If I am going to keep all the characters: The fight flashback between Liu Yan and Tang Lici at the beginning of…
I'm always plot and characterisation-first approach, because that's when the best results happen. Tsui Hark is one of my favourite directors and producers when it comes to wuxia or xianxia because in the 80s and 90s, he was clear-eyed and very ruthless with his storyline and characters.
That is also why he is iconic in HK film history. His movie "Green Snake" utilises Peking Opera in certain aspects especially for the two lead female characters and one male lead character, and he knew how to convey a good story with many layers. Sadly, the endings were usually tragic for his iconic characters. Luckily, he isn't in charge of the ending here, which I could enjoy. He would have been helpful for the streamlining of this story. He would also have enjoyed the opening, which literally screamed "Theatre" and "Chinese Opera" to me within the first 15 seconds in a captivating manner.
What I suggested for edits would strengthen all characters in the drama. The problem comes when people mistakenly believe more screen-time leads to better-recognised exposure, which isn't the case with a more-mature and picky audience. I also haven't been as ruthless as I should be with my edits, because I'd also be reducing the screentime of at least four other supporting characters and/or possibly doing away with one of them.
The other problem is that this cast is too bloated, so paring would have been a better option. I believe the producers and directors for this drama will learn from all this.
I enjoy Gui Mudan's character song the most. But for overall songs, I like the OP song the most because it makes…
I listened to your cover of ăčąéä¸çŁč˝ăand if you could sound slightly more roguish and lively/impish, it would be a good cover! I have heard the original song and I wasn't too hot on it, but yours adds a certain roguish youthfulness that I would like to be stronger on emphasis for that aspect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcXxbYldRto
Would like to add some more points here;On December 20, 2022, news broke that Qian Jie Mei was going to be adapted…
Thank you for your sympathy. I just returned today to this page, and I am still totally shocked by what you shared.
Nobody starts reading RI or watching RI donghua for romance, so it was so weird when an account that talks about RI can't seem to expand on anything about RI.
[ I call this user as my 'obsessive lover' just the way Liu Yan is obsessed with Tang Lici đ ] - Liu Yan's obsession with Tang Lici is understandable and logical. The sockpuppet clamouring for your attention, after I told them twice on two different days to talk to you? Still hasn't answered you here.
By now, I am seriously doubting they are even a Lin Yun fan, because which Lin Yun fan would make Lin Yun look so bad with such fan behaviour? Someone with severe mental health issues who needs to get professional help is my current conclusion.
I finally finished all episodes and what a ride it was. I usually donât mind whether a drama has a happy ending…
I remembered what you said here, and I have just made a new comment summarising what I would have altered for this drama, after watching it for the second time. Feel free to give your thoughts there too :)
Contributions include underthestars with a very-helpful explainer and hidden-facts thread capped with a general timeline for all 40 episodes, alongside a very useful diagram. See how many nuggets you noticed! Start from the top of the post for the earliest episodes after watching an episode, and work your way down:
Have added your post to my collated forum post for "Group Collective Contributions: Details, trivia, insights…
Heh, I believe your dedication is greater than mine~ Several people have been asking when my review will be out. Should be able to complete it within 8 days XD
I decided to make a post about what I would have restructured within WoF if we 're going to keep all these characters, which I have posted uptop.
Your contributions have been so important, and I am very grateful for your shared efforts too!
Amongst those of us who have finished watching the drama, I would say Luo Yunxi has chemistry with everyone because of his phenomenal acting. There is no romance tag for this drama, and you can ship Tang Lici with anyone. I am a no-romance person for this drama who was satisfied but I also have to confess that even after watching this entire drama a second time, I still believe the strongest chemistry between Tang Lici and two characters is between Luo Yunxi and Jeremy Tsu, plus Luo Yunxi with Fang Yilun.
Fang Yilun plays Liu Yan who is very important to Tang Lici, and Tang Lici has been searching for Liu Yan for four years. If you don't watch, you will be missing some very beautiful moments and lines shared by the two characters across multiple episodes including episodes 2, 27 and 39 (one of their interactions did have my eyebrow twitching). Some tropes that could be seen in danmei are also present here. That is why another user said Yes to you, pertaining to bromance.
There is a user with at least six sockpuppet accounts on this page, and these accounts do their best to drive away people from watching this drama. I would suggest you try watching the drama for yourself :)
If I am going to keep all the characters: The fight flashback between Liu Yan and Tang Lici at the beginning of…
You and I have watched C-Ent for more than twenty years. I simply identified the weakest subplot in there.
