good drama? how are the women in it? excited to watch but i avoided it a bit bc, as much as i adore GHJ, i want to throttle her characters sometimes!!! but still she's amazing... i love a good thriller too...worth watching?
I love this show overall. I don’t agree that DB is too self pitying, she’s actually too hard on herself and…
reading comments to see if i should watch the show and i'm so glad there's a lot of GHJ fans. i think any of her fans would feel the same, which is kinda why i avoided this drama but it sounds too good...i have watched every drama of hers too and she is so phenomenal but i WISH she would pick characters that weren't so weak-willed sometimes. she's so wonderful why is she attracted to those roles? but i guess atp she has been typecast, too
edit: i literally wrote one thing and critiqued it. you cannot be that upset over me stating an opinion on this…
this is not an argument and it is not up for debate like some of you seem to think. i don't care what you have to say in response if it is a reply trying to argue with me over things i think are non-arguable. these are my thoughts based on the show, these comments, and the content.
hopefully people who want to see something different, a different perspective, a nuanced look, that doesn't just throw words at a wall hoping they stick, can get something out of it like the kind user that messaged me so they could learn more about what plenty have researched! if you are not able to understand this, then this is very obviously not for you or your brain. i'm sorry i cannot walk you through the steps of simple logic and reading comprehension
"please grow up and stop replying to me telling me why you think rape is okay. thanks."No one said "rape is ok".…
i'm not arguing over my opinion. i am not trying to get anyone to agree with me. i know that i'm right, truly your thoughts don't affect mine. i wrote my comment for any person that wants a different perspective. i didn't personally @ all of you or criticize you.
if you think that me expressing discontent over a failure to have a nuanced conversation then that shows me that you didn't understand what i said. thus you think a non-argument, when you are an absolute non-factor, is one. and, shocker of all shocks, you don't care to actually read, learn, or respond since you literally think i'm arguing. guess what? it's not 4 u!
They're in year 12, which in Taiwan is typically 17-18 years old. Meanwhile, the age of consent in Taiwan is 16.But…
of course but they are at completely different stages in life and the gaps become smaller as we get older, but that's aging and there's incredibly diff power dynamics
Well, they don't know what is "consent" in these BL series (and well, not only in BL series, it's truly a problem…
keep going. we support you. and as an artist i believe wholeheartedly that we have a responsibility. it's poor storytelling and a complete erasure of valid critique of rape culture, bls, and the female viewer because people cannot accept they are enjoying a romance based on sexual abuse. so they have to lie about it.
and i admire you just wanting to say something. me, too. and i hope other people will even if they have to argue with incredibly rude pedants. the more we critique and let ourselves be heard, other people can maybe form their opinions and research too!
due to some odd hurt feelings i must edit my post because some people have had a hard time understanding the very…
your inability to read properly or with nuance does not mean you can cast incredibly false aspersions on my character. do your research, dont ask me to answer stupid questions. don't invoke homophobia in a statement that you cannot seem to comprehend. your feelings are hurt, fine. but you are lying at this point and i do not think it is acceptable to call me a homophobe. in fact, it is not. so refrain.
if you are consistently getting bodied on the internet because you have nothing of value to add but insults and conspiracy theories, then claim that you will stop replying then stop replying. stop talking to me or about me. mind your business.
OK. I will be honest. Some stuff in your posting does not make sense to me. What I get is that you are concerned…
i gave this some thought and if you are open to reading what i say and not diverting from the topic or making up conspiracy theories, i will answer to the best of my ability (on ambien.)
what about my post confuses you? i watch bl, i enjoy some that doesnt have to explicitly mean i think it's good from a production to story to acting standpoint.
i do not think this show is a good thing nor do i think the woman who wrote it wrote something tenable enough for it to be called so. i think her idea is egregious and insulting. i wholeheartedly reject the notion that we may write this off as "fantasy" or unreal. these are very real situations based in context of literal human history. if you cannot find it in you to treat your characters with respect....to not explicitly expand on an incredible issue that we face as people, yet instead portray predatory behavior as almost retribution and a prelude to romance (as many do)? that's a problem.
