Role Reversal (RR) Drama Lovers Club

 Arclei:

Yes!! It's so disappointing when there's a clear author's favorite

Right!! Like the number of times I have watched a drama labled RR harem only to end up feeling like it was a love triangle at best T-T. I usually end up leaving the drama at least a little dissapointed beacuse of it...

 Arclei:

The didi was my favorite with the courtesan as a close second

It was the opposite for me, courtesean was my first place with puppy-esque brother a close second. FL was just so good at comanding all four of them.

 Arclei:

And yet, even in these realistic dramas, there's wuxia flying just like there's the magical-pulse-reading-of-truth... It just takes me out of it. Like, these fantasy elements that are ACTUALLY fantasy and do not and never did exist are fine even in realistic historical dramas, but women having rights even in fantasy dramas? DON'T MAKE ME LAUGH!!! 

That's magical realism for ya. I've always liked it as a genre/art form, but I've read whole think pieces on authors loving to utilize it, but women having rights? NO, that has to be very real and historically accurate. It happens in eastern media with the wuxia-style fighting and using qi like superpowers, and western media with witches, wizards, and dragons (think Game of Thrones). The fact that the mistreatment of woman is always what's kept when authors use magical realism is telling. I wish it wasn't that way. 

 Arclei:

Omg, yay, let's do that! I don't have enough knowledge on Mandarin to be very confident in my naming abilities, but I have google and a name list that I've been collecting, so we can probably figure something out. You got any ideas so far? Any vibes? 

I was thinking something that means pride/strength/resilience in the face of adversity because of her tough childhood and her even tougher profession. But I didn't want anything typical like "mei", "li", "lin", or "lan" if we can help it (although I'm the most open to "lan").

I did a couple of searches, and I really like:

傲雪 (Ào Xuě) or  傲霜 (Ào Shuāng)

They mean "proud in snow" or "proud in frost". Here's the character breakdown:

Ào (傲): Means proud, arrogant, or treating with contempt. In this context, it signifies a "proud" stance, having no fear, or standing tall against harsh conditions. (Exactly what I wanted)

Xuě (雪): Means snow. It is often used to symbolize purity, serenity, and the ability to endure cold. (It would be a bit tongue-in-cheek to give her a character symbolizing "purity" because she's a prostitute. It can also be a way to ask why sex workers can't be considered pure)

Plus I don't think I've come across many Ao Xue's in historicals. It's unique 😊 

Runner-ups:

• Zhi Hán (智涵): Refers to being resourceful, intelligent, and brave
• Ying Zi (英子): Means "heroic daughter"
• Su Yue (苏月): Moon-chasing (It just sounds cool)

What about you?

 Arclei:

Either that or some scandalous situation must've happened, which... I'm not exactly against, either... 😏 Me and my scandals, lmfao

Oh, it would definitely need to be a scandal 😏 Which would be on brand for one of the Rong family's "troublemakers". I'm thinking once our OC finds out he's from the wealthy, powerful Rong family where women are taken seriously, she could compromise him. 

 Arclei:

Bro, spoil me- how did they ruin it this time?

By having them get together, and not utilizing them! I think they get shown one more time doing something shady, then the next time you see them, the butler is kicking him out of the household (I forgot why because that's how unimportant they ultimately end up being). They were completely wasted.

 Arclei:

Yknow what, I think I might write a lil ficlet about this scenario RQ because it's kinda lingering in my brain for too long... 

TELL ME YOU'VE STARTED!!!

I'm...cautiously entertaining writing a oneshot that expands on my idea of the 4th sister whipping that poor stand-in for the cousin in the tea fields. But aside from the Rurouni Kenshin fic I wrote when I was...12 (?) and a poor attempt at a Bridgerton oneshot, I don't write historical fiction. I barely watch it. I'm worried my tone/style might be too modern for it, and I can be a neurotic perfectionist so I can't simply slap something together.

I wonder if listening to a bunch of Chinese instrumentals or Zhou Shen would help? 🤔

Because if I could somehow write it and you wrote the fic about the scholar getting caught undressing/the 5th sister...then we'd have sister fics! One could lead into the other.

 Arclei:

A kidnapping stalker, a mad scientist, a political schemer with obsessive tendencies, a violent antihero, an apologist mafia boss, a domme arsonist, a deranged priestess, and uh... those are the ones I can remember rn (kinda in order from worst to best, lol)

Ummm...THESE SOUND AMAZING????? Especially the stalker and the arsonist! 

