peaches_and_cream

I totally agree.I also thought the same but didn't want to say it because of what it could imply that he was trying to emotionally trick/manipulate her again.

But I think of HBY as an INTJ personality type on the Meyers Briggs. He is just very rational and can't avoid being that way. Its not meant to be malicious.

Ahhh I see, I did start watching it and gave up on it a while back because of the lack of those "dreamy" moments haha, but I plan to rewatch because its from the same author as LLTG.

One thing that was a huge draw for me in that drama is the fact the ML and FL was married at the time they were filming. I thought that is so special.

Maybe because he realized there was a very high chance the guards won't be able to keep the door open long enough for him to crawl up. I think he already had an escape plan in mind when he asked them to let go.

It just was dramatic to us because we thought he died. But he was all like, "oh I had a plan in mind all along, you thought I died?! 😬 - lmao

I think the one difference with the Story of Ming Lan is that they didn't have a strong romantic focus right? I know I usually try to find dramas that have a strong romance storyline/tons of chemistry with a good plot (its like finding a golden egg when I do lol). Very few blends politics and romance well like this one.

Ohhh I see I think you are at the point of the story right after the Queens birthday banquet right? The promo is very misleading - the queen never hates CSS. But I won't spoil it for you. The upcoming episodes are very good.

Omg!!! that sounds like a great dream, I hope we get an epilogue or a directors cut !!!!

He was left in the capital by HBY to take care of/protect CSS

Hugs to you! It is very painful

If the viki translations of the convo with the third prince is better, can you please let me know how it goes? That was one of the scenes I had trouble following because the translations were awkward.

I think when she said she can live well without him, she meant she recognized her self worth, she knew she could be independent and didn't need a husband. I don't think she meant she could live happily. Just that she could live well in the sense she can take care of her family and the Empress.

I NEED a directors cut lol - I really hope we get it

Its very painful to analyze the tragedy of their relationship.

So i'm going to post something I stumbled upon on Twitter to cheer us all up: https://twitter.com/SkilledLurker/status/1561005876386770945 (this hug makes me melt😍)

So many amazing points by everyone, and thank you WindBlows for adding where she got sick in the drama! About why she was cold towards the third prince - I think after HBY jumped off the cliff she was very depressed - she probably assumed he was dead, and she was trying to join him. That could be why her delivery in those convos came across very unfeeling (its like PTSD, shock, depression all kind of blending into one). She lost her smile from that point onwards.

I don't think he lied later at the crypt, but I think at the moment of the massacre he had already picked a path in his mind that meant abandoning CSS and kind of signing his life away. When they had that conversation with the Empress it was after this was all sorted, so I have a very hard time understanding why he couldn't just say that he didn't regret his revenge but he deeply regretted losing CSS (the only logic I can find is that he knew he disappointed her and maybe he wanted her to have a fresh start with someone who hadn't disappointed her. With someone where their relationship wouldn't be tainted by abandonment. He was sacrificing his happiness for her to have a better relationship). He did at least say he was sorry for causing her pain, and for letting her down. And when she asked for the marriage to be cancelled, he looked visibly pained and then said "Listen Shaoshang..." and she cut him off, because she was pissed off based on what she overheard before entering the room (which I understand). But I would have loved to hear what he was going to say there (I think he was going to ask for another chance even though he had decided to let her go, because once it actually sank in that they were parting ways he wasn't able to handle it).

I won't make much excuses for him because I think if I was in his shoes the first thing I would have done after everything is sorted is to immediately go to whom I loved to explain to them and to apologize to them in a meaningful way. So his actions after the massacre were lacking even if he was feeling like he didn't deserve to be in her life.

Looking at the 5 years after:

I agree even if she knew he was battling without care for his life out in the boarders and protecting those close to her I don't think that would have changed much. She knows he's a righteous person and he's going to do what he wants to do to repent for himself (does't matter if that repentance isn't the actions she needs from him lol).

I think after they were in each others presence again, they both felt that they still gravitated very heavily to each other. I think that is when HBY realized that she still loved him and he started to feel like he might have a chance and the empress asked him to forgive himself (which was important). So at that point in the crypt she had already heard that he never stopped thinking about her, he still considers her his wife and doesn't want to live without her, when they tried to peacefully say goodbye they both immediately felt the loss afterwards (right after the Empress's death when they were walking away from each other), and then in the crypt he FINALLY said he regretted abandoning her, not including her in his planning and that he should have married her first even if the path to revenge is difficult. Its all she needed to hear from him in all this time lol. And then she almost loses him again, so it builds well why she immediately forgave him after that.

Its just frustrating to me because if someone had summoned him sooner to the capital this could have been expedited. Because once they are around each its very obvious they can't let each other go.

Also talking about their thawing process haha, in addition to the scenes you said, I think one of the other moments prior to the crypt incident that made her open her heart a bit was that cliff scene after the LJT incident. When he told her he never stopped thinking of her as his wife. I mean that was SUPER romantic to hear lol - plus when LJT said he didn't let the bite mark fade, he tried to make it scar more🧛‍♂️

Same I just rewatched and cried some more

Agreed!!!!!!!!

