Kate

From logistic point of view, if they planned to cancel, they already would I think. If there is a high probability of them not being able to finish it and debut the team, they would be wasting money right now trying to fix unfixable problem. I think they have 2 problems they have to deal with now, hence the finale is postponed:
> Tony leaving means one of the ream need to re-organize their whole stage. Redistribution of lines, re-doing the choreo (formation especially) and re-learning new positions (which is harder than learning the song from the beginning, since they already have muscle memory of the past formations etc).
> Coming up with a new voting system for the finale, since the milk thing will not be able to continue - it has to be something easily accessible for viewers but also profiting for the show itself.
There is for sure more going on, but these two seem like a logical explanations why the final episode is not happening.

Well, it did not seem like she complimented him, since later he talked with Nemo and he also said that in the class the said he needs to be worried about being first place since other trainees are catching up and he cried that for the past some time there are no praises going his way from anyone. If he did give him compliment, why would he say that and cry over it?

And I don't get why you are saying Huaiwei is using Lisa or assuming he was not respectful towards her. He is a huge Blackpink fan overall. True, Jennie is his bias, but that does not mean he does not like other members. He fanboyed over Lisa during the show too. Also, it's Lisa teasing Huaiwei about him liking Jennie. When she asked him for the first time who he likes the most, at first he said he likes all the members, but she kept asking so he did say her and Jennie (which obviously means Jennie as fav member). All the Blackpink talk started from that point. And again, it was Lisa who said he is more happy now and brought up the topic. Him saying "can we just not talk about" was not disrespectful, he was embarrassed (he literally tried to hide behind the members) and Lisa was laughing about it too.

I don't have problem with Lisa, I enjoy her interactions with trainees and I appreciate how she wanted to talk to each trainee at least once during the show and learn all the names, but sometimes her comments don't sit well with me when I take into consideration how much stress and pressure the trainees are facing anyway. Like, when one trainee asked her if he made progress with dancing (don't remember who it was), and he obviously did. They all did since the beginning of the show. She could say that even tho there is still a lot to learn, he did improved a lot, and he will keep improving with each practice (a hopeful message). But she said she believes he will do better on stage than during practice. The way it was framed and said clearly meant he is not good now, and he still needs to practice (that's how the trainees took it too, since they laughed about her complimenting him without really giving any good words).

We know they are investigating and that's why the filming stopped but we don't know the exact reason since they did not give it in the statement. With what was going on we can assume it is at least to some extent related to Tony.
We know there were complaints made, and again, we can assume it's probably about Tony, but the reason for the complains was also not officially declared.
At least I did not find one source providing the full info on the matter up till now.

The fact the filming stopped is true, but we don't know the reason behind it. The milk being thrown away and that it was one of the complains from netizens is just a rumor since all "news" are based on the photos that are from last season not this season. There is NO credible proof nor source saying the reason the filming stopped was coz of the throwing away milk.

Sure, but adding more rumors is not exactly helpful, that's why I wrote the comment, since the milk scandal is about last season not this one. There is not one photo of the milks from this season being thrown away.

Apparently the photo that goes around is from the last season not this one. People on twitter kept saying that this happened in last season and has nothing to do with this one, since now fans are donating the milk instead of throwing it away.

https://www.sohu.com/a/464562419_120139308?scm=1004.780752318059708416.0.0.568-1297-676&spm=smpc.news-home.yule-news.2.162012960024902FKpLO

check the bottles: these were what they were promoting in season 2.

Can someone explain to me why is everyone on the internet so angry at iQiyi? I truly can't see how they could have deal with the situation is any different way.

A lot of people blame iQIYI for not protecting Tony, but it's not their job to protect him, especially if it might negatively affect other trainees. His own agency is the one that should do the protecting. His parents should have given better statement than: we know nothing. iQIYI's responsibility is to provide the training space, stages, food, etc. for the show. They are not responsible for PR issues of the trainees (at least up till the moment they debut as a group under them). They are not responsible for dealing with personal matters of trainees.

The anger should be directed at people who created this mess and posted the accusations, not towards iQiyi for trying to deal with the aftermath.

Oh honestly I had a problem with how Lisa handled that end of the class and overall last class final words. She gave compliments to everyone except from Tony (questioning if he is ready to debut and if he has what it's needed to be center) and questioning Huaiwei's stage presence (saying he is charming when speaking, but where the charm goes on stage). This did not sit right with me knowing this is their last class with her and it would be better for her to encourage them with nice words.

But yeah, I think a lot of people forgets how young Tony is because he already had some experience in the industry and programs like that. But he is one of the youngest kids there. I think it truly might be better for his mental health to leave the show, even tho it is unfair.

As for the parents thing and not his fault. I read some posts on twitter (so not the best source of information) that drugs are REALLY serious shit in China. And people who wanted Tony to quit were going by the logic of: if kids of parents who work in anti0drug related jobs must face the danger and even life threatening situations of of their parents job, it would be unfair for Tony to not be affected by his parents "crimes". From how I see it, this is serious enough that it goes beyond his participation in the show, but it can literally ruin any future possibilities on career in China. that's why I hope the parents case will be explain to the point not questions are left unanswered. For Tony's sake.