Their shared scenes as Gui Mudan and Tang Lici are very compelling, and so are the scenes between Luo Yunxi and Fang Yilun in certain episodes. I confess to a weakness for Gui Mudan with his cat XD
Having rewatched Whispers of Fate a second time in its entirety, here are my thoughts about the two approaches…
If I am going to keep all the characters: The fight flashback between Liu Yan and Tang Lici at the beginning of episode 2 would be shifted to the beginning of episode 19. Episode 2 flashback would be replaced with the flashback of Tang Lici removing Fang Zhouâs heart crystal alongside Liu Yanâs reaction calling Tang Lici a monster.
Later in episode 2 after Jiang Chengâs death whereby screentime for that fight and talking with Tang Lici is reduced, the scene of Liu Yan playing his pipa then includes a brief flashback of how Liu Yan perceives certain details in TCM, before Hua Wuyan enters. All this would understandably minimise any perceptions that Fang Yilun was over-acting as Liu Yan, and justified Liu Yan going berserk and psychotic to have current reactions today against Tang Lici. Removing someoneâs heart in such a manner from a TCM perspective can only be the work of a lunatic, or a monster if that person does it to someone who is his benefactor. All this will not affect Tang Liciâs quick flashback to himself and Liu Yan, after he had fought Jiang Cheng and was talking to Jiang Cheng.
The fight between Jiang Cheng and Tang Lici would be more brutal and ruthlessly ended in a quicker manner but with the same finish. Would not have affected the flashback in episode 6.
Episodes 2 and 5 contain posing I would have reduced in combat and impending combat. Hua Wuyan introducing himself serves a purpose, hence I would retain it, but not in these two fights when the need to maintain a sense of urgent reality within the first eight episodes would enhance this drama so it does not give a sense of dragginess because of these two points.
In episode 6, the flashback of two parts would be retained. But in the first part of the flashback, when Tang Lici claims he doesnât want to learn martial arts, I would alter Fang Zhouâs reply to become the understanding of martial arts plus fully comprehending the importance of seven emotions will be crucial to Tang Lici understanding how to best be Tang Lici while protecting Zhoudi Lou and Shenzhou alongside Fang Zhou himself, Liu Yan and Tang Lici. Liu Yan talking to Hong-guniang in episode 6 would be removed. All this would make the fight in episode 9 between Liu Yan and Tang Lici even more poignant.
Episodes 15 and 16 dedicated a large portion of time to Tang Lici and A-Shui. Tang Lici getting to the Palace of Fallen Jade ASAP by himself via the same route is what I would use, because I will be trading the scenes in episode 15 and 16 for a heartfelt private one-on-one scene between Tang Lici and A-Shui in episode 19 whereby Tang Lici is touched by A-Shui taking a blow from Liu Yan and nearly dying to protect him.
Three scenes of A-Shui feeding her blood to Tang Lici is enough: one when she first aids him, then wakes him up with the blood from her lips while hiding her blood usefulness from Hong-guniang, and then feeds him while he is dreaming and wakes up. When Shui Duopo looks at A-Shuiâs wrist in episode 26, the viewer can see the exact number of markings.
Episode 19 would see a few specific changes, such as Tang Lici not allowing himself to be stabbed by Liu Yan. In this episode, a conversation between A-Shui and Tang Lici is where some of the most cringeworthy lines from A-Shui are fundamentally disruptive to A-Shui as a character, and do not enhance A-Shuiâs earlier scenes where she has memorised details of the ledgers, and spoken to Leader Jiang of the Yanmen sect and Shao Yanping with touching insight. I like my female characters iconic, and iconic doesnât always translate to martial arts or being gifted in the skills of a coroner or having more screentime.
Jeremy Tsu was compellingly enigmatic as Gui Mudan despite heavily-limited screentime, and his scenes were pivotal.
How can A-Shui find Tang Lici faster than Chi Yun, after the battle with Liu Yan? This seemingly makes no sense, given Chi Yunâs qinggong. A-Shui continuously behaving in such a manner for Tang Lici would make any recipient suspicious. Tang Lici knows he hasn't done anything special for A-Shui, and has treated her with suspicion. Why would she keep doing this? At this point in episode 19, it looks to me as if the producers are simply including these details allowing A-Shui to be with Tang Lici to allow a the barest bones of "romance" that ultimately could be easily perceived as one-sided by episode 35. A-Shui's motives for Tang Lici is literally the weakest subplot of the story, and it can only be strengthened if I cut down A-Shui's screentime and show her to be her own person even if she is doing everything under amnesia.
Since Shen Langhun and Chi Yun know A-Shuiâs blood is uniquely helpful to Tang Lici, best to have a scene in episode 18 (just before Tang Lici hits the ice while the end-credits roll) where the sight of Tang Lici falling from the sky has Shen Langhun telling Chi Yun he is going ahead to find Tang Lici and Chi Yun must bring A-Shui, because Tang Lici is likely to be wounded. Shen Langhun finds Liu Yan first, uses his secret technique on him, and Liu Yan breaks free but as a result, goes temporarily berserk and lashes out very cruelly and powerfully. Chi Yun carrying A-Shui arrives, where A-Shui does what is considered impulsive and is just in time to block one of those attacks from Liu Yan, hence she is badly wounded by Liu Yan.
