qingya. When she unexpectedly chose Peng Gao for the dance/ballroom, of course Mi Die got hurt because he also thought that Yutong chose him and they had a good relationship at that time. Yutong often worked overtime and came home late so her time to explore and chat with the others was limited (and also at the cost of Mi Die's feelings). She chose Mi Die at the end rather than explore because she's only interested in Peng Gao and Mi Die and Peng Gao didn't reciprocate her.

The panelists have their own favourite couple or the people that they want to match and support so it's normal that they want the participants to lock in fast, like one of them supported Tomo and Qiqi even before they became couple. Just like how the viewers want this person and that person to be together and ship this couple and that couple.

Chinese Heart Signal's direction is more to heartwarming and inspiring, so they're very rarely have "drama" in it, unlike the Korean one. I think the show is edited like that because they're trying to follow the Chinese government policy to try to entice the citizens to have relationship and get married.

However, if you want to search for the most "drama" out of all the seasons, I think it's S3 because one of the participant was very obsessed with one of the other participants and acted quite hostile to the other participant that also had the same interest. But imo, S3 is also the most unenjoyable out of all the seasons because they have to edit out two of the participants because of the scandals that they made and the editing quite impacted the show because that made the screentime of some participants reduced a lot due to the interaction with those two participants.

On the other hand, if the "drama" that you meant is heart fluttering, most people really like the "drama" in S6 and S2.

I didn't talk specifically about YW or the others. What I see is the rules and interviews are very similar to Transit Love / EXchange. The difference is that in EXchange they can't date their ex while here they off course can't date their sibling. It's as if Transit Love / EXchange that only changes the skin. You and the OP are right that casts hold important role, but IMO not only the casts, but the PD also holds important role. She can make rules that don't have potential to create conflict/drama if she really wanted to make a family-oriented show. The Truth or Dare section is the example. The participants can't refuse to answer and their questions and answers can make the situation tenser, dark, and bleak hence the conflict and drama. As you said that we can't predict how the casts will behave, but the PD can make rules to prevent and steer the casts from the possibility of acting/behaving in an undesirable manner, and make the show sweet and bright. That's my opinion.

IMO, it's not the matter of casting only, but the PD also. As long as the PD is still trying to make the show with Transit Love / EXchange style, whatever the concept even if it's family-oriented, IMO it will always ended up with messy endings no matter of the casts. One or more of the "green flags" will still become villain to create dramas. I think Korean dating shows tend to create dramas for rating. The messier it becomes the better it is for them. It will be the talk of the town. IMO, only 19/20 that was good and ended quite well.

Sigh .. in the end you still don't understand and keep accusing me. You cleared a small part that you misunderstood but then added new things.

"I hate hate HATE how YW pulled aside ChoA for another convo. "Let's do it again" bro WHAT?! Have some respect!" <"-- you see how glaring and eye-catching it is with all the capital and marks? You're "screaming" there emphasizing your hate.

If it's only "I hate hate hate how YW pulled aside ChoA for another convo. "Let's do it again" bro what? Have some respect." the tone will be different and I won't comment on it even if the hate is still there.

But you glossed it over and wanted to talk about your positivity of Patricia? Still don't understand?

There are so many hate comments in this comment section about YW but do you see that I don't reply to all of them? Seems you're even annoyed that I replied to other people's comments. You denied what I said about "join us or leave us alone. if you want to join you're welcomed. we don't interested in debate and only welcome those who agree with us" but then now you talked about these chocomint and anti-chocomint which is basically the same thing. Better you look at yourself first how hypocritical you are before accusing someone else.

"Look, it's fine if you like Young Woo and are a fan of him, but there really is no good excuse for the way he engages with people." <-- You're busy trying to make me saying things in your way. But always find excuses for yourself.