Tony withdrawing is a tragic thing tbh. Even tho I was not exactly a fan of his (compared to other trainees), it is true that he worked extremely hard and has an amazing talent to be an idol.

At the same time I am thinking what would be better for his mental health: leaving as he did, or staying. Even before the accusations dropped I could see how mentally exhausted and pressured he is. I am honestly not sure he could handle the outcome of staying in the show. It's clear that he would be in the debut line up (even if he dropped in ranking and not end up in center, he would definitely debut). The amount of hate that he would face would be even bigger. Having him in the group would make it harder for the whole team to promote and even get sponsors - overall make money. He would for sure blame himself for it, and even if he did not, he would still feel so much pressure coz of this. I don't know... the whole situation is fucked up. There is literally no way out of it for Tony to not get hurt in the process...

Honestly would not mind Han Jung Hyun dying by the end. It's hard to like his character.

I always said they need to give a rise to their editors coz they are truly doing amazing job lol

Woo Do Hwan being in almost all of them got me on the floor laughing hahahaha
The Spies sounds like something I'd die for.

Liu Yu and AK were my favs. I loved Yetao and I was honestly showed after first elimination seeing him rank so low, coz he was truly one of the best trainees. Mika, Liu Yu, Rikimaru and Santa were obviously top 4.

The thing is (and I think they will have the same problem in YWY group), the final lineup does not have a strong vocalist (by strong I mean stable more chest voice ad-lips type of way). Mika is amazing but he is more soft r&b and that's what he aces. Nine has huge potential with his vocal range, but the lack of training shows up with his lack of control over his voice: so he hits the notes, just not well and stable. And same goes with YWY, none of the right now top trainees are outstanding vocalists tbh, The are all specializing in other areas.

Yeah I did watch Chuang 2021. Loved the trainees, hated the production hahahaha
I'm happy with the finale lineup, mostly. My favs got 1st and 11th hahaha
Sad for Oscar tho. I feel like fans fed up when they stopped voting for him thinking he is safe anyway, and tried to safe lower ranked trainees. By the 3rd elimination there is no point voting for the low ranking ones (unless they are your favs).
And this is why I'm using all my votes from the 2nd elimination on Huaiwei hahaha

The ones I truly believe are needed in the line up (truth to be told, just a few):
⇢ Yizhou coz he is an all-rounder but most importantly he has good leadership skills.
⇢ Chase Lee for his rapping skills, and mostly for his writing skills.
⇢ Liu Jun for his dancing and the ability to create good choreography.
⇢ Lian Huaiwei: for his social and entertainment skills

That's it. These 4 (for me) excel in some areas. while still being able to keep up with others (like Chase Lee not being great dancer, but being able to execute the choreography).

There are also only 5 trainees that I cannot see in the debut line up, coz for me they are not ready and need more training: Jojo, Waston, Nemo, Jerome. D and Ziwei.

That said, I would not be mad if Ziwei debuts, coz even tho his dancing is bad, he does have the strongest vocals. My only question is: will it fit the modern fast pop? Coz we never really hear him in anything like that.

That's my views on it hahahah

Input on AK situation. Hidden under spoiler coz it's basically mini essay, did not want to make it annoying for people to scroll passed it if they are not interested :)

So this will be my last input into the AK discussions, coz the talks are just not productive at all. 80% of the content of my comments are ignored and people reply only to the bits that fit their perspective, so what's the point?

First of all, most people "defending" AK are not saying he never did anything wrong. We are saying he did mess up in the past, but he apologized for it and showed with his hard work and attitude during the program, that he takes it seriously and he does not look down on idols anymore. What more should he do for people to think his apology was sincere? I would love to know the answer.

Second, he did in fact most likely said the R word during 2nd episode of Chuang 2021: Are You a Werewolf?. Why I said "most likely" and not that he said is? Because it depends on the cultural connotation the word has and I don't know them not living in China. The word he used, in all dictionaries I checked has as the first meaning "mentally handicapped", and some also had as a 2nd and 3rd meaning the R word. That said, whenever he said the R word or it had the meaning of "mentally handicapped", it's still wrong, since in this context, his comment was based on negative stereotypes surrounding mental problems.

Do I think he should be called out for it? No. I think he should be inform and educated about why it was wrong to make that joke. What's the difference between calling someone out and informing them? You call out people who do something with malicious intent, you inform people who make mistake based on their ignorance of the topic. So based on what I think he was ignorant and not malicious? Simply for the fact we even got to see that joke. If the use of the word was viewed as something problematic by the general audience, production team and overall Chinese society: they would edit it out. Since it was included and edited as funny joke, I think it's fair to assume it's not just AK being asshole, but overall society being not sensitive and educated enough on the topics of mental health. None of the trainees had a negative reaction to his joke. Not only that, even interactional audience did not point out how the joke was bad if you check the comment section under that episode on youtube (and they did translate it as R word there). So it's not him being a dick, it's the whole society being ignorant on the issue. Hence informing and educating is the way to go. IF we knew he was pointed out it's wrong, and then we see him do it again: that's when you call him out. Coz at this point he should have known better.