Her jumping into the icy water is impulsive but also looks totally stupid. The example of impulsiveness I would create is sacrificially admirable. After Tang Lici witnesses the full extent of A-Shuiâs protectiveness, he returns to the Palace of Fallen Jade alongside Chi Yun and Shen Langhun. The conversation that happens between Tang Lici and A-Shui in episode 19 then becomes unforgettably memorable because it is fundamentally different.
A-Shui speaks of wanting to protect Tang Lici because she can see how he suffers and keeps people at arms-length, and she decided that she was willing to die to prove that it is possible for someone to care about Tang Lici as a person and not expect anything in return. She also says that after this when she is fully recovered, she will leave so Tang Lici believes in the goodness of people. She believes people are born inherently good (hinting now at possible link with Fang Zhou), and she only wants Tang Lici to stay alive and be happy. This world ie Shenzhou is full of tragedy but also contains beauty, and she hopes he will protect it including people such as Xiao Shi because only he can do so. This is when Tang Lici says he has no interest in saving the world but he will consider what she has said. And no, he says does not want her to leave. If she is happy following him, she can stay by his side.
This would make everything even more poignant, such as the fireworks in episode 29. And strengthen the impact of episode 35, when Tang Lici reads her final letter which hides what she isnât saying about her own sad end. This would also strengthen what could have been between two of them.
Would also have included A-Shui quoting two lines of a short poem or a fitting idiom, before claiming she is Fang Zhou's sister, when talking to Tang Lici in episode 33. In episode 34, when Tang Lici tells Gui Mudan that A-Shui looked at Tang Lici with hate, I did not expect to burst out laughing. This is because when Lin Yun was talking to Luo Yunxi, she looked petulant IMHO. Lin Yun's acting weakness needs to be camouflaged here, whereby two lines would create a sense of Lin Yun intentionally hiding things from Tang Lici while coldly being in full control of herself (and depending on what she says, would truly remind Tang Lici of Fang Zhou before she verbally twists the knife), and then I would be more convinced that A-Shui makes Tang Lici believe that A-Shui hates him. This would also create a better contrast to emphasise the importance of her letter in episode 35.
A-Shui having that big moment with Tang Lici was underwhelming for me due to the micro-emoting I was looking forward to from Lin Yun, but did not happen. This sense of being underwhelming was also in the scene of A-Shui talking to Gui Mudan. The VA for Lin Yun was doing the carrying in these monumental scenes.
Flashbacks from Liu Yan would be condensed into the beginning of one episode in episode 20, not stretched across two episodes of 19 and 20.
Episode 21 where Xifang Tao, Fucui and Hong-guniang wait and then talk to Liu Yan would be removed because these scenes do not add to the story. The substory involving Fang Pingzhai behaving as a fortune-teller would also be removed from episodes 21 and 22, because it would be better for his character to have a bit more background in episode 28 when he has entered the Inverted Dream with Puzhu. All this is replaced by Tang Lici sharing a moment with Zhong Chunji improving her skills when he chances upon her practising swordplay and telling her something which touches her heart, Tang Lici having brief different interactions with various Sword Masters to showcase their unique personalities, and A-Shui wanting to make dumplings with Xiao Shi while also successfully getting Tang Lici to join in.
This would also make the transition of Zhong Chunji eventually doing certain things to Tang Lici in episode 31 onwards believable, because it was too abrupt for me to believe she ended up liking him so quickly. And enable me to connect with the different Sword Masters as people, before they meet their ends in episode 32.
Wanyu Yuedan may not be able to see, but he knows Tang Lici is in unbearable pain which Tang Lici has been hiding all this while from everyone, ever since episode 1. Drama-Wanyu Yuedan and novel-Wanyu Yuedan possess the traits to able to see what others cannot see (quoting from chapter 40):
There are so many beautiful moments in this drama that are unforgettable, especially Tang Lici looking at the woman he has waited his entire life to meet and never wants to let go. His final thoughts are of her, because she taught him the most beautiful love of all and why, in letting go to truly protect his obsessions that preserved for too long, harmed him and others. Just like his mother, Tang Lici's heart was too kind, but such kindness is also what enabled him to create the best lives for those he loves, and giving all of humanity a chance.