You can just say "I don't know whether you like Young Woo and are a fan of him, maybe not, but in my own personal opinion and perspective, there really is no good excuse for the way he engages with people. He gave an arrogant vibe to me, maybe not for you, but it is for me." and then stop there. No accusation, clear explanation, and thing will stop there. Don't just keep accusing someone and try to point how they should say things, retrospect yourself first. Even if you don't like my first comment, if you don't reply accusingly like that and then went on with other things, this won't escalate to protracted arguments.

You have the right to post your opinion here. But it also gives right for others to reply to your post, just like how you replied to other people's comments.

So I will give new advice:
if you don't want someone else to reply opposite comment of yours then next time please put "DISCLAIMER: This is my personal opinion and perspective. Please respect it. I don't accept any debate of opposite comment of mine."

But fine, since I already said that you can think of me as you wish then I will keep my words. What I find funny is that you're busy bashing me about my advices but you actually didn't keep doing what you advised me. Just because I said that you finally did what you advised me in your previous last comment, you became vainglorious and felt self-righteous, and then forgot about your own advice. You really took the words from my mouth "very exasperating".

Since you agreed with my third advice though, let's do it. Let's stop here and agree to disagree. And don't come back to me again because of your pettiness like before.

We are a bit different about small details but basically have the same thinking. And can I give suggestion to edit your comment? It should be CA, not CH. CA = Cho A, CH = Cheol Hyeon (her brother).

I have to say that I like your last comment most compared to the other ones. You actually softened what you're trying to convey and explained it quite clearly without accusations too much.

(First, the definition of neutral is "Belonging to NEITHER side in a controversy." If Young Woo is the controversy, you literally cannot be neutral if you defend him. A "neutral" person would just watch the show and not bother engaging with a forum on one side or another. Defending someone is by definition NOT a neutral stance. That's why I said you're being hypocritical. If you are defending a castmember, that is not being neutral.)

I can understand now why you said that I was not neutral. So it's because our definition of "neutral" is different. For you being neutral is not siding with anyone while for me it's being emotionally detached from certain person when watching. I will just take what being said in scenes and not making assumption. We'll take YW as example. You're being judging and said that he lied and rude while I counterargument you with the reason why. I will say that he's not into JW in EP 14 and only after the secret date in EP 15 that he changed his mind as he said, but you will say that he lied and clearly was into JW before the secret date because the story that the PD made clearly "projected his mind". So from my POV, I just said what I saw there as it was with no assumption, but from your POV, because I said something that's opposite yours which in this case YW then you felt that I defended him and not neutral. That's all because of the definition of neutral is different. I understand now.

(And honestly, I do prefer you not being neutral. I just wish you would acknowledge it rather than using it to make your comments seemingly have more weight than the rest of us "emotionals.")

To be honest, I would prefer that I am not neutral and just join the hate train. It'll be more easier. But I always have the thinking that they're real human being that just because they're in the show shouldn't be judged red flag, liar, etc from some episodes and the story that the PD made. We don't know what happened behind the scenes. So many footages being cut out to make the story that the PD wanted. That's why I always try to be detached from everyone and just see it as it is. Off course that's not always working. Sometimes I still have favorite person and even couple to ship. But even if something happens and the ship sinks, I won't join the hate train and judging because of that. I will be sad but that's all. So I can't fulfill your wish and acknowledge that I am not neutral, because I really think that I am neutral in YW case, really sorry.

(To add to that, yes, you are quite forceful. Making several similar comments SPECIFICALLY to people calling out Young Woo to defend him is forceful. You could have easily just thought "these people are too invested" and moved on. But you felt a need to insert your opinion. Literally the response you made to my comment was "And how he spoke in a way that was not respectful of other people? Maybe your like towards Choa blinded you." Right off the bat, you were essentially telling me that I'm wrong with no room that my interpretation might be right.)