you mentioned misogyny in thai bl. yes we do talk about it. just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. you're not paying attention or searching then. the notion that misogyny in any dramas is acceptable to see and not critiqued is false. adding to that, the persistent portrayal of rape in dramas or emotional distress/abuse/control is a problem. in bl, even with two men, there is an underlying theme of patriarchal standard (and truly patriarchy has no gender) and that makes sense considering this genre and where it is most prevalent--gaining a post-colonial perspective would further understanding on the merits and problems of it. it subverts gender, yet executes it poorly. it can hurt people and it can help people.
great. it does not seem to use its story to explain to people, via storytelling, the issues that surround it both within the world the characters live in and our physical world in which we watch. it doesn't seem to subvert more as put a failed system and view on sex and relationships into two "male" bodies as opposed to a man and a woman.
i am not talking about learning informed consent. i'm talking about something existing, it being critiqued, and viewers cannot tell the difference between valid critique and whatever slight they find the critique to have made against them. WE may not learn explicitly from what we see, but something becomes common enough it's easier to justify--younger people (though not limited to them) do stumble upon these things. and rather than learning what not to do as a reaction or how to think through it, how to treat yourself and a victim in a conversation, or even identify when garbage is garbage they learn how to justify assault, control, abuse. they can say things like "he liked it omg!" or they can see other people reply to me saying that because he was a homophobe the rape was like just punishment (which lol leading to rape as retribution compounded on top of the horrors of corrective rape) and he actually liked it.
does that not seem absurd to you? that we push back against the notion that love can be born out of this intense violation of self and the horrific trauma that brings? it's not posited as dark (though that wouldnt justify it) or really a tale on how to fuck up so bad you can't come back from it. not even on how we seek justice or heal ourselves (it would make the perpetrator have to NOT BE PRESENT FOR A LONG TIME) but romance. romance predicated on having yourself violated in an egregious manner then having viewers equate that punishment, crime, awful awful thing as a response to his homophobia. well, he will unlearn his homophobia. he won't get his strength back for a while. most likely he'll be afraid of others, he'll hurt himself, he'll have to consistently cope. it is simply not this easy and, no matter what others think, the shallowness is the problem not an excuse.
i'm obviously not preaching to the choir. particularly because your last line is actually incorrect. while men learn these behaviors socially it is not just straight men--men of all sexualities enact their power over women all the time--and they learn that when one is weak (or impaired) they can take advantage of that. assault, rape, control, abuse has no gender but is compounded by gender and its politics via white supremacy, capital, colonialism, you name it we got it. so, yes, all eyes on it matter. and how we interpret it matters. i reject the interpretations that people think acceptable to say. i just wanted one comment to state that in a sea of good comments. if it is something you're unable to understand or cannot handle, that's on you.
edit: i literally wrote one thing and critiqued it. you cannot be that upset over me stating an opinion on this…
due to some odd hurt feelings i must edit my post because some people have had a hard time understanding the very simple concepts i have written out. sexual assault (google definition), force, coercion (google) is not romantic (google.)
if one tries to silence critique of it, another someone must wonder why this person would do that! if it's just entertainment then critique of content is also just entertainment. it shouldnt matter! but this makes people angry. don't know why. anyway. presumably, a normal, non-threatening human sees content that is largely considered to be detrimental and regressive in portrayal if it is romantic. i have faith in people, but if this eludes you...google.
because a character is terribly odious does that mean that he should be raped? does that mean that the character enjoyed the rape? that characters in general enjoy this? no, no it does not. some users would lead you to believe so. but it doesn't.
as a woman (google) i just wanted to point out why criticism of anything that is public and controversial, no matter how common it is to you, (loving seeing a guy force his tongue in2 another guy's mouth) is ok. i urge me, us, you, everyone to watch and explore. you even learn with garbage content and writing. but a lot of our enjoyment will come to romance and, if you are being honest, of course the parameters of this "romance" would startle you. and it is within reason to have people point out that those parameters are unacceptable.
