Flypsyde

Cultural appropriation is a positive thing, a sign of growth and change and openness to civilizations other than one's own. One culture invented the wheel, another the wide-brimmed, sun-protective hat. Should other cultures have prohibited themselves from adopting those very-useful inventions because it would have been rude to do so?

Now, if something from one culture is used by another to subjugate, conquer, murder or destroy, that's another question, but I would probably argue we're not even talking about the same thing in that case.

What, exactly, do you consider "cultural appropriation" to be? Does the appropriation you claim to see in this case somehow humiliate or denigrate sikhs or indians? You'd say "yes." I'd say "get a life and maybe a sense of humor."

I disagree with you on a final point: people such as yourself who hold the view we are debating are generally uptight and unsmiling to an extreme. Their minute-to-minute quest for "problematic" things to be offended by takes much of the joy out of their lives and, if we let them, they'd like to take the joy from others as well.

Generally speaking, I mean pure, unadulterated, free of grime or dirt or other inconvenient things like human passion or messy, complicated feelings/desires, at least on the surface. Everything appears to be super-clean and tidy, especially the characters' emotions. If anyone gets angry or upset, it usually veers into over-acting and melodrama. Even the sets and costumes: everything is gorgeous and lovely and spotless, without a trace of the dust or age or rough edges you'd see in living space set in this time and place..

All cultures appropriate aspects of other cultures into their own. It has been this way for thousands of years and it is silly to pretend otherwise, which won't stop the SJW BL crowd here from doing it anyway. If I'm thinking of the same bits in the story that you are, then I think it's fun and hilarious.

I think that bit with the shippers came off clunky and self-conscious, like a PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT on behalf of those BL fans who get bent out of shape by shippers, who are a staple of the BL genre and the BL fandom. I don't think the shippers bother Mork one bit. He likes it.

I LIKE disturbing stories. The more disturbing the better. If what I read in a comment above is true, then they should definitely make a series about it, but NOT clean it up like so many BLs do. What's the point of adapting a popular, successful dark story into some light and fluffy piece of shit?

I get what you wrote in the first paragraph of your comment and completely agree. Except about the BF/GF. They don't even like each other, it's not just her, although she is an outright, complete and utter stone-cold bitch from the very beginning. OK...you're going to say the writers want it that way. Well then they are obligated to show us WHY JW, an intelligent, likeable, thoughtful guy, would put up with this. Maybe you're correct. The relationship is supposed to be this way. Great. Show me why either of them stays in it.

Are they just too lazy to break it off? Does JW have a masochistic streak and actually sort of gets off on being treated like shit because he fears he's a loser and doesn't deserve any better? OK, show me some of that reasoning. Show me some of what their relationship USED to be like before she went to Seoul and he followed? Was it always shitty? OK, show me some of that.

Much of your comment is insulting so I won't go to lengths to respond, but I've been around a long time and I am NOT looking for puppy dog and rainbows, touchy-feely lovey dovey portrayals of all relationships. That would be boring of course, and you are presenting a straw-man argument of black/white, either/or that I did not make in my comments about this poorly portrayed relationship. I am NOT interested in black and white/good and bad portrayals of any situation or relatiosnships, precisely because to me the universe is almost entirely gray, except at the fringes where there's a little, teeny-tiny range of white and black. That's a big, wonderful aspect of this show, a point Vampire Man makes repeatedly. The killer is in all of us to some degree. But do we choose to indulge it? That's another question.

I never said I "didn't like" JW and his GF's relationship. I said in general that it is poorly written and unexplained. In psychological terms even in relationships that "don't work" but go on and on, both parties are getting something out of it whether they realize it or not. What's JW getting out of it? She continually treats him like shit. What does she get out of it? She likes to feel superior? SHOW ME. I saw none of the answers to those questions in the script.

You argue that BL fans want hugging/kissing/all the time or hatred and abuse on the other hand. I certainly didn't write that, it's not what I want and you're a lazy debater for arguing a point I never made.

Your "don't like=bad writing" insult is something a jerk would write so, you know, fuck you. I guess you're trying to come off sort of above-it-all as it relates to this show and BLs in general. You're the one viewer who "gets it." I guess you need to feel that way so I won't argue. Yes, you are the one.