Ah so that's how you see it. Again, I tried to make an argument because what I saw was different from what the others said (or you in this case). And also that I was trying to find someone coolheaded that can argue without making assumptions even if our POVs are different. I can't understand the commenters that dislike or even hate YW. You said that I am forceful and the other commenter even trying to stop me from voicing my opinion and disagreement. So I can't say anything if I saw things differently from all of you? Or is it because I counterargument them replying their comment so they felt being attacked? Is this comment section a "join us or leave us alone. if you don't join us then you're not welcomed. we're not interested in debate, only people that agree with us" ? To be honest, "these people are too invested" didn't cross my mind. What I thought was that "these people are too judgmental", especially because there was not a solid matter of fact evidence shown. It's only circumstances created from the story that the PD made which is full of editing. Only after you said that you're being emotionally invested and that we should watch the show this way that I realized about it. But thank you for making me understand what you think.

"And how he spoke in a way that was not respectful of other people? Maybe your like towards Choa blinded you." <-- Because again, I don't see anything wrong with what YW did. In my first comment, I tried to understand it from your perspective. Because you said that you're CA's fan, and JY is my favourite, and I was angry with JH's manner and the way of his talking to JY, just like how you're angry with YW's manner and the way he's talking to CA. "I saw things differently from this person but he/she is CA's fan. He/she said that YW was rude when asking CA while what I saw was YW was nervous, not disrespectful, seeing how he played the coaster when asking CA because he's already rejected CA the previous night. I am also angry with JH's way of talking, probably because JY is my favourite. If JH was not talking to JY maybe I will just think he's rude but didn't feel angry? So maybe we both were being blinded because of our favourites?" IMO, my response are the exact opposite from what you felt. I tried to be considerate and not accusing. That's why I said "maybe", not "definitely", and then continued to give myself also as an example. But your reply then was emotional and straightly accused me as YW's fan and giving example about YW this and YW that and even went further with more accusations in the next replies. You latched to my words of being blinded and basically said "Yes, you're blinded, you're wrong, I am not blinded, I am right". Who is actually that didn't give room for another interpretation? What I saw in the replies was assumptions like CA tested YW, face of pure anger, etc. I didn't make assumption that's why I said that I saw CA was sincere in asking YW about that message because of the reasons that I already said which actually is a positive view of her. She's smiling brightly and looked like a curious girl. But you said that she tested YW which made her looked like a malicious and insecure and insincere woman which IMO is a negative view of her (which made me wonder when I read it because you said that you're CA's fan). But you insisted on it so be it and that's why I didn't mention anything about it anymore even when you're still insisted on it in your next reply. You said that I could just thought "these people are too invested" and moved on but did it cross in your mind that you can just think "He thought that maybe I am blinded just like him? No I don't think so but so be it" and move on?

(You continually were the one to keep negating everything I said. I said Choa was angry, you said she's not. I said Young Woo likes Ji Woo, you said he doesn't. I said Jae Hyung wasn't rude, you said he was. I said the show is clearly utilizing editing to craft a specific story. You said that's not what's happening.)

What you said is true that I keep negating everything that you said. Because as I repeatedly said like a broken recorder, I saw things differently from yours. And seems you forget one thing, you also keep negating everything that I said. That what an argument/debate is until agreement is being reached or they just agree to disagree. I got the impression that you only want me to agree with you and not keep counterargument you? But if you feel inconvenient because of the debate and my counterargument then let's stop it after this comment of mine. Let's just think of agree to disagree.

"I said the show is clearly utilizing editing to craft a specific story. You said that's not what's happening." <-- I think it's the opposite though? I said about it mentioning that they can't project someone's thinking. It's the story made/crafted by the PD that can either misleading or true. Because no solid matter of fact evidence provided to us, even until EP 15. It's only circumstantial. Because after the secret date and YW changed his mind, people will point it "Look. So it's true that he's thinking about JW when he saw the plushie. It's proven already. He's lying. The show can project someone's thinking." after seeing the "projection" and watched EP 15. That's what the effect that the PD wanted from the story. That's why I said to be coolheaded and neutral and take it with a grain of salt. It can be true BUT it also can be not true. And I gave Korean Heart Signal 2 as example. They misleadingly showed that participant A liked participant B most while actually A's heart was fluttered for participant C more. They already knew what happened completely but chose to make/craft the story like that. They intentionally made the story more about A and B instead of A and C. There was very little interaction shown between A and C. You insisted that they can project someone's thinking as if they know what was the participant thinking at that moment, and as I said it already, it's your right and I can't force you to think otherwise.