Luo Yunxi is truly phenomenal in this drama. Jeremy Tsu is going to be a difficult villain to top, currently my favourite C-Drama villain of all time. And Qiu Xin Zhi, who was Shao Yanping steadily anchoring everyone he interacted with, for this drama⌠His interactions with his Chunâer strike a chord in my heart, especially his final letter. Fang Yilun really left me with a different sense of his capabilities with this role, and his chemistry with Luo Yunxi did have my eyebrow twitching at times XD At this point, Liu Yan's chemistry with Hong-guniang was also making me think Fang Yilun can set things on fire with anyone, heh.
Treading the line of pleasing three different factions is indeed difficult to take, but the storyline is affected in doing so because such an approach needs more episodes than 40 episodes.
Having one additional entire episode for the Celestial Realm to include Bai Nanzhu would strengthen the connection between Tang Lici and Ye Mo and Ye Mo as an individual, as well as the impact of episode 40. Episodes 36 to 39 need one additional episode to be fleshed out properly and certain flaws addressed.
The stronger second approach to this drama being able to focus fully on Tang Lici mastering comprehension of the seven emotions and enabling everyone to have well-rounded stories connecting to each other, with the same ending within 40 episodes, would be my preferred approach: Remove one character that wouldnât be missed, if she wasnât in the drama ie A-Shui.
[ ETA: After further discussion over the past 24 hours, for the second approach: Also cut out Bai Suche. Reduce screentimes for Yu Furen and Yu Qifeng. ]
As to why, Azure's thread titled "Whispers of Fate: Worldview, Timelines and other details" helpfully expounds on details that I would have wanted to be shown clearly in the drama:
Having rewatched Whispers of Fate a second time in its entirety, here are my thoughts about the two approaches for certain edits I would have made for this drama. Please note that if you have not watched all episodes, spoilers abound in next comment under spoiler tag:
This is definitely one of the dramas that I looked forward to watching, mainly because of the cast, but also because…
It's a very distinct enjoyable drama. If you want to dive deeper into the details of the art, aesthetics and philosophy of Buddhism and Taoism underlying this drama, I recommend TaraVerde's review (in a comment, they also share their links to the three-part expansion of details on reddit): https://kisskh.at/profile/TiaraBella/review/515614
Made a new discussion about the worldview and breakdown of timelines and other details (which were or werenât…
Have added your post to my collated forum post for "Group Collective Contributions: Details, trivia, insights across 40 episodes of "Whispers of Fate":
Always wonderful to see fellow lovers of the drama expounding on details! You, RBF, underthestars, kwanto, TaraVerde and Mizuhira-san have been very helpful.
I'm always happy to add contributions from others as well :)
Azure is correct, when saying you are the female lead. Luo Yunxi is the only actual lead of this drama, if you watch the entire drama and also understand the funding of the creation for this drama from various entities.
There is no romance tag for this drama, even after 40 episodes have aired. This drama was previously described as heroism-focused by at least one of the producers way before this drama aired.
Luo Yunxi's journey to fully understand the seven emotions is the crux of this adventure, whereby he learns and grows and decides how to change his destiny. His character Tang Lici makes friends, learns to cherish people in different ways, and has chemistry with many characters, so you can ship whoever you like with him. And there are scenes of humour in this drama XD
However, in terms of romance, the producers walked a thin line to balance out three factions (including the non-romance faction). If you are willing to use your imagination, it can work. Do note that without using imagination, what has been shown can also be perceived as one-sided.
Azure, I and others have finished watching drama. I am fair in talking about shipping, but romance is not something I can claim unless you search for hints and use your imagination. To claim otherwise would be misleading, because people have expectations when they hear "romance" for a drama.
But if you want to assume a female lead in terms of screentime, that goes to the actress Bao Shang En who plays Zhong Chunji.
Unfortunately, the review has been accidentally deleted. I now share the new review by TaraVerde containing three links to three different sections of art and aesthetics and Buddhism and Taoism with views about the story (which has spoilers). I am very happy to read the thoughts of another viewer who enjoyed Whispers of Fate and also picked up on the theatre and opera aspects of this drama! I quote from the spoiler-free sections:
[ This post is part of a trilogy where I analyse only the cultural and historical artistic aspects, as well as two Eastern philosophical perspectives with strong presence in the drama, without tackling other elements such as wuxia themes, Confucianism, sci-fi inspiration, and so on. The links to the complete three-acts review with images are in the comments. By accident when adding this part, I erased the previous review : Luo Yun Xi and Jeremy Tsu - outstanding.acting
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As we enter this THIRD and last ACT about Buddhism, the framework that gives structure to the whole story, it felt fitting to bring the classical theatre resource where a character steps in at the beginning to set the scene and offer context. Honouring that tradition, Iâll quote the answer that Moâat gives to Jake Sully in the movie Avatar when he asks the Naâvi people to teach him their worldview and wisdom: âIt is hard to fill a cup that is already full.â.....