rape is not something that can be glossed over, it is not romantic to partner with your rapist. oversimplifying an incredibly complex set of factors and power dynamics is insulting. this is a very real critique of the actual content and writing and also social implications.
media can be criticized. people can watch whatever they want but for viewers, young ones, people starting their journey into being radzoomers it's imperative to keep an open eye! and don't let what you see become normal even if it's media! detect the bullshit. if you choose to enjoy this show just know what it is you are watching. keep an open eye and be aware. and do not listen to people who type things like "he liked it." ever. if it isnt preceded with "rape is bad. he liked it when he beat his rapist's ass"
wanted to be the one few commenters that explain this and say this since the arguments presented are ridiculous. because one day people are going to look back at these posts and if they have any sense of self, they'll realize these were terrible things to say. terrible things to apologize for. and also it was really embarrassing that i had to clarify something quite simple...that was clarified above.
And you are here because of what?Trying to preach a certain dogma about certain religions you have?I bet you probably…
The same is true of other polemicists in the same vein, whom Burgis calls the “logicbros.” These guys erroneously charge their opponents with various fallacies as a kind of antagonistic score keeping and are all too quick to accuse those they disagree with of ad hominems, appeals to authority and so on, without really engaging their positions in good faith or being attentive to the actual nature of these (often informal) fallacies. Burgis also develops a rather funny critique of far-right icon Stefan Molyneux, who consistently dismisses left-wing positions by claiming that x is not an argument. As Burgis points out, the claim that x is not an argument is itself not an argument but an assertion, which is problematic, especially given that Molyneux often struggles when trying to critique his opponents’ positions in any detail and seems reticent to actually debate them.
2 
hopefully people who want to see something different, a different perspective, a nuanced look, that doesn't just throw words at a wall hoping they stick, can get something out of it like the kind user that messaged me so they could learn more about what plenty have researched! if you are not able to understand this, then this is very obviously not for you or your brain. i'm sorry i cannot walk you through the steps of simple logic and reading comprehension
if you think that me expressing discontent over a failure to have a nuanced conversation then that shows me that you didn't understand what i said. thus you think a non-argument, when you are an absolute non-factor, is one. and, shocker of all shocks, you don't care to actually read, learn, or respond since you literally think i'm arguing. guess what? it's not 4 u!
and i admire you just wanting to say something. me, too. and i hope other people will even if they have to argue with incredibly rude pedants. the more we critique and let ourselves be heard, other people can maybe form their opinions and research too!
if you are consistently getting bodied on the internet because you have nothing of value to add but insults and conspiracy theories, then claim that you will stop replying then stop replying. stop talking to me or about me. mind your business.
what about my post confuses you? i watch bl, i enjoy some that doesnt have to explicitly mean i think it's good from a production to story to acting standpoint.
i do not think this show is a good thing nor do i think the woman who wrote it wrote something tenable enough for it to be called so. i think her idea is egregious and insulting. i wholeheartedly reject the notion that we may write this off as "fantasy" or unreal. these are very real situations based in context of literal human history. if you cannot find it in you to treat your characters with respect....to not explicitly expand on an incredible issue that we face as people, yet instead portray predatory behavior as almost retribution and a prelude to romance (as many do)? that's a problem.
you mentioned misogyny in thai bl. yes we do talk about it. just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. you're not paying attention or searching then. the notion that misogyny in any dramas is acceptable to see and not critiqued is false. adding to that, the persistent portrayal of rape in dramas or emotional distress/abuse/control is a problem. in bl, even with two men, there is an underlying theme of patriarchal standard (and truly patriarchy has no gender) and that makes sense considering this genre and where it is most prevalent--gaining a post-colonial perspective would further understanding on the merits and problems of it. it subverts gender, yet executes it poorly. it can hurt people and it can help people.