(You said you kept commenting because " I saw everything differently from what the bashings and wonder why they're thinking like that," but from my perspective, it felt more like you want to persuade me to your side of things. It felt like I'm having to defend my right to my view against your point. Yet, when I very clearly explain things, you dismiss my strongest points and claim I'm too emotional.)

It's the point though. You have the right to defend your view and I also have the right to defend my view. That's what debate is. I actually didn't have the intention to debate you in my first comment. I only gave my opinion and even gave leeway with "maybe" and not said "definitely". There is a benefit of doubt there. And if you feel like you don't have or want to argue, you can just say "I don't think so but we can agree to disagree" but instead you accused me like a machine gun so I took it that you're up for debate. You also already said that you're emotionally invested though while keep claiming that I am not neutral even after I was very clearly explain things and said repeatedly that I am neutral. I stopped midway of my comment explaining why I suddenly saw that we couldn't have a coolheaded argument and that the argument was going nowhere, not bothering to defend/explain myself against your accusations anymore, even deleted the "LOL" because someone pointed about it and I didn't have an intention to mock you. But then you came back to me arguing again.

(The fact that you still think I have a double standard on Jae Hyung and Young Woo makes me feel like you didn't actually seriously consider the points I put forward. If you did, wouldn't you think "oh, I guess by *your* standards they are different, but by *mine* they are not." That would be a somewhat closer to neutral take. That's what I mean by forceful. You are *very* forceful with your opinions. And now you're trying to say that Jae Hyung making eye contact with Ji Won on a DATE that he *asked* for is in any way similar to Jae Hyung not making eye contact with Ju Yeon when 1) Ju Yeon called *him* out, he didn't want that conversation, 2) the conversation was very uncomfortable for him because the only answer he can give her, the truth, is that he doesn't like her. She's essentially forcing him to say it out loud and there's no way to say you don't like someone that's not going to hurt, and 3) his feelings towards Ju Yeon, who he is not romantically interested in, are very different from his feelings towards Ji Won, who he is romantically interested in and likes.)

Just because it's JY that asked JH for a conversation that doesn't mean that JH could act like that. I have no problem with his honesty. I only have problem with his manner and the way he talked to JY. His manner was rude. Even if he didn't want that conversation, JY had the right to clarify to know clearly everything so she could have a closure. As I said, he could explain things to JY the way he talked to JW. He could say it clearly explaining things while talking softly and kindly and looked at her even if it's just a quick glance like what he did in secret date with JW, and not with a crumpled face. It would hurt definitely, I won't say not, but he could try to lessen/soften it with his manner so JY could ask for clarifications for things in her mind, but seems JY couldn't make things clear in that conversation seeing her questions in Truth or Dare. It's finally clarified clearly but surely in unpleasant way. So he's rude to the one he's not romantically interested and only kind to the one he's romantically interested? So when CA asked YW for the third conversation then he could act like JH because it's CA who asked for the conversation? I don't think so. Especially turned out later that CA wanted to clarify things to YW. Even CA found it uncomfortable when YW answered her question in Truth or Dare but didn't look at her and that made her questioned whether he lied or not. While CH said to YW to see his eyes in half jokingly manner, CA asked him seriously in Truth or Dare, so I admit he's being rude to CA at that time. But IMO, you don't apply your standard of YW to JH and not being fair. Because you implied that you're not being blinded hence what I said the double standard. And that you didn't actually seriously consider the points I put forward. So your standard is that you can dislike YW's manner but I can't dislike JH's manner? Don't you think you're the one being forceful here? And you intentionally ignored that I already said repeatedly that JY is my favourite and that I am MAYBE blinded and that I am neutral about everyone except for JY? What's your point talking about I am neutral or not in JY-JH case? So far, I only pointed your different treatment to YW and JH, your double standard, you treat them differently. I never said that you're right or wrong. I said that you're not consistent! I will say it in your way as your first reply to me. Look, it's fine if you like Jae Hyung and are a fan of him, but there really is no good excuse for the way he talked to Ju Yeon.