......at its core, itâs a story that reflects on and questions what it means to be human from a very Chinese perspective, rooted in Chinaâs history while staying in tune with its present. We see that search in every character, although I want to highlight three.
Nothing in this world is perfect, and neither is this drama. Itâs a complex and ambitious project with a distinctive Chinese flavour that can look ordinary and simple on the surface, yet be slow and fast-paced, common and uncommon, all at once. And when we bring in our Western viewpoint, shaped by a Judeo-Christian background or even a modern secular mindset, we really do need to empty our cups first.
For me, the beauty of Whispers of Fate lies in its distinctive Chinese aesthetics, but also in the way it blends Eastern philosophies into its storytelling. In a way, the original title âShui Long Yinâ and its literal translation âWater Dragon Chantâ is the most fitting, as the whole approach of the drama reminds me of those apparently simple tales and legends through which ancient cultures and societies explained the world, what it means to be human and why we are here. ]
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That is also why he is iconic in HK film history. His movie "Green Snake" utilises Peking Opera in certain aspects especially for the two lead female characters and one male lead character, and he knew how to convey a good story with many layers. Sadly, the endings were usually tragic for his iconic characters. Luckily, he isn't in charge of the ending here, which I could enjoy. He would have been helpful for the streamlining of this story. He would also have enjoyed the opening, which literally screamed "Theatre" and "Chinese Opera" to me within the first 15 seconds in a captivating manner.
What I suggested for edits would strengthen all characters in the drama. The problem comes when people mistakenly believe more screen-time leads to better-recognised exposure, which isn't the case with a more-mature and picky audience. I also haven't been as ruthless as I should be with my edits, because I'd also be reducing the screentime of at least four other supporting characters and/or possibly doing away with one of them.
The other problem is that this cast is too bloated, so paring would have been a better option. I believe the producers and directors for this drama will learn from all this.
Chi Yun's song somewhat makes my eyes watery, with how much the song sounds like him and what happened to him in the drama.
I also rewatched Whispers of Fate second time, and I just shared thoughts on what I would have edited for this drama: https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24390284
Nobody starts reading RI or watching RI donghua for romance, so it was so weird when an account that talks about RI can't seem to expand on anything about RI.
[ I call this user as my 'obsessive lover' just the way Liu Yan is obsessed with Tang Lici đ ] - Liu Yan's obsession with Tang Lici is understandable and logical. The sockpuppet clamouring for your attention, after I told them twice on two different days to talk to you? Still hasn't answered you here.
By now, I am seriously doubting they are even a Lin Yun fan, because which Lin Yun fan would make Lin Yun look so bad with such fan behaviour? Someone with severe mental health issues who needs to get professional help is my current conclusion.
Feel free to send me weibo links :)
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24390284
Feel free to add your thoughts there too :)
https://kisskh.at/discussions/755725-shui-long-yin/146760-whispers-of-fate-worldview-timelines-and-other-details
I added it to my forum post titled "Group Collective Contributions: Details, trivia, insights across 40 episodes of "Whispers of Fate":
https://kisskh.at/discussions/755725-shui-long-yin/146454-group-collective-contributions-details-trivia-insights-across-40-episodes-of-whispers-of-fate
Contributions include underthestars with a very-helpful explainer and hidden-facts thread capped with a general timeline for all 40 episodes, alongside a very useful diagram. See how many nuggets you noticed! Start from the top of the post for the earliest episodes after watching an episode, and work your way down:
https://kisskh.at/discussions/755725-shui-long-yin/146048-it-s-all-in-the-detail-whispers-of-fate-explainer-and-hidden-facts-thread
Perhaps try Azure's post or the post by underthestars first?
I decided to make a post about what I would have restructured within WoF if we 're going to keep all these characters, which I have posted uptop.
Your contributions have been so important, and I am very grateful for your shared efforts too!
Fang Yilun plays Liu Yan who is very important to Tang Lici, and Tang Lici has been searching for Liu Yan for four years. If you don't watch, you will be missing some very beautiful moments and lines shared by the two characters across multiple episodes including episodes 2, 27 and 39 (one of their interactions did have my eyebrow twitching). Some tropes that could be seen in danmei are also present here. That is why another user said Yes to you, pertaining to bromance.