His mistakes are quite misrepresented tho. Except from R word, it all comes down to this ONE diss. But with how people say he did "this and that and that" naming different problematic actions, as if they were separated instances and not part of this one mistake, make it seem as if he has pattern of problematic behavior, which is not true. The diss was gross. Written based on AK ignorance of the subject he was commenting on (aka idols and their work). He matured and apologized for it. It's up to everyone to decide to accept it or not (which he also knows, as he commented on it), but lets be sure we present his mistakes in the accurate fashion.

One person in a comment below linked the translation of his interview after the debut, and it just makes me believe people are truly finding excuses to dislike even if they make no sense. Nothing he said in the interview was offensive nor wrong. Lelush situation in the show was disgusting and his fans were simply disrespectful to this grown up man. For me AK was too polite commenting on it. He said it's understandable Lelush got up till finale, but it would be wrong if he actually debuted. Nope. For me it was wrong he even got into finale. Why? Coz he kept saying how he wants to leave, he does not want to be part of the show and how bad he feels "stealing" the spot from someone who actually wants to be an idol. So people who kept him till finale literally did not care about his wishes and did whatever they wanted. He did not criticize nor said anything bad about Lelush.

It's also true that Gan Wang Xing is not right now at the level to debut. He needs more training. I do believe he will be an amazing idol in the future, but this is clearly too early for him. Music wise he does not have strong points at the moment. He is extremely charming and has likable personality, both are also extremely important if you want to be an idol, but still, musical capability is the base. So why are people pressed about it? How is what he said wrong? It literally shows that he does see being an idol now as something serious. That you need to have some kind of musical skills on a certain level to debut. That it's not just about pretty face and being likable.

So that's that. Did he mess up? Yes. Did he apologize? Yes. Do everyone have to forgive him? No. Can people dislike him? Yes. But you don't have to exaggerate the reasons and present them as more than they were in fact. I dislike a lot of people too, sometimes without any real reason - they didn't do anything wrong, I'm just not vibing with them, they are not my type of people. Liking someone is heavily based on our emotions and not logical reasoning. And we don't control our emotions. So feel free to keep disliking him, feel free to inform people about his past mistake, just remember to do it in a honest manner.

I shared my thoughts in this mini essay hahaha Feel free to share your views in a reply, but I won't be replying. I said what I wanted to say. I tried to have conversation with few, and it led to nowhere.

Going through the twitter found a link to reddit post giving more context and background on the whole diss controversy and better translated lyrics, if anyone is interested:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProduceCamp2021/comments/mwpgpa/clearing_up_aks_controversy/

I checked in few dictionaries, and usually the translation is first: mentally handicapped, but there is an R word as like 3rd meaning.
But that's the thing with words, it's hard to translate when the meaning in other language has many synonyms.
Whenever it would be translated into R word or "mentally handicapped", it's still not something he should say in a context of joking about his mistake during the game tho.
That said, as I said in a reply to neohou, I believe the problem is not just AK, but rather overall the social stigma around mental problems and the lack of sensibility in media. Since if it was viewed as a offensive word in China, they would simply edit it out.
If you check the comment section under that episode on youtube, where in subs they go with R word as translation, you don't see one comment pointing it out as something wrong. No one criticizes it. Why? Coz there is not enough conversation about it.

Well. that's bad and I hope someone told him it is wrong (but from reactions of others I don't think so). That's something he should be called out for, hopefully someone did in the way that reached him.

But this just makes me question China as a country more and the program itself. They obviously did not see it as a problematic thing since they included it in the episode, when it could have been easily edited. So it says a lot about the overall cultural sentiment towards mental problems in the country. If the word is widely used and accepted by other people... Same way in ywy this year one of the contestants did black face that was suppose to look like brown tan etc. But it did look just like a black face. It was a joke of the segment and literally every contestant laughed about it. They included it in the show, so it was not problematic for them. The more I see these Chinese shows the more I witness how ignorant they are about some topic. But not to diss China only, this goes for every country. Polish people are ignorant about various topics too.

Like, is this word he used problematic in the perception of public in China, or just outside of China? Coz if it's not "a big deal" in china, I think he should be informed how it can have negative effect and is stigmatizing, but not called out for it. And if it is a big deal (which makes no sense, coz they would cut it from the show to avoid backlash), then he should be called out and face the backlash for it.

You inform people who are ignorant, you call out people who know their actions are wrong and don't care.

Okay than link me where and when he said the R word. Coz you didn't.

You are free to not buy it. I am. If he did not mature and change his perspective, it would literally make no sense for him to be in the show. He would just reject it. Instead he apologized in the most public way possible, and said people don't have to forgive him.

He worked as hard as other trainees so it's not like he took the show lightly. What should he do for you to believe his apology? What more could he have done?