(I don't understand how these two very different situations can at all be compared. I would change my mind if your points are strong, but they're not strong to me. I would prefer if you just said "I don't like how Jae Hyung acts" instead of trying to make it some kind of objective thing that he's rude. Then I could just say, "oh okay, I guess you don't like that kind of behavior" and leave it at that. Then it would just be a preference issue between what we each prefer, rather than a difference on some kind of an objective truth.)

Man ... (or woman) ... That's what I ALREADY said repeatedly. "I don't like how Jae Hyung acts". His manner was rude. Is it still not clear? Instead of just saying, "oh okay, I guess you don't like that kind of behavior" and leave it at that as you claimed you will do, you defended him with your all and hence I said the double standard because of your different treatment for YW and JH way of talking.

(The fact also that you think I would be satisfied with what Young Woo did in the truth game doubly makes me think you aren't actually listening to my points. My whole issue with Young Woo is that his words and his behavior are arrogant and rude (from my perspective). He maintained that arrogance and rudeness in the truth game, so of course I would not like it. He already went around the house claiming he was "neutral"-- and I already said I didn't like when he did that. Isn't that the same thing he did, basically, in the truth game? This public announcement? If I didn't like it before, why would I like it now?)

Your point is that you prefer one strong punch against 100 weak punches. When I said that I don't like JH's manner when he talked to JY or in your word "how JH acts", you didn't listen to my points and twisted it to that I didn't like his honesty. I said that he could talk kindly to JY and soften what he said just like what YW said, but you said it's better to have one strong punch. Yes, off course you can dislike or even hate YW, it's your right, though I frown on it. I also will say that there was a moment when he's rude but that's when he didn't look at CA when he's answering her, not that he made it public announcement. Everyone has the right to know, not only CA, not only JW, but also including JH, even SS also given that she misunderstood YW and thought that he's interested in her.

(I also don't like how calculating Young Woo seems. In his interviews ep 15, he says the reason he asks the questions is not to hear Ji Won's answer, but to make everyone else aware of the situation. Yet everyone else is asking questions specifically for the person they like or for their sibling's benefit. It just honestly made my opinion of Young Woo drop even more. I'm not a person who is calculating in love. I'm also someone who believes that direct and clear communication is important to maintain healthy relationships. From the perspectives of what values I hold and what I'm sensitive too, I do not appreciate Young Woo's behavior in the show. That's just my perspective my opinion, which I keep saying.)

This is a new topic. So although I can explain my view, I won't comment on this. Since you seems don't like me to argue your statement. Also you already emphasized that it's your values that you're sensitive about and your opinion and perspective. And I also want to emphasize this, just because I have my own view, that doesn't mean that I say your view/perspective is wrong. What he did indeed can be interpreted in different ways.

(There are times in my previous comments, also, where I clearly say things like "The way you interpret Choa's question is different from how I interpret it," "That's just my perspective when watching both conversations he has with Choa. You, of course, can feel differently," and "If you don't read her expression that way, that's fine." I tried to make it very clear that these are *my* opinions and *my* interpretations, and *you* don't have to interpret it that way. I tried to hold my position while also not negating your perspective too much.)

I already explained about it above and you also already said that we have different perspective about it in the next reply. That's why I didn't mention anything about it anymore in my next reply after that about whether she tested YW or not. I appreciate your explanation here. So if I am not wrong until what I read here, you don't want to be burdened defending your opinion and perspective and hence don't like the debate. As I explained it already, in first comment, I didn't mean to debate you. I just wonder why your view was very different from mine and I asked what I don't understand, also gave my opinion/guess about why you thought like that. But it escalated quickly into a debate starting with your accusation in the first sentence in your reply and how you defended JH which was basically negating my perspective/opinion.

