jpny01

I didn't care for it. It started well, and then almost all the run time was chewed up by yet another pathetic effeminate gay character staring lasciviously at hot boys as the "comic" relief. It's not funny. I'll give it one episode to flesh him out as a character, or I'm out. BL is starting to get boring with the same tropes over, and over, and over, and over... the Filipines has come out with some of the best -written BLs ever, and yet we have this regressive thing. At least Star finally figured out how to do sound.

I'll never be able to look at Darryl in another role without thinking he's going to kill everyone. But the whole family has to have sex with him first.

It depends on the motivation. Usually it's because being gay is unacceptable - that's why the bottom is so often forced - it's less morally questionable to sexually assault someone than to pursue and enjoy bottoming. ("you're only gay if you bottom" being a common attitude in heavily patriarchal cultures). The same applies to a lot of straight drama for female characters.

If you're a man and like a man, you're not necessarily gay, but you're not straight, either. Saying "I'm not gay" is homophobic. "I still also like women" is fine, or "I don't know" or "it doesn't matter". Even "All I know is that I'm in love with Muren."

In this particular series, it appears to be largely formulaic, altough note that the bottom was coerced here too, and again, only the more femine and physically weak person can be the bottom. It would be thrilling if Muren is the "1", but I think we all knew from the first 3 seconds of Ep 1 that was never going to happen.

This trope also perpetuates the extremely dangerous idea that m/m relations is a choice, or that gay men can "turn" straight men if they just try hard enough. Acceptance of gays is much lower in Asia than the West, and the idea that it's a choice is much, much higher. Except, notably, in the Philippines, which has a very high tolerance level - and is most likely to produce BLs with gay characters (although Japan is close behind in at least tolerance).

The best Filipino BLs are hard to beat - in my mind only ITSAY and maybe 1,000 Stars are a match for them, and there are a lot of interesting passion projects with extremely low budgets that I enjoy (especially when Royce Cabrera is in them). There are also a lot of truly awful series, and I hope the success of shows like Gameboys & Gaya Sa Pelikula inspire more on the higher end.

It's not that different for TOATS. I didn't like eps 8 & 9 because it strayed from the story unnecessarily and threw in a load of silly and implausible crises and miscommunication. Other than that I thought the series was perfect. So it's "merely" a 9 instead of a 10 for me.

He did say it - the line was "the reason I've been avoiding you is I can't stop thinking about you that night - I can't forget how you were trapped in passion (i.e. overdosed on rape drugs where he chose to watch him masturbate all night instead of calling emergency services). That IS giving in to your own desires. Mu Ren could have died, and incidentally, watching someone masturbate is a sex act, and Mu Ren was far more incapacitated than Xing Si was.

Mu Ren also moved away from Li Cheng several times and was repulsed by being licked. I'm not particularly bothered by all this, but it's intensely hypocritical for anyone to complain about Yong Jie and not Li Cheng. Mu Ren has said "no" many, many times - Xing Si has never said "no."

Yes, gay men are always struggling to come out. That is not what's happening here. This is one of the stock and homphobic yaoi tropes that you hate (except when you don't.) Neither of these guys is going to end up gay - they are straight guys who fall in love with reach other and have never had and never will have an attration to any other man. That is motivated by homophobia.

And on the subject of tropes, despite Mu Ren being stronger and more together, he is automatically being made into the bottom because he's whispy and weaker physically. Another surrender to formula and stereotypes.

I totally agree on both counts.

What I mean is if the BL audience will watch censored shows just as avidly as actual BL, then what is the motivation to change anything? There is none. The only lever that works is financial. Gay rights is where it is in the USA due to money. Corporations can't afford to lose lgbtq+ employees and customers, and so they refuse to do business in places that discriminate, which forces those places to change. It's taking the long view - short-term pain leads to long-term gain.

It's really more like I'm getting tired of the same four cliches over and over and over. Also, in the case of "I'm not gay, I just like__________ they could just not say anything at all. Let's not get to the point where we're claiming BL belongs to women - it doesn't. If it can avoid irritating a large portion of it viewership (including a lot of women) by just saying nothing, why not do that? In this case, it was "I'm not like THAT" which implies there's something wrong with being gay. If the trope weren't inherently homophobic, it would be fine, but it is.

Because it's cute? It probably has nothing to do with the director - most likely the marketing dept.

If they panned down and it turns out they're not wearing anything below the waist I would agree, but if they were at the beach in swimming suits frolicking, would anyone care? Boys often don't have shirts on.

May I ask if you come from a culture where this is perhaps more uncommon than it is elsewhere? I'm trying to understand the objection, but I can't see it.

I'm not too big to admit you were right and I was wrong.

Things can change fast in China. If BL continues to be a thing and makes money, it will suddenly be allowed. That's why I don't believe in watching bromances that were written as BLs - if you patronize them, they'll make money, and nobody will see the need for BLs.

I thought Xing Si said his 30th birthday is coming up, but "late 20s" is probably enough to sum up where they are.

I think Yong Jie did something wrong, but not rape, which would have to have Xing Si be incapacitated, and he wasn't. What he did is still terrible - it doesn't matter if Xing Si wanted him (which he obviously does), what's important is he did not want to pursue those feelings and Yong Jie knew that and manipulated him, which is a bad violation of trust. But he's also 20 and never been in love before, so redeemable and forgivable - if he realizes what he's doing and tries to change. I try to block out how I behaved the first time I was in love - I never did THAT, but I was a totaly idiot.

I think the actors are quite good, but the writing makes Li Cheng and Mu Ren's characters so inconsistent that it's hard to connect to them. Xing Si and Yong Jie are more consistent and their actors better, but their storyline is stalled and getting boring.

I agree completely.

She's the only fujoshi who doesn't annoy me at all. She was a little cartoonish at the beginning, but not as much as Li Cheng and Mu Ren. Now she's just a supportive friend.

She wasn't into him, she was pretending to for a minute to demonstrate to him that he has no feelings for her but is stuck on Mu Ren.

I'm all for the "toxic and inappropriate" - what is irritating is when everyone finds one story toxic and inappropriate but somehow fails to notice that the other one is even more toxic and inappropriate because they like the couple better. If I have to listen to everyone repeatedly complain about Yong Jie, then nobody can tell me Li Cheng is any better.

Li Cheng was totally wrong. That was unambiguous sexual assault. If you put a woman in Mu Ren's role, it would be extremely disturbing. Everyone here is romanticising it and missing the not-to-subtle point the series is making that just because it's two men doesn't make it acceptable.

We don't know if he's in the hospital. If he only fainted, they would keep him for observation and send him home in the morning.

If Dad really had a serious heart attack (it would have to be serious to pass out like that), then hiding it is completely ridiculous - actually it's unforgivable.