jpny01

I think Wang is just as narcissistic and manipulative as his mother, just less melodramatic about it. He's announced his decision and decided he'll move into In's house and be his lover wihout getting In's opinion on the life that Wang has chosen for him. It's youthful enthusiasm, but for Mol it's an echo of intense trauma for her. Think about what she's been given to process all at once. "My son is gay and wants to move across the country to be with a 45 year old man who I lost my husband to."

I don't think there are any villains here.

It's not the same pattern, though - Siam and In were a year apart in age, not 25 years. It's a totally different situation with totally different considerations. If I were 45 with a 20 year old, I would know people at that age change a lot and don't fully know what they want or who they are - what if the relationship isn't what he wants in 5 years? Also, 45 and 20 might work, but what about 65 and 40? 75 and 50?

I'd also be worried about my own feelings. Am I reliving what I lost and projecting onto Siam's son? Do I love him, or do I love the shadow of Siam that he is? Can I keep up with someone that young? Or will he exhaust me and grow bored of me?

I don't think it was ambiguous at all - I think it was just meant to show that they're more comfortable with each other. In wouldn't even let Wang kiss him - there's no way he would have let him poke him. And do you think after all the sexual tension they've built up between them that they would do that offscreen ambiguously? It doesn't fit the characters or the themes of the show at all. In would be wracked with guilt if he'd done it, and Wang would hav thrown it in Mol's face at the dinner. I'm 100% certain they did not. Remember, this is not a BL, and almost all men sleep shirtless (at least in warm weather), not dressed for a Siberian winter like in BLs.

I'm seeing a lot of harsh words for Mol, and I thing there's a lot of oversimplifying and lack of empathy here.

Yes, of course she's a narcissist. But what is Wang? He's decided on In's future without even getting In's opinion, let alone his consent, and he didn't just tell his mother, he fired a cannon into her face.

Let's see what Mol had to process in an instant. Her son is gay and wants to move across the country to be with a 45 year old man he's in love with who she lost her husband to. I mean, what a bitch, right? She should be able to take that in and smile and say "whatever makes you happy, dear."

Both Mol and In are 100% right to doubt that Wang is really in love, for the reasons Mol outlined and also because Wang has known In for a few days and is 20. That's not to say he isn't in love with In, but it is an extremely legitiate doubt.

There is a problem with the casting (but not the acting!) in that Nike is 34, so it's easy to view In and Wang as a no-brainer, but he's more than twice Wang's age, and if he looked the 45 that his character is, that would necessarily affect our perceptions. Sure, maybe a 20-year old can be happy witha 45-year old, but what about in 20 years, when In is 65? Or 30 years when Wang is still a vital man and In is 75?

In realistically doesn't have a lot of time or chances to find love - what if he burns off the last embers of his youth on someone who will inevitably change a lot and possibly - even probably - leave him?

This is such a complex and artfully written story, with fully drawn and realized characters played by very skilled actors - this is not a BL with stock characters, Mol is not the 2D female villain character, Wang and In are not destined for each other, and there's no assurance that they'll live happily ever after.

So why do we want to try to squeeze them into stock characters?

Mam shined today - it was quite something when Wang shocked her into dropping her grand persona and we saw the real and vulnerable person underneath, if only for a moment. If any one of these three couldn't keep up with the other two, this wouldn't work and would degenerate into melodrama. What a masterpiece.

The image of the three on the bench, Mol holding In's hand and Wang's pinky touching his other hand was like a painting that should be in a museum, like a lot of the shots in this. There better not have a tragic ending or I will burn things down. But I don't think there will be - the themes of the show don't point in that direction, and a tragic ending would destroy everyone, not give everyone second chances. But it might be bittersweet, so be prepared.

I think that's a rather severe oversimplication. First of all, Wang has known In for a few days - so I don't think it's at all outrageous for Mol to feel that it can't be love. Second, Wang absolutely smashed her in the face with all this - if you want to talk about selfish and narcissistic, he's just as bad as she is. And third, he's decided to be with In and he hasn't even asked for In's opinion on the matter. So let's not pretend that Mol is some 2D monster and Wang is a saint.

Of course it's wrong for Mol to want to make him "normal again". My mother had even worse things to say about it when I told her. When you come out to your parent, their child dies and is replaced with a new one - you can't expect 20 years of their dreams for you to dissipate in a day. It's a lot to process, and Mol also has to deal with her fears that a pattern is being repeated.

And finally, the casting is a bit of a deception because Nike is only 34 - but In is in his mid 40s, more than twice Wang's age.

Absoluely. This is not a BL with stock characters, and Mol is not the villainess.

Did who sleep with whom? If you mean In and Wang, then absolutely not. If you mean In and Siam, I don't think so but am not sure.

He said that with Wang he felt like he was with Siam again. That's a fairly firm admission. The question is if he can deal wih it. This is where they run into a problem with the casting. The actor playing In is 34, so it seems like a no-brainer to us. But the character is 10 years older than that. That's a huge age difference.