I'll let you skip rent this month if I can read these.

 Arclei:

And of course... can't forget my Gyeongsong Creature fanfic (secondary dynamic) and of course

I'm generally not into the oppressed x colonizer trope (I didn't even like Pocahontas x John Smith as a kid and I was grossed out by the concept of this movie when it was released), but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious about this 🙂‍↕️ The ML and SFL had way more chemistry. 

 Arclei:

A Dream Like the True Love xD In case you still somehow did not check out the drama (how??) I'll spoil it for you rq: SFL forces ML to become her boytoy/concubine under the threat of killing his family and... yeah~~ 

Oooohhh, interesting...😏 Is it a substantial plot point or do they pull a Princess Decree? What's ML's dynamic with the FL?

 Arclei:

Oh, both options are SO tempting. The sadistic side of me wants to say option 2 but I think option 1 is the better one... cause then.... he can digest all of that.... and she can find out that he knows after she sent a servant to bring the boy medicine (lets give her at least a chunk of a heart) and THEN SHE CAN KNOW THAT HE KNOWS AND HE CAN KNOW THAT SHE KNOWS THAT HE KNOWS- and where will it go from there?! Is she apologetic? Is she avoiding him? Trying to explain herself? Pretending like nothing happened or.... maybe wanting to speed things up with him to get him to keep quiet about it? Mmmmm~ This could be what gets them compromised. But I'm evil, you know this xD

Yeah, I think Option 1 would actually progress the story. Because if she catches him and actually starts venting her anger on him, it would further push him away in this instance.

Sending a servant to bring the boy medicine is brilliant, and would kill two birds with one stone: it humanizes 4th sister (and she definitely needs it 😆) and allows her to find out the cousin saw everything. I really like that detail! As for where it'll go from there, I think she should feel a little vulnerable at him witnessing such a raw display of emotion, and that makes her even angrier. But I don't want her to lash out again. This is tricky. Maybe she should approach him and try to explain herself/threaten him not to tell Grandma Rong and Shan Bao since she's not supposed to be near the tea fields, and they'd be mad that she assaulted an employee? Then maybe it could be followed up by a small moment of levity that makes the cousin go, "Hmm...maybe she's alright." I don't have any ideas for after, though. 

 Arclei:

SCARE PEOPLE!! Embrace being weird!!!

Only around this club + extremely close friends 😆

Not everyone gets personality privileges.

 potatocouch:

and western media with witches, wizards, and dragons (think Game of Thrones)

Okay but that's still FANTASY- I'll be watching this down-to-earth nitty gritty super realistic cdrama, like, idk Black Sails or Vikings and THEN SEE THEM FLY- like IT'S IN EVERYTHING, GIRL- 

 potatocouch:

The fact that the mistreatment of woman is always what's kept when authors use magical realism is telling.

Fuming. The one thing everyone wants to keep in their writing is misogyny <3

 potatocouch:

傲雪 (Ào Xuě) or  傲霜 (Ào Shuāng)

I love both, but I think I prefer Ao Xue 💖

I love the meanings you pick, tying into her character with both characters! I was also leaning into one meaning 'strength/resilience' and the addition of the purity motif is both ironic and also good commentary! 

Let's go with that one! Would Ao be her surname or would Aoxue be her given name?

I did a quick google search and also found that it can mean "proudly enduring snow" and is compared to the imagery of a flower blooming in the winter snow, which is also kinda based! But finding actual definitions on Chinese names is... hard to say the least so idk how reliable that is, haha. 

 potatocouch:

Oh, it would definitely need to be a scandal 😏 Which would be on brand for one of the Rong family's "troublemakers". I'm thinking once our OC finds out he's from the wealthy, powerful Rong family where women are taken seriously, she could compromise him. 

YES, FINALLY, A SCANDAL! I mean, ahem, yes, I conquer. Oooh, this would be so juicy~ 

 potatocouch:

then the next time you see them, the butler is kicking him out of the household

.................................... yas give us nothing. So much set up for that??? Wtf?

 potatocouch:

TELL ME YOU'VE STARTED!!!