(I didn't like how when I give my interpretations, you essentially insinuate that they are wrong, yet when I bring up strong points (the difference between Choa and Ju Yeon, how Jae Hyung never led Ju Yeon on while Choa and Young Woo had a legitimate loveline, why do you feel it's okay for Ju Yeon to double check Jae Hyung's feelings-- which she admitted she already knew how she felt-- but not okay for Choa to double check Young Woo's feelings-- who gave her emotional whiplash by being into her for weeks and then doing a 180 suddenly, etc. etc.) you just gloss over or dismiss them.)

Here you made an assumption again. I never said or implied that CA couldn't double check YW's feelings. If you're talking about that "CA tested YW" then I already explained about it. When CA asked YW for third conversation and turned out that she wanted to clarify things, I approved it and supported her, because she often made assumptions and didn't clarify it, only kept it in her mind. She started to change when she asked about who sent the message about kimchi to CH and then also asked about what was the meaning of YW's message about peach in the third conversation. She didn't just make assumption and be quiet anymore. She went to ask and confirm it, and that's a good thing. We as viewer know that JH never led JY on BUT JY didn't know that. That's why she asked for a conversation with JH. She also already said that at the beginning JH seems to reciprocate her feelings, but suddenly JH changed. She wanted to know what was the reason and since when it happened, as you can see in the scene of Truth or Dare. Just because she felt that JH didn't interested in her anymore (in her view) doesn't mean that she couldn't ask for a clarification/conversation. And she didn't deserve to be treated rudely. You tried to use JH never led on and had romantic feelings for JY as an excuse to justify and defended his rude manner when talking to JY. In my view, YW also never led on CA. He just changed his mind when the time was almost over, and that's why he got so many hates. It's as if just because they spent a long time/weeks to know each other (and they rarely had a long interaction because CA had to work until late night) then they must or being forced to have a commitment to be a couple. As if he didn't have right to change his mind. Yes it's unfortunate for CA and it's also legitimate for her to think and feel that it's unfair. But it doesn't mean that definitely YW lied, led on CA, and other accusations. It can be right and it can be wrong. We will never know. Only YW knows. People made assumption. Your points were not strong for me, and you twisted my points entirely just because I disagreed with that testing thing and you brought it over to JY case trying to defend JH. What is this "gloss over or dismiss them"? And I already explained about it again above so I won't make redundant explanation.

(And then now you bring up that Ji Won was unhappy with Jae Hyung's comments twice, yet Ji Won said some hurtful things to Jae Hyung, too. It seems that you're sensitive to some castmembers and not so sensitive to others. For me, I can look at Ji Won's hurtful comment and think "hmmm, maybe she thought it would sound funny but it just came out wrong." And Jae Hyung already clearly explained that he thought he was saying it in a funny way but clearly it didn't come out that way. So they are two people who have both said unfunny things that hurt.)

Did I ever say that JW never say hurtful comment to JH? We're talking about JH's manner to JY here, and just because I said that JW was unhappy twice and said that JH was sassy to show that JH could be rude also, then you brought about JW's comment to JH and unfunny joke/comment again to justify JH's manner saying that I wasn't sensitive to others. If you said it like that, can I also say that you're sensitive to some cast members (in this case YW and JW) and not so sensitive to others (in this case JH)? JY's conversation with JH was serious and they're not joking or trying to make funny comments with each other.

(There is a difference in commenting under someone else's comment, who has an opposite view, with a mind open to TRULY understanding their perspective, versus commenting with a mind to CHANGE or NEGATE their perspective.

