P Lam

No kiddin

Probably not but we shall see….

You are more eloquent than I am on this topic. The actress who plays XYY is really excellent in her role. It would be easy to overact such a character but she did it with ease and authenticity. Truly a good actress.

You make me laugh when you said “someone had a totally different ( and wrong…) understanding.” LOL. I’ m all for respectful exchanges and I understand too that sometimes the fingers type faster than the brain so I try to give the benefit of the doubt. However, when I see others imply some of us don’t know what We are talking about due to a difference of opinions or don’t have Chinese sensitivity, whatever that is, then I do speak up because in the society I live in, remaining silent means you agree. I am also not just speaking for myself but for many who are connected through this forum and may not feel comfortable in speaking out for fear of saying something wrong. This is an awesome forum. But I have not had so much exchange of opinions until now. As you say, certain things just reach out and touch us.

I think it is a very Chinese thing to belittle your kids, and parents unfortunately pass that down. I think,it’s happening less and less when parents are more enlightened. I’m surprised to hear that in China many cnetizens still say they are being being belittled by parents. I would have thought with the one child policy, they’d be treated better, like treasures but there are a lot of kids left behind in villages with grandparents or alone while parents go off elsewhere to work. So child abandonment is still happening today. Sometimes, when I see things made in China, I wonder if any kids were left behind by parents who made the items that I have in my hand.

Yes good question. I wonder about that too, why is she a bitch?

I think I was just trying to say, it’s not just a modern or westernized way of looking at such behavior if one disapprove or cannot condone such behaviors and I have experienced such situations myself and there is no recourse. I am not as lucky as you. My parents like boys over girls and they are blatant about it. I know online, it’s difficult to determine where a person is from or their background or life experiences.

I totally agree with you. I still hold out hope for mother daughter redemption. In fact I thought XYY redeemed herself at LY’s house when the engagement was broken but then this happens and I am not happy with her again. As I said before it’s a character in the drama. We all have our loves and hates.

I understand where you are coming from and my own mother told me countless of times she was punishing me for my own good, so traditional Chinese values and methods have not changed that much. Yes in olden days, it was harsher and less free.. I just don’t condone XYY’s methods and I don’t have to like the XYY character. We just have to agree to disagree. And I come from a very traditional Chinese family where one great aunt, though she was taken care of by her daughter for many years, chose to move back to her son’s house on her deathbed because it was shameful for her to die at her daughter’s house. . It’s not just in olden times that one encounters such cultural elements. It depends on your family. Maybe to many, these values and methods are ancient, but If you have not experienced it, it doesn’t mean it’s not continuing. I am not going to launder my family’s shortcomings here but I have seen a lot of these issues in my very large extended family and they are not pretty. So it’s not just a modern outlook on life. Chinese value obedient children (tin Hua), was told to never talk back to parents, filal piety is number 1 above all else. I heard that before I heard about patriotism which I learned from school. I already wrote a lot in one of the treads below about how I disapprove of that kind of behavior so I’ll be brief here. It so happened that the behavior exhibited came from this character, a mother in this drama. It is not against motherhood or ancient Chinese parenting. IMHO, it’s her behavior that is inappropriate without hashing out whether she loves her daughter or not. I’ve also done som research into how women were treated during the Han dynasty. It’s not like they were all downtrodden. It was only after the Song Dynasty that Chinese woman really lost out
https://www.taiwan-panorama.com/Articles/Details?Guid=c1c89f4a-13be-4213-9677-65bc07118bcd&langId=3&CatId=8
Another link. Scroll down till you see imperial China, then choose Han dynasty https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_ancient_and_imperial_China

Curious, What Russian elements.? Russia shares a border with China. Some people imply that some Chinese living near the boarder have European features because of intermarriage.

I agree with you if it is a known shrine for criminals though some people visit for the shock effect and not for honoring - men especially. I saw a video where some director said that the shrine in question was one of the recommended sights to visit in the approved China tour book for 20 years but once he brought that issue up, that tour book disappeared from circulation and he was shuttered.

I agree with you about another ethnicity wearing the qipao. It is a big compliment to the Chinese culture if they want to wear it. Though I would not wear a kimono because it does not appeal to me, I like vintage kimono silks. They are so beautiful. And it was Japanese men who started the war and aggression. In fact, if I read correctly, the main military guy killed the other leader who advocated peace right before the WW 2. I have always maintained that if there were more women leaders and heads of state, there would be less wars - less testerstorone and war mongering all around.

I watched queen lau because of the controversy and I’m up to Ep 18 and I thought the costume controversy is much over nothing. Yes some cherry blossom fabric and maybe dangles on hairpins shortened but maybe it was to enhance the actress’s face. I thought it was the Chinese that influenced the Japanese costumes? After all, there are still Chinese characters in the written Japanese language. Who’s to say way back when, the bow knot or whatever was not invented in China but never got popular? There was so much exchange of trade and therefore culture and even religion through the silk route and Chinese exploration and conquests.