There is a user with at least six sockpuppet accounts on this page, and these accounts do their best to drive away people from watching this drama. I would suggest you try watching the drama for yourself :)
Their shared scenes as Gui Mudan and Tang Lici are very compelling, and so are the scenes between Luo Yunxi and Fang Yilun in certain episodes. I confess to a weakness for Gui Mudan with his cat XD
Later in episode 2 after Jiang Chengâs death whereby screentime for that fight and talking with Tang Lici is reduced, the scene of Liu Yan playing his pipa then includes a brief flashback of how Liu Yan perceives certain details in TCM, before Hua Wuyan enters. All this would understandably minimise any perceptions that Fang Yilun was over-acting as Liu Yan, and justified Liu Yan going berserk and psychotic to have current reactions today against Tang Lici. Removing someoneâs heart in such a manner from a TCM perspective can only be the work of a lunatic, or a monster if that person does it to someone who is his benefactor. All this will not affect Tang Liciâs quick flashback to himself and Liu Yan, after he had fought Jiang Cheng and was talking to Jiang Cheng.
The fight between Jiang Cheng and Tang Lici would be more brutal and ruthlessly ended in a quicker manner but with the same finish. Would not have affected the flashback in episode 6.
Episodes 2 and 5 contain posing I would have reduced in combat and impending combat. Hua Wuyan introducing himself serves a purpose, hence I would retain it, but not in these two fights when the need to maintain a sense of urgent reality within the first eight episodes would enhance this drama so it does not give a sense of dragginess because of these two points.
In episode 6, the flashback of two parts would be retained. But in the first part of the flashback, when Tang Lici claims he doesnât want to learn martial arts, I would alter Fang Zhouâs reply to become the understanding of martial arts plus fully comprehending the importance of seven emotions will be crucial to Tang Lici understanding how to best be Tang Lici while protecting Zhoudi Lou and Shenzhou alongside Fang Zhou himself, Liu Yan and Tang Lici. Liu Yan talking to Hong-guniang in episode 6 would be removed. All this would make the fight in episode 9 between Liu Yan and Tang Lici even more poignant.
Episodes 15 and 16 dedicated a large portion of time to Tang Lici and A-Shui. Tang Lici getting to the Palace of Fallen Jade ASAP by himself via the same route is what I would use, because I will be trading the scenes in episode 15 and 16 for a heartfelt private one-on-one scene between Tang Lici and A-Shui in episode 19 whereby Tang Lici is touched by A-Shui taking a blow from Liu Yan and nearly dying to protect him.
Three scenes of A-Shui feeding her blood to Tang Lici is enough: one when she first aids him, then wakes him up with the blood from her lips while hiding her blood usefulness from Hong-guniang, and then feeds him while he is dreaming and wakes up. When Shui Duopo looks at A-Shuiâs wrist in episode 26, the viewer can see the exact number of markings.
Episode 19 would see a few specific changes, such as Tang Lici not allowing himself to be stabbed by Liu Yan. In this episode, a conversation between A-Shui and Tang Lici is where some of the most cringeworthy lines from A-Shui are fundamentally disruptive to A-Shui as a character, and do not enhance A-Shuiâs earlier scenes where she has memorised details of the ledgers, and spoken to Leader Jiang of the Yanmen sect and Shao Yanping with touching insight. I like my female characters iconic, and iconic doesnât always translate to martial arts or being gifted in the skills of a coroner or having more screentime.
Jeremy Tsu was compellingly enigmatic as Gui Mudan despite heavily-limited screentime, and his scenes were pivotal.
How can A-Shui find Tang Lici faster than Chi Yun, after the battle with Liu Yan? This seemingly makes no sense, given Chi Yunâs qinggong. A-Shui continuously behaving in such a manner for Tang Lici would make any recipient suspicious. Tang Lici knows he hasn't done anything special for A-Shui, and has treated her with suspicion. Why would she keep doing this? At this point in episode 19, it looks to me as if the producers are simply including these details allowing A-Shui to be with Tang Lici to allow a the barest bones of "romance" that ultimately could be easily perceived as one-sided by episode 35. A-Shui's motives for Tang Lici is literally the weakest subplot of the story, and it can only be strengthened if I cut down A-Shui's screentime and show her to be her own person even if she is doing everything under amnesia.
Since Shen Langhun and Chi Yun know A-Shuiâs blood is uniquely helpful to Tang Lici, best to have a scene in episode 18 (just before Tang Lici hits the ice while the end-credits roll) where the sight of Tang Lici falling from the sky has Shen Langhun telling Chi Yun he is going ahead to find Tang Lici and Chi Yun must bring A-Shui, because Tang Lici is likely to be wounded. Shen Langhun finds Liu Yan first, uses his secret technique on him, and Liu Yan breaks free but as a result, goes temporarily berserk and lashes out very cruelly and powerfully. Chi Yun carrying A-Shui arrives, where A-Shui does what is considered impulsive and is just in time to block one of those attacks from Liu Yan, hence she is badly wounded by Liu Yan.