There's something missing here - I can't quite place it. It's not bad, and the camera work is distinctly above-average, but it's leaving me cold. I think maybe there's too much dialog and minor things that happen that don't drive the story forward, like when minor characters are discussing what to have for lunch. Unless it's important to the plot, we really don't need to know what they're planning to have for lunch, especially because we'll see it when they eat.

Also, there's something off about the main pair - Fahlan bullies Sher in a non-sensual way, so it doesn't generate any chemistry. Compare that to Phayu's bullying of Rain in Love In the Air. Fahlan's dialog isn't clever or subtle, it sounds like things a porn character would say. Fahlan is a narcissistic bully, which doesn't make him very appealing - by Ep 3 I feel like we should have seen some attractive qualities in him, seeing as he's the main character and all.

I'll give an example of too much talking: When Tap finds Ping, Ping asks how he found him, and Tap says that Ping once told him the library is quiet and he likes to go there when he's upset. That actually ruins it. The point is that Tap knows Ping very well and that's shown to us by his knowing where he is in the first place. We don't need to be told the specific reason he knows.

Or the meeting to discuss details of managing a play. Riveting. And there's a lot of flashback and people talking to themselves.

Maybe the problem is a poor adaptation of a novel - whoever wrote the screenplay stuck too close to it so is doing too much telling and not relying on showing, which is even more important when you're dealing with a visual medium.

I wish Tar was in a BL story - he is seriously cute. Or maybe he'll get a "fake" boyfriend to appeal to Annoying Fujoshi?

I don't see how Talay is a nun. He doesn't feed rats to snakes in class like Sister Angela or threaten us with eternal damnation if we don't wash our hands after peeing (in case they touched the Untouchable, although it didn't seem that untouchable to Father Don). It would acually make the story 1,000 times more interesting if he were a nun.

He's more like a younger sister out of a bad knock-off of a Jane Austen novel.

I had pancakes this morning - better than nothing, I guess.

I'm starving and I'm considering robbing a bakery. Your user name isn't helping.

LOL.

There's a lot WE don't like on a national level too. We're like two decks of cards shuffled together that don't match at all and that we wish the "wrong" deck could be picked out of the pile and set on fire.

At its best, American culture is cosmopolitan and dynamic - at it's worst, it elects orange presidents.

If it were a different actor with less ability we'd all be itching to jump into our screens and slap Eiw silly. Somehow he pulls it off - but it's still frustrating to be stuck in this endless loop for 7 episodess - I think it could have been covered faster and left more time for post-Cake and returned-Cake life.

I think Earth is doing a great job too - if he were a lesser actor I think his character would be insufferable. My issue with Eiw is that he's written to be too weak and dependent, which I feel they're conflating with effeminacy, and being weak and dependent is his only character trait.

I'm spoiled because my job has always involved a lot of international travel and I don't have to worry about a phone bill, but you're absolutely right, and it's probably even worse in some foreign countries.

I think you must be right - if they were just trying to show us Eiw is clueless and useless, they've already AMPLY demonstrated this - I suspect Eiw will be close to Sand when Cake gets back which will be a big problem for him. Eiw and Sand may even be involved.

I think a mistake here is they cast actors that don't contrast - and I'm trying to think of cases where that's worked in the past and haven't really come up with anything - but then the fact that they don't constrast supports your argument.

I was going to say that they haven't really been in anything, then looked it up and see that Sea was in 55:15 and Jimmy in Enchante and I don't remember either of them , which again supports you. I do remember Jimmy in Bad Buddy where he was quite good, so he can at least do anger well.

Anyway, whatever the reason, there's no spark.

Sometimes couples win over the audience because they are written well in an otherwise awful series. Oxygen was as bland and irritating as is achievable, but Phu & Kao were well-written, and in Puppy Honey Off & Gun's roles were reasonably well-written too - plus they had the benefit of not being in it enough to be tiresome. Probably in a minority, I didn't feel anything with them in Theory of Love - and I think a lot of that was writing, which seems to be more important to me than it is to many or most people.

If feels like you're deliberately missing my point. The problem isn't that Eiw doesn't have MANY ambitions or interests, it's that he has NONE, and more than that, his character isn't written with any characteristics except to be weak and dependent. There seems to me to be an equasion between feminine and weak that is problemmatic - and endemic to BL with a few recent exceptions of which this series isn't one.

And is there a reason why discussing this raises that much hostility in you? I don't get it - these are fictional characters, not real people.

There was somehing about that bothering me, but it was hard to put a finger on because the acting was so good, but I think you put a finger on it.

Maybe the point is that Eiw can't grow and even regresses when he's with Cake. This series is going to make me want to break things if Eiw doesn't mature and grow after Cake leaves. If they just relapse into their codependent hamster wheel it will be a letdown. But I don't think that will happen.