I know the anti Japanese feelings due to war and Japan not willing to admit guilt. My own parents and my in laws went through Japanese occupation and suffered but it’s time to move on but not forget. If costume is inaccurate , maybe call the costume designers out? It will definitely give a chilling effect for future costume design but to punish a whole industry seem such a waste of time and effort. Not to mention delay of our beloved drama. It’s like if one classmate stole, instead of punishing that classmate, the entire school is punished. Also shuttering a person because they visited a shrine is also too much. When I was about to visit Japan during cherry blossom festival, guide books suggested certain shrines that had good cherry blossom viewing. I have no clue which shrine is for criminals and the guides don’t say

But maybe this controversy is to take people’s minds off more serious issues like Covid lockdowns and I hear there is now a run on banks in certain Chinese cities

Very good analogy. And then when the kid gets home, cane the shit out of them. LOL. No I didn’t mean the caning though that did happen to me once when I was in the bottom 1/4 of my class. But you did made an excellent point.

Wow, calling her a bitch is harsh, she didn’t want to give LY up but she realizes after seeing HZJ, she has to do the right thing though it is actually unfair to her. And HZJ still so mean to her. Basically when she got engaged to Prince Xiao, she did her family in because Prince Xiao’s objective was to get her family to side with him to rebel. I think her father had something to do with arms. Even the emperor hesitated when he heard of their nuptials. LBY had to tell HZJ nobody owes her anything and least of all SS . SS already had her plans mapped out with LY and now she is back to square 1. If she had not initiated the breakup with LY, he would not have agreed either. She reasoned with him why they should separate. She didn’t yell and scream at him or HJZ but cried in the carriage with LBY. That says a lot. Also the fact that she is able to show her true feelings in front onLBY says a lot too. She is not afraid of showing her true self to him.

I agree. At least XYY has not killed any of her relatives or children

Yes I think the emperor saw through them because he and empress met her briefly before the proposal and saw that this child is honest and unaffected by giles though she might be rough around the edges

Yes, I was especially upset with the ending which could have been funny but was instead bitter sweet

For those of us who are daughters, I’m sure most of us are appalled. Many of us are used to criticism, and sometimes public, from hyper critical tiger mums, but for XYY to basically character assassinate her daughter in public is degrading. In that era, she might as well have ruined SS for good. She could have just said “SS is too young and needs further education and refinement since she had been neglected since birth while we were at war” . The” at war” ( for god and country) should move everyone. But here’s what she said:
“My daughter has lacked upbringing and discipline since childhood. Her unruly behavior is unacceptable. Ever since I‘ve been home, she fails in academic study, also fails in martial practices. …If Shaoshang weren’t my own daughter, if such a woman wants to be married to be Cheng family I would definitely not agree ( wow did she really need to say this?). If another Cheng daughter is considered,and receive Your majesty’s affection and blessing, our Cheng family would be honored. Your majesty, Shaoshang is quick to oppose and fight fiercely. I fear if she really married General Ling, she would cause him disgrace and implicate the lives of the entire Cheng family. Your majesty, this is a great marriage but SS herself cannot match up to it….. since ancient times, we aren’t supposed to air out dirty laundry from one’s family. I wanted to save my daughter some respect, but she really cannot be handed important duties. General Ling, you have met my daughter only for a short time . She may look clever and adorable, but she is actually argumentative and behave recklessly.” In rewatching this scene, it seems she meant every word she said and to me, showed her deep seated resentment of her daughter which she may not even be aware of. Since this was said with so many people around, as others have mentioned, no body would want to marry or be friends with such a terrible person. If she really cared for her daughter (ok, in my mind, she still has many episodes left to redeem herself) and had some compassion for her daughter, she should have and could have just stopped after her first sentence. It was as if she aired her dissatisfaction for all to hear. It just ties in with the thesis that she was trying to save her own reputation from having such a daughter and and implying it’s not her fault. It was her husband who said it was their fault. And for such a supposed terrible daughter, SS she didn’t throw her mother under the bus but said when asked by the emperor if all her mother said was the truth, SS said, even though she was so upset, “every word from my mother is true. With such poor character and conduct that even my own mother looks down on me, how can I match up to the supremely elegant General Ling.” Just so gut wrenching and it shows that she has horse sense and is not unruly and uncouth. But why are we arguing whether if mother loves daughter or not.? Regardless of whether she loves her daughter or not, You don’t feel it is degrading and unacceptable if someone said this to you in a public forum, let alone your mother in front the royal family and their staff when marriage is proposed? A big note- We are not here to chastise mothers . We are saying this type of behavior and acting out is inappropriate but it so happen to be the behavior of a mother, the character in the drama. I’m not understanding why some people are so offended by us calling such behavior out. I am not saying it’s you because you’ve been nice about it. This is a public forum where we can share our thoughts which you have every right to do so. It’s ok to try to sway each other but I feel some people earlier on were lashing out at others for what they see is an attack on mothers and not the character in the drama and her behavior. For whatever reasons, the topic of mothers disciplining children is an emotionally charged issue. After all this, I feel like a nagging mum . LOL. And yikes!

You probably don’t want to read before watching the drama. I’ve always regretted reading novel right before watching the drama. It will blunt my enjoyment of the drama. Happened to me in WRTW. Reading the excerpts here and there is fine.

Excellent writing. Love your description of how YS is yanking SS’s chain. So apt.