Kate

Honestly would not mind Han Jung Hyun dying by the end. It's hard to like his character.

I always said they need to give a rise to their editors coz they are truly doing amazing job lol

Woo Do Hwan being in almost all of them got me on the floor laughing hahahaha
The Spies sounds like something I'd die for.

Liu Yu and AK were my favs. I loved Yetao and I was honestly showed after first elimination seeing him rank so low, coz he was truly one of the best trainees. Mika, Liu Yu, Rikimaru and Santa were obviously top 4.

The thing is (and I think they will have the same problem in YWY group), the final lineup does not have a strong vocalist (by strong I mean stable more chest voice ad-lips type of way). Mika is amazing but he is more soft r&b and that's what he aces. Nine has huge potential with his vocal range, but the lack of training shows up with his lack of control over his voice: so he hits the notes, just not well and stable. And same goes with YWY, none of the right now top trainees are outstanding vocalists tbh, The are all specializing in other areas.

Yeah I did watch Chuang 2021. Loved the trainees, hated the production hahahaha
I'm happy with the finale lineup, mostly. My favs got 1st and 11th hahaha
Sad for Oscar tho. I feel like fans fed up when they stopped voting for him thinking he is safe anyway, and tried to safe lower ranked trainees. By the 3rd elimination there is no point voting for the low ranking ones (unless they are your favs).
And this is why I'm using all my votes from the 2nd elimination on Huaiwei hahaha

The ones I truly believe are needed in the line up (truth to be told, just a few):
⇢ Yizhou coz he is an all-rounder but most importantly he has good leadership skills.
⇢ Chase Lee for his rapping skills, and mostly for his writing skills.
⇢ Liu Jun for his dancing and the ability to create good choreography.
⇢ Lian Huaiwei: for his social and entertainment skills

That's it. These 4 (for me) excel in some areas. while still being able to keep up with others (like Chase Lee not being great dancer, but being able to execute the choreography).

There are also only 5 trainees that I cannot see in the debut line up, coz for me they are not ready and need more training: Jojo, Waston, Nemo, Jerome. D and Ziwei.

That said, I would not be mad if Ziwei debuts, coz even tho his dancing is bad, he does have the strongest vocals. My only question is: will it fit the modern fast pop? Coz we never really hear him in anything like that.

That's my views on it hahahah

Input on AK situation. Hidden under spoiler coz it's basically mini essay, did not want to make it annoying for people to scroll passed it if they are not interested :)

So this will be my last input into the AK discussions, coz the talks are just not productive at all. 80% of the content of my comments are ignored and people reply only to the bits that fit their perspective, so what's the point?

First of all, most people "defending" AK are not saying he never did anything wrong. We are saying he did mess up in the past, but he apologized for it and showed with his hard work and attitude during the program, that he takes it seriously and he does not look down on idols anymore. What more should he do for people to think his apology was sincere? I would love to know the answer.

Second, he did in fact most likely said the R word during 2nd episode of Chuang 2021: Are You a Werewolf?. Why I said "most likely" and not that he said is? Because it depends on the cultural connotation the word has and I don't know them not living in China. The word he used, in all dictionaries I checked has as the first meaning "mentally handicapped", and some also had as a 2nd and 3rd meaning the R word. That said, whenever he said the R word or it had the meaning of "mentally handicapped", it's still wrong, since in this context, his comment was based on negative stereotypes surrounding mental problems.

Do I think he should be called out for it? No. I think he should be inform and educated about why it was wrong to make that joke. What's the difference between calling someone out and informing them? You call out people who do something with malicious intent, you inform people who make mistake based on their ignorance of the topic. So based on what I think he was ignorant and not malicious? Simply for the fact we even got to see that joke. If the use of the word was viewed as something problematic by the general audience, production team and overall Chinese society: they would edit it out. Since it was included and edited as funny joke, I think it's fair to assume it's not just AK being asshole, but overall society being not sensitive and educated enough on the topics of mental health. None of the trainees had a negative reaction to his joke. Not only that, even interactional audience did not point out how the joke was bad if you check the comment section under that episode on youtube (and they did translate it as R word there). So it's not him being a dick, it's the whole society being ignorant on the issue. Hence informing and educating is the way to go. IF we knew he was pointed out it's wrong, and then we see him do it again: that's when you call him out. Coz at this point he should have known better.