And NO, if you actually believe that writers and directors don't make huge mistakes and fail to see major problems in their story-telling all the freaking time, even with the biggest budgets and the biggest, most talented actors possible, then you are very naive and don't know much about the film and television world. Major, big-budget films are often full of major plot-holes that no one bothered to take care of, inconsistencies that don't fit the story, bad acting and bad writing. Your assertion that EVERYTHING in a film/series is carefully worked out and is there or not there for a reason is a lovely fantasy and it should be the goal, but it is anything but the common reality.

Sigh...if that's the case, what purpose does this serve the plot? Why would either of them refer to themselves as being in that relationship when they clearly are not? JW also has no care or affection toward HER, other than to ACT as if he does in calling her occasionally. When they meet in person, I think he touched her maybe once or twice. Zero physical expression of affection. Zero kisses or hugs. Zero flirting or sweetness. NOTHING. She doesn't get anything out of the relationship either, so why is either one of them in it?

You seem to just keep saying she doesn't care for him. So...why doesn't he dump her? She's a complete bitch to him. He hangs on but why, he doesn't seem to like her either. Why does she sometimes act like she IS his GF and other times totally blows him off? None of this is explained in the story.

Why are you so cranky? "Vampire Man" would be my own name for the tall, creepy, handsome dude who often wears black and looks like a vampire with his pale complexion, darkly circled eyes and red lips. He's at the center of the story too and if you are pretending to still not know who I'm talking about then I can't help you.

Also you wrote NOTHING to explain why this meticulous, careful character would put the important job of cleaning up the evidence of his crimes in the hands of three characters who are clearly insane, sloppy and not to be trusted to do anything right. "That's what they do...?" That's your explanation? lol But thanks anyway.

hmmm...your reply provides zero information or specifics. Are you saying the weirdly disconnected relationship between the GF/BF is portrayed that way deliberately? OK, I'm willing to believe that if there's some evidence that explains the purpose of this strange relationship. In what way does their odd disconnection serve the plot line even though everybody, including themselves, keeps referring to them as "GF/BF.?" What is the evidence that the relationship is portrayed this way deliberately? WHY would it be? WHAT'S the whole point? Is it some kind of social commentary? If so, could you expound on that a bit? Thanks! Your comment just swoops in and makes this huge statement and then swoops out without any backup or discussion.

ZERO chemistry, zero affection, zero relationship. I wrote about this above before seeing your comment and I agree completely. The writing, which was excellent in almost every respect, portrayed them as casual friends and it seemed to me that she was kind of a stone-cold bitch from the day he arrived in Seoul. That aspect of the story was just oddly written and directed.

The gay subtext/vibe was definitely there between JW and Vampire Man, but after touching on it fairly explicitly in the last scene of ep 2, it just dropped off the map for the most part. When that scene was repeated at the beginning of ep 3, the pretty direct gay-vibe comment was gone as if it never happened. Without that going anywhere, the whole "Babe" thing just seemed forced and kind of dumb. I wonder if their gay vibe goes further in the original web toon. It would be just like a Korean production to cut that from a series.

AWESOME. LOVED IT. 9/10

About to watch the finale. Love this show, but I am just not believing the central BF/GF thing at all. There is no chemistry, no romance, no affection, no nothing between them. At best they feel like casual friends. For a while I have suspected that given how effective almost every other aspect of this show has been, that there would be some plot device/reason for this, but that doesn't appear to be the case at all. Their scenes are written so poorly, if we are to think of them as lovers, that I am at a loss as to what the writers and director were thinking. We now have Jong U riding to the rescue, like a valiant knight to save his lady-love, and their core relationship is just not there. It feels entirely inauthentic.

At best, he's a good man riding in to save a casual friend who has treated him like shit ever since he got to Seoul, just because he's a decent fellow. And she really has been a stone-cold bitch to him ever since he got to town. They've not had one meal together, spent one night together, gone for one walk hand-in-hand, they've not done anything that couples do. It's the strangest thing. Does anyone else feel this way?

Off to watch the finale!

Don't get why Vampire Man, who does things so carefully, stylishly and methodically, would entrust the difficult and crucial "cleanup work" to such a band of unstable freaks as he has under his command at the residence. It has seemed from the beginning that any one of those loose canons could expose them all at any moment.