Mayhaaaapsssss~

 potatocouch:

I barely watch it. I'm worried my tone/style might be too modern for it

A bridgerton oneshot? Now THAT'S interesting XD Maybe I'm a bit too deep into my "embrace the cringe" era of my life that even if I write something poorly, I'm not critical of myself and will continue to write poorly until I don't anymore, but I don't really notice writing historical to be all that different from contemporary? 

Especially with a historical drama as loosy woosy as Glory, I don't think it'd matter even if that were the case. But, I'd say... give it a try? You won't know until you've done it, right? I'd love to read it! 

 potatocouch:

I'll let you skip rent this month if I can read these.

Chat, I'm cooked 😭😭

 potatocouch:

The ML and SFL had way more chemistry. 

OKAY SO IT WASN'T JUST ME WHO THOUGHT THIS- I'm also not big on that dynamic cuz yikes (always found Pocahontas weird for this reason. Like my child brain didn't get it but it was still weird). But for my sick fantasies, I'll indulge it. Specifically that scene where she rescues him from the hospital and keeps him in her home...? What if she didn't let him go 😈 

 potatocouch:

Oooohhh, interesting...😏 Is it a substantial plot point or do they pull a Princess Decree? What's ML's dynamic with the FL?

IM GLAD YOU ASKED 

The dynamic lasts until episode 17 and is a MAIN plot point >:) (tho a lot of the risky scenes were implied but we still got fed goooooodddddddd) After that the drama isn't worth watching imo so you can either drop it there or watch it faster until the end. It DELIVERS what The Princess Decree wanted to but didn't DARE. She's VIIIIILLEEEEEEEEEE

I don't even wanna post any gifs cuz it's a lvl of unhinged I need you to experience uninterrupted on your own but girl, despite that shite ending, it's still one of my favssss, uuugugghhhh

I'll just post this 

And ML and FL have an super sweet and tender egalitarian dynamic (with some RR elements by proxy of his situation)with an 'us against the world' kinda soothing comfort. FL yearns so fucking much and is down tremendously for ML (like, she can't get enough of bro) and he's a bit aloof cuz he's a proud scholar but he's also so downtrodden so I'll allow it. See? Some of my fav dramas end up having egalitarian dynamics. Do I wish the leads would've been a bit more RR? Yes... Yes I do. But they still did really good

 potatocouch:

As for where it'll go from there, I think she should feel a little vulnerable at him witnessing such a raw display of emotion, and that makes her even angrier. But I don't want her to lash out again. This is tricky. Maybe she should approach him and try to explain herself/threaten him not to tell Grandma Rong and Shan Bao since she's not supposed to be near the tea fields, and they'd be mad that she assaulted an employee? Then maybe it could be followed up by a small moment of levity that makes the cousin go, "Hmm...maybe she's alright." I don't have any ideas for after, though. 

It's a difficult position 'cause it's not really something one can ignore but using it to develop their relationship romantically feels wrong. I propose.... it goes as you said, she confronts him about it and threatens him to not tell on her. Because he's scared, he agrees and things proceed as normal, only that he's still very shaken by it... Somehow either Shenbao or Grandma Rong (or both) end up hearing about it, maybe the servant boy gets found out, maybe he reports it, maybe the boy-cousin lets it slip during a conversation about suspicious activity seen in the tea fields one night (I like this idea the best because he'd totally be the kind to blurt something out unintentionally + that involves him personally) and BOOM, 4th sister is punished. I propose making her kneel in front of the ancestral home during the rain for a day+ for EXTRA ANGST!!!! <3 

Boy-cousin ends up hearing about her punishment and feels guilty, especially after she's been kneeling for so long so we have the classic holding the umbrella over her moment where he chooses to endure partial punishment with her because he feels guilty for her punishment AND for the servant she punished on his behalf. They could have a quiet little raw moment where 4th sister is very unwell but like... sad angry. Maybe she breaks down and just has a good angry cry about it? Hmmm~ And boy-cousin is just stunned, staring, unsure of how to respond. Maybe some slight comfort? idk...

Then she faints and gets sick and boy-cousin goes to visit her while she's recovering and she's half delirious and being kinda clingy and he has a moment of hesitance cuz she doesn't seem so bad like this... 

I think this would be a good explosive resolution to the situation that also serves consequences to 4th sister's actions, to boy-cousin's inaction, and also builds their relationship a bit further... Maybe even with a tender moment here and there... 