His mistakes are quite misrepresented tho. Except from R word, it all comes down to this ONE diss. But with how people say he did "this and that and that" naming different problematic actions, as if they were separated instances and not part of this one mistake, make it seem as if he has pattern of problematic behavior, which is not true. The diss was gross. Written based on AK ignorance of the subject he was commenting on (aka idols and their work). He matured and apologized for it. It's up to everyone to decide to accept it or not (which he also knows, as he commented on it), but lets be sure we present his mistakes in the accurate fashion.

One person in a comment below linked the translation of his interview after the debut, and it just makes me believe people are truly finding excuses to dislike even if they make no sense. Nothing he said in the interview was offensive nor wrong. Lelush situation in the show was disgusting and his fans were simply disrespectful to this grown up man. For me AK was too polite commenting on it. He said it's understandable Lelush got up till finale, but it would be wrong if he actually debuted. Nope. For me it was wrong he even got into finale. Why? Coz he kept saying how he wants to leave, he does not want to be part of the show and how bad he feels "stealing" the spot from someone who actually wants to be an idol. So people who kept him till finale literally did not care about his wishes and did whatever they wanted. He did not criticize nor said anything bad about Lelush.

It's also true that Gan Wang Xing is not right now at the level to debut. He needs more training. I do believe he will be an amazing idol in the future, but this is clearly too early for him. Music wise he does not have strong points at the moment. He is extremely charming and has likable personality, both are also extremely important if you want to be an idol, but still, musical capability is the base. So why are people pressed about it? How is what he said wrong? It literally shows that he does see being an idol now as something serious. That you need to have some kind of musical skills on a certain level to debut. That it's not just about pretty face and being likable.

So that's that. Did he mess up? Yes. Did he apologize? Yes. Do everyone have to forgive him? No. Can people dislike him? Yes. But you don't have to exaggerate the reasons and present them as more than they were in fact. I dislike a lot of people too, sometimes without any real reason - they didn't do anything wrong, I'm just not vibing with them, they are not my type of people. Liking someone is heavily based on our emotions and not logical reasoning. And we don't control our emotions. So feel free to keep disliking him, feel free to inform people about his past mistake, just remember to do it in a honest manner.

I shared my thoughts in this mini essay hahaha Feel free to share your views in a reply, but I won't be replying. I said what I wanted to say. I tried to have conversation with few, and it led to nowhere.

Going through the twitter found a link to reddit post giving more context and background on the whole diss controversy and better translated lyrics, if anyone is interested:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ProduceCamp2021/comments/mwpgpa/clearing_up_aks_controversy/

I checked in few dictionaries, and usually the translation is first: mentally handicapped, but there is an R word as like 3rd meaning.
But that's the thing with words, it's hard to translate when the meaning in other language has many synonyms.
Whenever it would be translated into R word or "mentally handicapped", it's still not something he should say in a context of joking about his mistake during the game tho.
That said, as I said in a reply to neohou, I believe the problem is not just AK, but rather overall the social stigma around mental problems and the lack of sensibility in media. Since if it was viewed as a offensive word in China, they would simply edit it out.
If you check the comment section under that episode on youtube, where in subs they go with R word as translation, you don't see one comment pointing it out as something wrong. No one criticizes it. Why? Coz there is not enough conversation about it.

Well. that's bad and I hope someone told him it is wrong (but from reactions of others I don't think so). That's something he should be called out for, hopefully someone did in the way that reached him.

But this just makes me question China as a country more and the program itself. They obviously did not see it as a problematic thing since they included it in the episode, when it could have been easily edited. So it says a lot about the overall cultural sentiment towards mental problems in the country. If the word is widely used and accepted by other people... Same way in ywy this year one of the contestants did black face that was suppose to look like brown tan etc. But it did look just like a black face. It was a joke of the segment and literally every contestant laughed about it. They included it in the show, so it was not problematic for them. The more I see these Chinese shows the more I witness how ignorant they are about some topic. But not to diss China only, this goes for every country. Polish people are ignorant about various topics too.

Like, is this word he used problematic in the perception of public in China, or just outside of China? Coz if it's not "a big deal" in china, I think he should be informed how it can have negative effect and is stigmatizing, but not called out for it. And if it is a big deal (which makes no sense, coz they would cut it from the show to avoid backlash), then he should be called out and face the backlash for it.