Her jumping into the icy water is impulsive but also looks totally stupid. The example of impulsiveness I would create is sacrificially admirable. After Tang Lici witnesses the full extent of A-Shuiâs protectiveness, he returns to the Palace of Fallen Jade alongside Chi Yun and Shen Langhun. The conversation that happens between Tang Lici and A-Shui in episode 19 then becomes unforgettably memorable because it is fundamentally different.
A-Shui speaks of wanting to protect Tang Lici because she can see how he suffers and keeps people at arms-length, and she decided that she was willing to die to prove that it is possible for someone to care about Tang Lici as a person and not expect anything in return. She also says that after this when she is fully recovered, she will leave so Tang Lici believes in the goodness of people. She believes people are born inherently good (hinting now at possible link with Fang Zhou), and she only wants Tang Lici to stay alive and be happy. This world ie Shenzhou is full of tragedy but also contains beauty, and she hopes he will protect it including people such as Xiao Shi because only he can do so. This is when Tang Lici says he has no interest in saving the world but he will consider what she has said. And no, he says does not want her to leave. If she is happy following him, she can stay by his side.
This would make everything even more poignant, such as the fireworks in episode 29. And strengthen the impact of episode 35, when Tang Lici reads her final letter which hides what she isnât saying about her own sad end. This would also strengthen what could have been between two of them.
Would also have included A-Shui quoting two lines of a short poem or a fitting idiom, before claiming she is Fang Zhou's sister, when talking to Tang Lici in episode 33. In episode 34, when Tang Lici tells Gui Mudan that A-Shui looked at Tang Lici with hate, I did not expect to burst out laughing. This is because when Lin Yun was talking to Luo Yunxi, she looked petulant IMHO. Lin Yun's acting weakness needs to be camouflaged here, whereby two lines would create a sense of Lin Yun intentionally hiding things from Tang Lici while coldly being in full control of herself (and depending on what she says, would truly remind Tang Lici of Fang Zhou before she verbally twists the knife), and then I would be more convinced that A-Shui makes Tang Lici believe that A-Shui hates him. This would also create a better contrast to emphasise the importance of her letter in episode 35.
A-Shui having that big moment with Tang Lici was underwhelming for me due to the micro-emoting I was looking forward to from Lin Yun, but did not happen. This sense of being underwhelming was also in the scene of A-Shui talking to Gui Mudan. The VA for Lin Yun was doing the carrying in these monumental scenes.
Flashbacks from Liu Yan would be condensed into the beginning of one episode in episode 20, not stretched across two episodes of 19 and 20.
Episode 21 where Xifang Tao, Fucui and Hong-guniang wait and then talk to Liu Yan would be removed because these scenes do not add to the story. The substory involving Fang Pingzhai behaving as a fortune-teller would also be removed from episodes 21 and 22, because it would be better for his character to have a bit more background in episode 28 when he has entered the Inverted Dream with Puzhu. All this is replaced by Tang Lici sharing a moment with Zhong Chunji improving her skills when he chances upon her practising swordplay and telling her something which touches her heart, Tang Lici having brief different interactions with various Sword Masters to showcase their unique personalities, and A-Shui wanting to make dumplings with Xiao Shi while also successfully getting Tang Lici to join in.
This would also make the transition of Zhong Chunji eventually doing certain things to Tang Lici in episode 31 onwards believable, because it was too abrupt for me to believe she ended up liking him so quickly. And enable me to connect with the different Sword Masters as people, before they meet their ends in episode 32.
Wanyu Yuedan may not be able to see, but he knows Tang Lici is in unbearable pain which Tang Lici has been hiding all this while from everyone, ever since episode 1. Drama-Wanyu Yuedan and novel-Wanyu Yuedan possess the traits to able to see what others cannot see (quoting from chapter 40):
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24289410
Please note the differences between the drama and novel here, which Azure expounded upon:
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24292802
There are so many beautiful moments in this drama that are unforgettable, especially Tang Lici looking at the woman he has waited his entire life to meet and never wants to let go. His final thoughts are of her, because she taught him the most beautiful love of all and why, in letting go to truly protect his obsessions that preserved for too long, harmed him and others. Just like his mother, Tang Lici's heart was too kind, but such kindness is also what enabled him to create the best lives for those he loves, and giving all of humanity a chance.
Luo Yunxi is truly phenomenal in this drama. Jeremy Tsu is going to be a difficult villain to top, currently my favourite C-Drama villain of all time. And Qiu Xin Zhi, who was Shao Yanping steadily anchoring everyone he interacted with, for this drama⌠His interactions with his Chunâer strike a chord in my heart, especially his final letter. Fang Yilun really left me with a different sense of his capabilities with this role, and his chemistry with Luo Yunxi did have my eyebrow twitching at times XD At this point, Liu Yan's chemistry with Hong-guniang was also making me think Fang Yilun can set things on fire with anyone, heh.