I've been craving a good ol made to kneel in the rain RR scene for FOREVERRRRRRRR- so... this would definitely scratch that itch

 potatocouch:

Not everyone gets personality privileges.

You know what? Valid. 

Not us literally replying at the same time xD

 Arclei:

Like either give her a harem or DON'T

Yes!! Like just pick one, either she has a proper harem or don´t give her multiple "love interests" (if you can actually call them that when the author has a clear front runner that is clearly going to be end-game). 

 Arclei:

She had all those men exactly where she wanted them (on their knees) 

The definition of "don´t save them, they´re exactly where they want to be" xD 

 Arclei:

Currently watching: Pursuit of Jade (ep 7)

Finally, a historical idol drama that I'm actually really liking! Great vibes, great quality, and great writing! The pacing is tight, the characters endearing, the dynamics compelling, the cinematography stunning, the story compelling, and the acting good. I don't really have many complaints so far save for some nitpicks. 

Yes! I love this show!<3 I had high hopes before I started watching , was worried I would be dissapointed but I love the show so far (ep 9)!

The production is great,  vibes, visual, characters as well.  I actually like that the ML is quite competent, I would not mind if he wasn´t, but I do think it works well here with the story, (as we know it so far at least). There is something about having a competent ML but the FL be the protector without ML being  condescending, even if he is kind of undercover here , that I find endering.

 FL is probably my current favorite character, the fact that she is so strong and self assured, while still having those moments of insecurity where she is scared ML will find her gross or scary makes her a bit more relatable. Also FLs little sister is one the few child characters that I actually like and don´t just tolerate, so that is a bonus ^^

 newbifantrack:

Yes! I love this show!<3 I had high hopes before I started watching , was worried I would be dissapointed but I love the show so far (ep 9)!

I was the same! I had been anticipating this drama for very long and the trailers seemed so promising but after my recent disappointments, I was scared... Thankfully, this director came in clutch yet again.

 newbifantrack:

I actually like that the ML is quite competent

It works well for the story because the writing is very intentional and it does good set-up work so it doesn't just feel like yet another hyper-competent ML that's good at everything.... because he's the ML and nothing else. I also really like how it tackles him getting to experience being the 'weak', cherished, and protected one and how it's changing his mentality. You can just tell he's gone through hell and seeing someone be so willing to cherish him is really nice. I love how they're handling this. 

I'm just generally really tired of seeing hyper-competent MLs in literally every. single. drama. If he cannot outperform a professional in every field, then he's unworthy of being the ML and it's tiring. This drama doesn't do that, tho. Yeah, he has his ML-flair but it's a lot more believable and toned-down. 

 newbifantrack:

the fact that she is so strong and self assured, while still having those moments of insecurity where she is scared ML will find her gross or scary

Yes! She's not a caricature of a woman, but actually a believable woman with both strengths and weaknesses

As for her little sister... SHE'S ADORABLE!!!!! 

 amdream_weaver:

I have been hearing really good stuff on the historical page too. And now that I know it serves RR, definitely intrigued!

It's quite the gem!! 

 newbifantrack:

You can tell that, in the begining, he has no idea how to be the one taken care of and he is uncomfortable

1000% and it's really tender. Seeing him be shocked by her protectiveness and pampering nature is incredible (as of ep 7 he's still surprised by it, so I'm looking forward to seeing him get more used to it). The writing is clever, which makes these kinda developments feel rewarding 

 newbifantrack:

At that point it almost just stops feeling like the ML is even human and for me it takes away from the overall stroy.

Omg, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss- I keep complaining about this 😭😭😭 but that shit is everywhere. It's especially infuriating when they take the spotlight away from the FL and just snatch all of her skills for himself while also having his own skillset, and ugh, bro- why even bother writing a force of nature like that as the MC and then put that kinda character everywhere. It's giving wish-fulfillment shonen media, but in the worst way. 

They're TERRIFIED of a woman outclassing a man and of men not being good at everything. It's crazy. Anything FL can do, he can do better.

 newbifantrack:

doesn´t feel like a real woman. Everyone has insecurities, even the most confident people.

Yeah, agreed!! "girlboss" characters have a tendency to be rather shallow (which as I mentioned above, is the same for boyboss characters, lol). Not sure if it's because of the fear of backlash or because creators really think having flaws makes a character weak and thus not the strong badass they're going for. It's weird.... but it makes one appreciate dramas that can write a believable, strong woman