Starting a new replay because you are right the box is getting narrow haha :D. I just rewatched some of these scenes and cried some more.

I agree with points you've all made in this thread. I think even after he jumped off the cliff they had a chance until CSS heard him say that he didn't regret losing her or what he did. Her convo with the crown prince was a bit hard to follow, I think maybe the phrases translate not the best into English, but I think she said "I love LBY/HBY the most in this world, but I have no one else but myself". HBY could have at some point after his recovery from the cliff fall explained to her what was going through his mind, begged for her forgiveness and at-least say he regretted abandoning her. It broke my heart to realize HBY explained to the court what happened/about his past, but he never went up to CSS to tell her the story about his past in his own words. I think she was right in asking him "did you ever understand me" - or my feelings for you or what kind of state this would leave me in. If he feels like he can't live without her, isn't it selfish of him to just throw his life away and assume she'd be able to live well?

I agree, as a viewer I definitely liked watching the angst and his quiet deep regret. But the thing is if he doesn't even ask for forgiveness why would she assume he wanted her forgiveness or even want her in his life? Even if she had known he was suffering in silence and protecting people, I think she would assume he was doing it to make amends in his own heart (or because he felt he owed it to her and her family) but not necessarily because he wanted her forgiveness or a way back into her life. And you are right he didn't think he desrved her forgiveness anyway (I think someone needed to talk sense into HBY to say like you can't go on living like this you need to go talk to her). But it ended up being two people living apart and suffering daily.

Yes I wonder how the book went in terms of her sickness. In the drama its hard to pinpoint where she got SUPER sick, I would have to assume maybe it was after she went into the palace to be with the queen and I remember the scenery in that first take of her was very dark. The room door was shut, no light other than that one lamp and she kind of drooped staring at that oil/dripping water?

This is exactly why I bawl like a baby when I see these scenes😭😭😭

Hearing your perspective I think I can now comfortably say neither of them were really in the right or wrong. She definitely needed space, maybe he could have come back after a year🥹 and yes admitted sooner that he regretted his actions.

Yeah I totally get where you are coming from and I agree! So glad we are having this conversation I've been wanting to chat about this. Your perspective does give me a lot of empathy for LBY.

This is exactly what I would have liked them to flesh out in the show (with an extra episode or two). When he says in the crypt he immediately regretted what he did after he saw her that day of the massacre I wasn't sure if I believed it. I think when he went away for 5 years it sunk in for him how much he lost. He didn't regret his revenge but he regretted losing her and he pretty much lived with losing her as his pennance (but tried to take care of her from behind the scenes while being absolutely miserable - sigh)

I definitely agree his issues are a lot more serious. But we can only frame our reality by what we've been exposed to, and for CSS her agonies growing up are also very real and significant and we can't fault her for wanting loyalty. I think it boiled down to the fact she told him numerous times that as long as he doesn't lie to her they would be okay. It seemed like he went into the massacre intending to lose her/intending to die (kind of similar to what Lou Ben did to his wife, just wiping the rug out from under her feet) so at that point what more is realistic for her to do really other than to save him (because she loves him) and then to set him free? Plus it was irresponsible for him to make her fall in love with him and then do this (he knew where she stood on this issue, it wasn't ambiguous), Plus she almost died after he betrayed her (although in the drama they only mentioned that briefly, but her father said they started making a coffin for her because she got that close to death) because she was so heart broken so she probably wasn't in the right mental state to take the higher road.

I just think I needed him to grovel more to ask for forgiveness lmao 😂 - if he had grovelled more maybe she would have forgiven him sooner. But he knew he messed up really badly and his personality was too honourable to ask for forgiveness - bah.

But even through all this tragedy the nice thing is they are now on the same page and they are going to have much more happiness in the years to come.🥰

it does :)

Hahaha I love that, that would have been very nice❤️. The only caveat I would add is that even though he got interrupted, LBY doesn't let anything stop him usually. So the fact he could have find time to tell her and didn't is dissapointing.

But if he had included her in the revenge, told the emperor or the third prince the truth and then went about getting his revenge I think it could have been wrapped up neater for both of them, followed by all the nice things you mentioned. And the Empress would have seen them get married😭

And I agree with you if he had answered differently to the question I don't think anything would have changed. I could see why she was hurt when he abandoned her, I also had a hard time forgiving him. I kind of interpreted his behaviour as his revenge being more important than CSS and as a sign he was willing to lose her. I would have had a hard time looking him in the face after that too, much less forgiving him. Perhaps if he hadn't gone to the northern borders she might have forgiven him sooner because I really do believe they are fated to be together and are drawn together like magnets . But I respected CSS's resolve. And LBY not asking for her forgiveness also spoke volume that he didn't feel like he deserved to be forgiven. It was tragic all around.