But perhaps Vampire Man is simply so insane himself that he doesn't get this as a danger. hmmm...

Just finished episode 8. Am I the only psycho here who kind of wants Jong-U to allow himself to be taken under the wing of the Vampire Man? But then I'm the type who finds himself hoping the murderer in a mystery thriller will get away with it in the end. :P

Is Hell somewhere in the after-life or is it near the center of South Korea in a metropolis called Seoul? Hands-down one of the best thriller/horror shows I've ever seen. Layers upon layers upon layers just keep building with every episode and what I thought I knew I become less sure of all the time.

Lead actor is superb, perfectly cast and perfectly performed. But so are all the supporting players, especially our friendly neighborhood dentist. :D

Weak spot, though god knows this too may turn out to be something I just don't have enough information about yet to understand: Not really buying Jung Ju's relationship with his "girlfriend." I've seen or felt zero intimacy/affection between them and they've barely touched, yet everyone keeps referring to her as his "girlfriend."

I'm starting to suspect something that will turn what I've thought was developing here 180 degrees on its head which wouldn't surprise me, but god I love movies and shows like this. I'm guessing and wondering all the time about everyone and I don't necessarily trust what I've seen with my own eyes to be true.

One quibble: The main character has done two or three things that are plausible only in the world of human behavior inside a thriller/horror show, and that took me out of the story for a few minutes each time. People who are truly scared for their lives, and have reason to be so, don't do things like that.

This series features something I have been wondering more and more with each Korean series or film I have watched over the last couple of years: Is it really a feature of Korean society that people in general, be it family, friends or strangers, treat each other with an assumed belligerence and disrespect? Do they really insult, question and confront each other, always assuming the worst, as the basis of most conversations and relationships? There's this nasty, abrasive, abusive way of talking and needling and demanding recompense over the slightest of slights. Everyone seems so abused by those just above them in the pecking order that they can't wait to turn around and treat those below them in exactly the same way as a means of righting the scales, or maybe even of staying sane. I've noticed this many times and it turns up in other Asian shows too, but not with the regularity you see in in Korea. Over time it is just brutal, and that aspect of inter-human relationships in this show alone leaves me exhausted. I no longer think I've been imagining this, as it seems to be one of the main characters in this show. Vicious hostility as a base point of social interaction doesn't make for a great quality of life.

No wonder South Korea has the highest suicide rate in the developed world.

I bet those aren't the only pair of cheeks Pi has that are soft...

hoo-boy, wtf are you talking about? I didn't "demand" anything. That's just more nonsense in your head. I simply asked what it was that put you off about the fucking kiss. It's not a hostile question though you seem determined to pretend that it is. Seems obvious you either don't know what put you off or for some reason don't want to share what it is. Fine. But please see a psychiatrist or therapist for help with your issues...there are a lot of them.

Just finished watching both parts of this for the second time after about a year. I kept avoiding re-watching it because I remembered how much I ugly-cried the first time round and didn't really want to subject myself to that again. Plus, for some reason I had gotten the idea since the first watch that the movie as a whole was cheesy; not sure where that came from. Sure, there are a few brief moments of cheese, but especially as BLs go, to me this is an epic tale.

Fine acting from all the players, but Wen and Rui as the passion and tragedy-torn lovers at the center of this are outstanding. In my memory I couldn't get why the beautiful Rui as Xie Yan would ever have gone for someone with the less runway-model looks of Wen as Nian. This time I completely and totally got it. It was never about looks in any way shape or form.

If you want an extended movie-length watch with heartbreak, passion, love, character development and two actors who are totally committed to their characters, watch this. The upbeat, thrilling ending, through which I sobbed of course, is almost off-the-charts absurd in its level of implausibility, but the last few moments are worth putting up with how we get there. In cases like this I always wonder why a pro writing team couldn't come up with a better plot device, but oh well...who cares? Overall, to me, this show is one of the all-time great BLs.

Meng Rui's face alone is reason enough to watch. The rest is gravy. :D

I know out there somewhere exists a SAD ending to this flick. I will NEVER watch it.

I just finished watching, and sobbing, through the happy ending version on youtube. Just search Uncontrolled Love 2 happy ending.

Help please: Is there some way on MDL to create a list of actors one wants to follow?