Your first comment clearly showed you are doing the latter, That's why this conversation has felt abrasive (at least, from my perspective). Constantly negating what I said, which makes me feel like you don't respect what I'm saying at all and are just trying to poke holes, that I need to defend my perspective while trying to leave room open for yours. I don't know. Overall, it was not a fun conversation.)

I definitely agree with you that this is not a fun conversation. You made a lot of assumptions and accusations to me. Is that what you mean by " a mind open to TRULY understanding their perspective"? If you had an open mind to TRULY understand my perspective, you wouldn't GASLIGHT me in your reply to my first comment RIGHT AWAY from the first sentence and then NEGATE all of my comments in replies after that. You didn't respect what I said in my first comment but I have to respect your hate to YW? Was I wrong to say what I saw in the scene that CA was happy and also wanted the conversation? If she felt that YW was disrespectful to her then she could/would reject his request. Especially after he made a sudden change of mind and rejected her the night before. She wouldn't be smiling or agreed right away with him if she thought that he's being disrespectful. She's not someone without pride. You're her fan but why did you not try to understand her and made her looked/sounded cheap instead, and I have to defend her instead although I am also neutral about her, not her fan? About that CA tested YW also. Yes, I know you're talking about YW and not about CA, but it implicated CA also with her reaction, something that you as her fan shouldn't do, as if she couldn't think herself or felt whether it's respectful or disrespectful. So how do you expect me to understand and respect your comment? I don't understand why YW felt arrogant for you and I also don't understand your comment also because you indirectly bashed CA also while you're her fan. CA happily accepted YW's disrespectful act, take it like that? "Maybe" your like towards CA blinded you that made you hate YW's manner. "Maybe" your like towards CA blinded you that you didn't think about what you implied about her with your comment. I tried to be considerate because you're her fan so I tried to only question "how he's being disrespectful?" but you really forced me to say about the implication. Do you understand now why I frowned at your comment? Not only you bashed YW directly but you also bashed CA indirectly. So replying your comment about your hate felt abrasive for you. Okay, I understand.

(My advice would be not to negate other people's perspectives so much if you honestly just want to know where they're coming from. If you had come in with your original comment and just said "Why do you think Young Woo was being rude" and not inserted the negation, the conversation would go differently. I just hope you approach other people's opinions a little differently in your future comments.)

Although I feel wronged, I will take your advice then, since you're the receiving end of my argument. If you felt that me just saying a matter of fact about CA means negating your comment about YW in my first comment then so be it. and this is what I said in my fist comment though, "And how he spoke in a way that was not respectful of other people?" So I don't understand what did you mean with your comment. If you meant inserted the negation is that "maybe you're blinded", that's me asking/suggesting indirectly the possibility of us being blinded, in your case towards YW and in my case towards JH. And I already explained above about why the "maybe" being mentioned. I am tired though because of the repeated accusations that I have to explain the same thing again and again. So if you really still can't understand my points even until now, then let us agree to disagree. As I said before, you can think about me as you wish that i am not neutral, not coolheaded, or hypocrite.

And here is my advices for you.
1. Rather than focusing on negativity despite your dislike/hate for someone, why don't you just focus on positivity? You're CA's fan so you can focus comment on what you like about CA and why? And maybe about JH also? I assume you like him seeing how you defended him. Instead of projecting your hate towards YW that it will surely attract someone with different view to come and debate. Off course comment about your favourites without bringing down someone that you don't like. Not only here in this comment section but also in future dating shows' comment sections. Well, it still can also attract someone that only want to hate to come and argue to negate your comment despite you don't bring down anyone, but at least you don't spread negativity but positivity and only support your favourites. I don't accuse you or imply something with this advice. This is just my thinking. You're free to take it or leave it though. I won't force you.
2. Try to trust someone a bit. You often said this is my opinion, this is my perspective. But other people also has his opinion and perspective. I already said repeatedly that I am neutral about everyone and even added "maybe except Ju Yeon". But you keep accusing me of not being neutral. I realize now that we have different definition about "neutral", but it can happens also with other things. It's okay if you don't believe your debate opponent for the first time, but after they clarify for the second time and even repeatedly, give them a benefit of doubt and try to believe them.
3. If you feel you don't like to debate or defend your opinion/perspective any longer, you can tell them "I don't agree with you though but we can just agree to disagree" and it will end there. Maybe it's not satisfying but it won't protract the debate any longer.