Treading the line of pleasing three different factions is indeed difficult to take, but the storyline is affected in doing so because such an approach needs more episodes than 40 episodes.
Having one additional entire episode for the Celestial Realm to include Bai Nanzhu would strengthen the connection between Tang Lici and Ye Mo and Ye Mo as an individual, as well as the impact of episode 40. Episodes 36 to 39 need one additional episode to be fleshed out properly and certain flaws addressed.
The stronger second approach to this drama being able to focus fully on Tang Lici mastering comprehension of the seven emotions and enabling everyone to have well-rounded stories connecting to each other, with the same ending within 40 episodes, would be my preferred approach: Remove one character that wouldnât be missed, if she wasnât in the drama ie A-Shui.
[ ETA: After further discussion over the past 24 hours, for the second approach: Also cut out Bai Suche. Reduce screentimes for Yu Furen and Yu Qifeng. ]
As to why, Azure's thread titled "Whispers of Fate: Worldview, Timelines and other details" helpfully expounds on details that I would have wanted to be shown clearly in the drama:
https://kisskh.at/discussions/755725-shui-long-yin/146760-whispers-of-fate-worldview-timelines-and-other-details
I also added my take of certain alterations I would have made, after watching this drama a second time: https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24390284
https://kisskh.at/discussions/755725-shui-long-yin/146454-group-collective-contributions-details-trivia-insights-across-40-episodes-of-whispers-of-fate
Always wonderful to see fellow lovers of the drama expounding on details! You, RBF, underthestars, kwanto, TaraVerde and Mizuhira-san have been very helpful.
I'm always happy to add contributions from others as well :)
There is no romance tag for this drama, even after 40 episodes have aired. This drama was previously described as heroism-focused by at least one of the producers way before this drama aired.
Luo Yunxi's journey to fully understand the seven emotions is the crux of this adventure, whereby he learns and grows and decides how to change his destiny. His character Tang Lici makes friends, learns to cherish people in different ways, and has chemistry with many characters, so you can ship whoever you like with him. And there are scenes of humour in this drama XD
However, in terms of romance, the producers walked a thin line to balance out three factions (including the non-romance faction). If you are willing to use your imagination, it can work. Do note that without using imagination, what has been shown can also be perceived as one-sided.
Azure, I and others have finished watching drama. I am fair in talking about shipping, but romance is not something I can claim unless you search for hints and use your imagination. To claim otherwise would be misleading, because people have expectations when they hear "romance" for a drama.
But if you want to assume a female lead in terms of screentime, that goes to the actress Bao Shang En who plays Zhong Chunji.
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24271760
Unfortunately, the review has been accidentally deleted. I now share the new review by TaraVerde containing three links to three different sections of art and aesthetics and Buddhism and Taoism with views about the story (which has spoilers). I am very happy to read the thoughts of another viewer who enjoyed Whispers of Fate and also picked up on the theatre and opera aspects of this drama! I quote from the spoiler-free sections:
[ This post is part of a trilogy where I analyse only the cultural and historical artistic aspects, as well as two Eastern philosophical perspectives with strong presence in the drama, without tackling other elements such as wuxia themes, Confucianism, sci-fi inspiration, and so on. The links to the complete three-acts review with images are in the comments.
By accident when adding this part, I erased the previous review :
Luo Yun Xi and Jeremy Tsu - outstanding.acting
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As we enter this THIRD and last ACT about Buddhism, the framework that gives structure to the whole story, it felt fitting to bring the classical theatre resource where a character steps in at the beginning to set the scene and offer context. Honouring that tradition, Iâll quote the answer that Moâat gives to Jake Sully in the movie Avatar when he asks the Naâvi people to teach him their worldview and wisdom: âIt is hard to fill a cup that is already full.â.....
......at its core, itâs a story that reflects on and questions what it means to be human from a very Chinese perspective, rooted in Chinaâs history while staying in tune with its present. We see that search in every character, although I want to highlight three.
Nothing in this world is perfect, and neither is this drama. Itâs a complex and ambitious project with a distinctive Chinese flavour that can look ordinary and simple on the surface, yet be slow and fast-paced, common and uncommon, all at once. And when we bring in our Western viewpoint, shaped by a Judeo-Christian background or even a modern secular mindset, we really do need to empty our cups first.
For me, the beauty of Whispers of Fate lies in its distinctive Chinese aesthetics, but also in the way it blends Eastern philosophies into its storytelling. In a way, the original title âShui Long Yinâ and its literal translation âWater Dragon Chantâ is the most fitting, as the whole approach of the drama reminds me of those apparently simple tales and legends through which ancient cultures and societies explained the world, what it means to be human and why we are here. ]
Check out this review here: https://kisskh.at/profile/TiaraBella/review/515614