You inform people who are ignorant, you call out people who know their actions are wrong and don't care.

Okay than link me where and when he said the R word. Coz you didn't.

You are free to not buy it. I am. If he did not mature and change his perspective, it would literally make no sense for him to be in the show. He would just reject it. Instead he apologized in the most public way possible, and said people don't have to forgive him.

He worked as hard as other trainees so it's not like he took the show lightly. What should he do for you to believe his apology? What more could he have done?

Again, he did apologize for the diss and he showed with his attitude that he change. There is literally nothing more he can do in this situation.

So the sexualization also comes down to that diss. Which just sounded dumb and ignorant af (the diss). So at the end of the day... it is just that one incident?

I don't believe he should be dragged till the end of his life for that gross (coz it was gross, I'm not gonna deny it) diss track. Especially since he did nothing to even make me suspect he still holds these views now.

That said, if in the future his action will go back to his previous behavior, I will drop him easily, coz that would mean he learned nothing.

You seem informed to let me give one statement and ask some questions (coz I wouldn't even know where to look for answers myself).

About the "dissing idols" part, you said it took him 3 years to apologize, so he was around 18 when it happened, aka young. We all know how rap industry is and what was the perception many rappers have/had on idols. Being 18 you are EASILY influenced and you want to impress and fit into your social circle. I assume that's what happened here. He was dumb and ignorant. He gave a proper apology now, that he matured. He literally could not do it better: he apologized and then learned what it truly means to be an idol by working his ass off in the show, like all the other trainees. Since people he offended themselves accepted the apology (based on the reaction of mentors who are idols and trainees themselves) I don't see how fans should still get offended on their behalf. That's it on that topic.

I have no idea how he was before the show, since I did see him in he show for the first time. Based on how he is now, he must have matured a lot. Not once was he rude or disrespectful. He might have been rude in the past, but again, he was teen, teens are dumb.

To the most important: could you link me some sources of when and how he sexualized minors and the using R word? Coz that's bad. He was one of my favorites in the show, so I would like to know if he did some problematic things in the past.

the subs are up now :)

Don't honey me. The psychopath study is not true, not in the way it was misrepresented here. It was misrepresented so badly, it's basically full of bullshit statement in the show.
Also, if it's only "show honey" why are you so pressed about how characters are written. Practice what you preach.

And this is exactly why I think the drama is bad and why I dropped it on episode 2. Because of all the scientific bullshit. It should switch to fantasy with the claims there were making. The whole premise about psychopath is unrealistic and laughable. This show tried to be gruesome and dark thriller but with the unscientific claims, made itself into comedy.

BUT even going by the "here all psychopaths are killers", it still makes no sense for the mother to have an abortion. Before the kids were born, the research was barely concluded. It was ONE research from ONE researcher against the body of work of years from other researchers. I would not do an abortion either, coz one dude claims all psychopaths will be killers, it's illogical and dumb.

Well... I dropped the show so I don't know what's up, but being psychopath does not equal serial killer or anything. Someone who is a psychopath can live fairly normal and successful life. Most psychopath do not go around killing people. Child who was not yet born cannot create any victims. So no one picked the son over a victim (in context of you saying why she did not do abortion).

Episode 19 was a bit of happiness and fun both the trainees and the viewers needed.

You call it identity crisis, I call it bad writing ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well that's my problem. The bullying stopped being the center. They added so many other "crimes and immoral acts" on the table, it was not just the bullying. When bullying would be enough for the revenge plot to happen.

"but by implying what she said we can assume that she hoped that they would understand and repent" no line she said would suggest that was her reasoning. Her attitude was more of: it's not serious enough for us to take this case. and only AFTER she saw they had some connection to the gangster guy she said it's more than just immature teenagers behavior. Which would suggest that everything she saw and heard before she classified as "immature behavior".

Also, this was not a way to make the bullies understand. By the end they did not understand their wrongdoings, nor did they feel bad. They barely remembered the victims. They "accepted" the punishment out of fear not guilt. Not to mention none of the adults involved was truly punished, which was also a joke. I was a victim of bullying, and I honestly felt much more resentment towards adults than the teens that were bullying me.