great. it does not seem to use its story to explain to people, via storytelling, the issues that surround it both within the world the characters live in and our physical world in which we watch. it doesn't seem to subvert more as put a failed system and view on sex and relationships into two "male" bodies as opposed to a man and a woman.
i am not talking about learning informed consent. i'm talking about something existing, it being critiqued, and viewers cannot tell the difference between valid critique and whatever slight they find the critique to have made against them. WE may not learn explicitly from what we see, but something becomes common enough it's easier to justify--younger people (though not limited to them) do stumble upon these things. and rather than learning what not to do as a reaction or how to think through it, how to treat yourself and a victim in a conversation, or even identify when garbage is garbage they learn how to justify assault, control, abuse. they can say things like "he liked it omg!" or they can see other people reply to me saying that because he was a homophobe the rape was like just punishment (which lol leading to rape as retribution compounded on top of the horrors of corrective rape) and he actually liked it.
does that not seem absurd to you? that we push back against the notion that love can be born out of this intense violation of self and the horrific trauma that brings? it's not posited as dark (though that wouldnt justify it) or really a tale on how to fuck up so bad you can't come back from it. not even on how we seek justice or heal ourselves (it would make the perpetrator have to NOT BE PRESENT FOR A LONG TIME) but romance. romance predicated on having yourself violated in an egregious manner then having viewers equate that punishment, crime, awful awful thing as a response to his homophobia. well, he will unlearn his homophobia. he won't get his strength back for a while. most likely he'll be afraid of others, he'll hurt himself, he'll have to consistently cope. it is simply not this easy and, no matter what others think, the shallowness is the problem not an excuse.
i'm obviously not preaching to the choir. particularly because your last line is actually incorrect. while men learn these behaviors socially it is not just straight men--men of all sexualities enact their power over women all the time--and they learn that when one is weak (or impaired) they can take advantage of that. assault, rape, control, abuse has no gender but is compounded by gender and its politics via white supremacy, capital, colonialism, you name it we got it. so, yes, all eyes on it matter. and how we interpret it matters. i reject the interpretations that people think acceptable to say. i just wanted one comment to state that in a sea of good comments. if it is something you're unable to understand or cannot handle, that's on you.
if one tries to silence critique of it, another someone must wonder why this person would do that! if it's just entertainment then critique of content is also just entertainment. it shouldnt matter! but this makes people angry. don't know why.
anyway. presumably, a normal, non-threatening human sees content that is largely considered to be detrimental and regressive in portrayal if it is romantic. i have faith in people, but if this eludes you...google.
because a character is terribly odious does that mean that he should be raped? does that mean that the character enjoyed the rape? that characters in general enjoy this? no, no it does not. some users would lead you to believe so. but it doesn't.
as a woman (google) i just wanted to point out why criticism of anything that is public and controversial, no matter how common it is to you, (loving seeing a guy force his tongue in2 another guy's mouth) is ok. i urge me, us, you, everyone to watch and explore. you even learn with garbage content and writing. but a lot of our enjoyment will come to romance and, if you are being honest, of course the parameters of this "romance" would startle you. and it is within reason to have people point out that those parameters are unacceptable.
rape is not something that can be glossed over, it is not romantic to partner with your rapist. oversimplifying an incredibly complex set of factors and power dynamics is insulting. this is a very real critique of the actual content and writing and also social implications.
media can be criticized. people can watch whatever they want but for viewers, young ones, people starting their journey into being radzoomers it's imperative to keep an open eye! and don't let what you see become normal even if it's media! detect the bullshit. if you choose to enjoy this show just know what it is you are watching. keep an open eye and be aware. and do not listen to people who type things like "he liked it." ever. if it isnt preceded with "rape is bad. he liked it when he beat his rapist's ass"
wanted to be the one few commenters that explain this and say this since the arguments presented are ridiculous. because one day people are going to look back at these posts and if they have any sense of self, they'll realize these were terrible things to say. terrible things to apologize for. and also it was really embarrassing that i had to clarify something quite simple...that was clarified above.
have a nice night