I think it's YW, and YW also chose her, so it's mutual. Because she said that she didn't want to meet YW as her first secret date, and then YW really came, so she knew that YW would come. IMO, she wouldn't say that if she didn't choose YW. She's hesitating already about JH and also knew that JH would choose her so she could choose YW to sort out her feelings about him.

To be honest, I think it's you who was so forceful about only your opinion being right. I only gave my opinion but you repeatedly accused that I lied or not true, forcefully. I never said that I am right or you're wrong. What I did was giving argument to what you said. When I watched the EP 15 somehow I guessed that you'll back to me again talking about that projection and here we are :-)

When I watched it, I finally know why the PD tried to make a story about YW was thinking about JW and fate. Because it's what YW talked with JW and YW tried to approach JW in EP 15. So they tried to make a story based on that when he happened to open the suitcase and saw the plushie. That's how they made his "thought projection" as if it's what he's thinking at that time, and again I will say that it can be misleading because we will never know what exactly he was thinking at that time. He never talked about that scene (the thought projection) and the PD never asked him about it in the interview. It's the PD's story making.

Again, what I said was only from the scenes in the show so far. Because I am neutral (maybe except Ju Yeon), I accept what being said in the show and don't make assumption. YW already said that he had the change of heart only after the secret date, that's when he changed from "none" to JW, and that's it. I don't make assumption. It's all from what I saw in the scene. This is also what I said to another commenter when they talked about what YW said "I don't know" in the peach scene with CA. They said that YW lied. I explained that from what I saw it's a normal answer because he couldn't know the future. He could be still "none" in the end, or approach CA again if there was enough attraction again, or maybe approach someone else. But if you assumed that he lied then I can't force you to think otherwise.

Yes, I posted my opinion, but being neutral doesn't mean that I can't give my opinion as long as it's what was shown in the scenes without making assumption? Because what I saw was different from what the others said. What is the base to say that he lied? Just because he changed his mind after taking some weeks together, it means that he lied? That's what I can't understand. I have to admit though that he didn't talk quite clear and someone could misunderstand what he meant. Also all of the women were attracted to him so what he said/did could be interpreted differently based on their own thinking. I don't know whether it's because he tried to be considerate or because it's his way of talking or maybe other reason. There are many possibilities and I don't want to make assumption.

About your double standard, I said it because you're not consistent in the case of YW and JH, as I already said in previous post. You should already saw the secret date of JH-JW. JH talked softly and kindly, and though he looked down and up, left and right, his eyes still backed to JW when talking. So he definitely could do the same thing to JY. But you said he's not rude while for YW who told the others in public you said he's rude. Even JW already unhappy twice and said that JH was sassy. And that to the woman that he liked.

And about one strong punch, I guess that you're finally satisfied with what YW did in the Truth or Dare scene? He showed and said it very clearly to CA, and in front of the others also (which maybe you'll find it rude?)

But you already said that you're invested emotionally so I can understand your reaction. Maybe you're an "F" and I am a "T", maybe. So our perspective is different, and I already see that we can't have a coolheaded argument. I already try to explain in with "lengthy paragraphs". And I will say it back what you said to me. I hope you will soften your approach to these kinds of conversations in the future. So I hope you won't forcefully accuse me this and that anymore, even after I already said/explained it.

Based on our conversation before, I can understand and agree with your sentiment.

You conveyed it beautifully and said it much more better than me. I only have problem with the way Jae Hyung talked with Ju Yeon, not his honesty, but there is a possibility that I am bias because Ju Yeon is my favourite. Your comment feels like an oasis for me among the ocean of bashing comments.